partymember57
Gadabout Pipsqueak
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Posts: 126
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Post by partymember57 on Apr 22, 2016 17:52:41 GMT
Oops, my mistake on the character lists. I totally ignored the OP.
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quixoticTokki
Void
baby gangsta
Posts: 702
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Post by quixoticTokki on Apr 22, 2016 19:39:56 GMT
too many names and why the fuck is crowbar and clubs deuce and people like that even on the list what are you talking about clubs deuce is wonderful
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 22, 2016 19:49:54 GMT
too many names and why the fuck is crowbar and clubs deuce and people like that even on the list The reasoning is explained in the opening post: Now you're probably asking yourself how I chose those characters. Was it arbitrarily? Well, not completely. First of all, every character who was in the previous tier list was included in this one. That means all 8 human kids, 12 beta trolls, 2 cherubs and the 2 more important alpha trolls. Next, the remaining 12 characters correpond to all Homestuck characters who got to Round 2 of MSPA Madness 2016. I don't exactly agree with the method (and have expressed this in a previous post), but there you go.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2016 19:57:32 GMT
The reasoning is explained in the opening post: i understand the reasoning but it's stupid and it makes it so there's too many names and half the new characters aren't even important enough for me to have a real opinion on. like how the fuck am i supposed to compare crowbar, who's a very minor character with zero character development, to a character like dave who is a main character who has had lots of time spent developing his personality
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Post by Neptz on Apr 22, 2016 20:49:07 GMT
The reasoning is explained in the opening post: i understand the reasoning but it's stupid and it makes it so there's too many names and half the new characters aren't even important enough for me to have a real opinion on. like how the fuck am i supposed to compare crowbar, who's a very minor character with zero character development, to a character like dave who is a main character who has had lots of time spent developing his personality While I dislike how blunt you are being, I agree that a lot of those characters are hard to form a opinion on without much exposure time. Hell, Crowbar was dead before he was even introduced!
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Post by flagellumVagueness on Apr 22, 2016 21:30:28 GMT
well, I'm pretty sure most of Crowbar's (albeit meager) popularity comes from this, which, being written by Hussie himself, can be pretty much considered canon.
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Post by drifloon on Apr 23, 2016 12:11:29 GMT
I've got to agree the reasoning behind the new additions is pretty thin. Stuff like including Clubs Deuce but not Diamonds Droog just feels so haphazard. I get that using the torunament results is meant to make it seem a little less arbitrary than just picking some of the more relevant/popular characters by your own judgment, but in effect the tournament results ARE basically arbitrary as people have explained, so it's not really any better IMO.
But here's my attempt at a ranking anyway. I think a lot of my opinions have changed since the last thread. Karkat's gone down a lot in my estimation since, while I love him a lot in Act 5, I find it kind of hard to think of even a single time I really felt invested in him for the entirety of Act 6, which is pretty bad. Looking back over the alpha kids' arcs again has made Jake rise to near the top of my list - I just find myself appreciating him more and more, and while I hate the lack of a resolution for him in the ending, it doesn't make me love the character any less. Vriska has also gone down a little because of how uncomfortable her post-retcon arc turned out in the end, much to my disappointment. The rest is more or less the same as before, with some minor shuffling around.
Dirk Davesprite Dave Jake Vriska Rose Aranea Kanaya Jane Jade Terezi Roxy Karkat Jasprosesprite Davepetasprite Autoresponder Doc Scratch Wayward Vagabond Peregrine Mendicant Jack Noir Meenah Calliope Eridan Equius Feferi Aradia John Tavros Nepeta Sollux Crowbar Andrew Hussie Dad Clubs Deuce Caliborn Gamzee
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 23, 2016 16:24:30 GMT
Well guys I tried. There are people who like every single character in Homestuck but I can't include those because it would be ridiculously hard to rank. And with all the minor characters and alt-selves that's kind of silly. Last thread I had to argue with people who wanted to bring Cronos Ampora back and people eho wanted to be able to rank WV and PM, beause they are more likable and important than Gamzee and Eridan who are mainstays in the list.
So I wanted to bring different characters, but had to draw tbe fucking line somewhere. I figure anyone who won Round 1 of MSPAM is probably liked enough by a big enough part of the fandom, and unlikely to be stuck at the bottom (like what happened to the aloha trolls in the tier list 2, and that sucked). Also I draw the line there because it gives us a number of characters that is not too high. It is arbitrary but it is the best way I found to do something different (otherwise what's even the point) and throw a nod to the fans of those side characters.
Of course comparing some of those characters (like Dave vs Crowbar) can be kind of silly but it all depends on what criteria you use. I find Crowbar to be a lot more likable than some chars who actually have more development.
Sorry if I can't please everyone, I'm doing the best I can.
Also Aradia was also dead before she was even introduced.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 23, 2016 16:46:30 GMT
Well guys I tried. There are people who like every single character in Homestuck but I can't include those because it would be ridiculously hard to rank. And with all the minor characters and alt-selves that's kind of silly. Last thread I had to argue with people who wanted to bring Cronos Ampora back and people eho wanted to be able to rank WV and PM, beause they are more likable and important than Gamzee and Eridan who are mainstays in the list. So I wanted to bring different characters, but had to draw tbe fucking line somewhere. I figure anyone who won Round 1 of MSPAM is probably liked enough by a big enough part of the fandom, and unlikely to be stuck at the bottom (like what happened to the aloha trolls in the tier list 2, and that sucked). Also I draw the line there because it gives us a number of characters that is not too high. It is arbitrary but it is the best way I found to do something different (otherwise what's even the point) and throw a nod to the fans of those side characters. Of course comparing some of those characters (like Dave vs Crowbar) can be kind of silly but it all depends on what criteria you use. I find Crowbar to be a lot more likable than some chars who actually have more development. Sorry if I can't please everyone, I'm doing the best I can. Also Aradia was also dead before she was even introduced. Correct, but we saw her spirit talking to people and being a active participant in the story where Crowbar only appeared in the Scratch intermission(?) for the first time.
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imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
Meet the Meme Team
Posts: 633
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Post by imglasses on Apr 23, 2016 16:50:27 GMT
What are you guys talking about, Crowbar is great, he was higher than most of the characters on my list. Like flagellum said, this made him a lot more popular, and Hussie wrote it so it's essentially canon. And there was Crowbar's sarcastic presence later on when Slick took control of the Felt. Yes it's arbitrary, but there's no way to do it in a way that isn't arbitrary without including every character, and it's better to base it off of popular opinion rather than personal opinion.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 23, 2016 16:57:47 GMT
It's just very hard to make the list when half of the characters I'm not exactly interested in. It would be better if it was just the 8 kids, the 12 trolls and the 2 cherubs (maybe WV, PM and jack noir, plus the pre-scratch trolls, although nobody really likes them)
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Post by drifloon on Apr 23, 2016 17:09:15 GMT
I sort of wonder if, if the aim is to do it by popularity, it would be better to hold a poll of which characters people would like added to the list or something? Like, assume the 8 kids + 12 beta trolls + 2 cherubs + 2 relevant alpha trolls are a given, then put all the other reasonable candidates (sprites, carapaces etc) in a poll and people can tick all the ones they'd like to see. Then add the ones that get the most votes. I don't know, just an idea.
I actually don't think the current lineup is that bad, but Clubs Deuce and Crowbar do feel like particularly weird additions. I'm sure they have fans, but so do a ton of other side characters and I wouldn't really say those two are the most popular of the peripheral cast by any significant margin at all, or I don't have that impression anyway. Sorry if our complaining about it is making you feel like your work is unappreciated though! I really like the thread and it's great to get a gauge of how people feel about the cast, but the lineup at present really does feel kind of wonky and inconsistent at this point.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 23, 2016 20:50:51 GMT
I'm pretty uncomfortable with how Jasprosesprite^2 and Davepetasprite^2 are present in this poll, seeing as gauging them is also gauging Rose, Davesprite and Nepeta who are also in this poll. I think it's easier to gauge characters themselves instead of their combinations together, so this is a pretty hard choice for me. It's interesting to see how my perception of the characters has changed since last time I voted. This is my ranking now: John Dave Karkat Terezi Jade Peregrine Mendicant Kanaya Vriska Rose Wayward Vagabond Roxy Dad Tavros Jack Noir Jane Jake Davepetasprite Equius Nepeta Aradia Dirk Caliborn Meenah Calliope Jasprosesprite Doc Scratch Eridan Gamzee Aranea Davesprite Feferi Sollux Autoresponder Andrew Hussie Crowbar Clubs Deuce In groups because why not:
The Absolute Fucking Best Tier: John Dave Karkat Terezi Jade Peregrine Mendicant
The Pretty Damn Awesome Tier: Kanaya Vriska Rose Wayward Vagabond Roxy
The Gotta Love These Guys Tier: Dad Tavros Jack Noir Jane Jake
The Pretty Cool Characters Tier: Davepetasprite Equius Nepeta Aradia Dirk Caliborn Meenah Calliope Jasprosesprite Doc Scratch
The I Like These Characters Tier: Eridan Gamzee Aranea Davesprite Feferi Sollux Autoresponder
The Okay I Just Can't Compare These Guys To The Others Tier But They're Pretty Cool Too Tier: Andrew Hussie Crowbar Clubs Deuce
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 26, 2016 1:33:01 GMT
I sort of wonder if, if the aim is to do it by popularity, it would be better to hold a poll of which characters people would like added to the list or something? Like, assume the 8 kids + 12 beta trolls + 2 cherubs + 2 relevant alpha trolls are a given, then put all the other reasonable candidates (sprites, carapaces etc) in a poll and people can tick all the ones they'd like to see. Then add the ones that get the most votes. I don't know, just an idea. But that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm using a poll someone else did to choose which characters are going to be in my poll. To create a third poll for that... at some point we have to decide where to draw the line and accept which polls to consider. It's just very hard to make the list when half of the characters I'm not exactly interested in. It would be better if it was just the 8 kids, the 12 trolls and the 2 cherubs (maybe WV, PM and jack noir, plus the pre-scratch trolls, although nobody really likes them) Do you actually think most of the people will agree with that list? If there is one thing I've learned with this and the previous thread is there is no consensus when it comes to popularity of Homestuck characters. Except Gamzee, everyone knows he sucks.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 26, 2016 1:37:43 GMT
I sort of wonder if, if the aim is to do it by popularity, it would be better to hold a poll of which characters people would like added to the list or something? Like, assume the 8 kids + 12 beta trolls + 2 cherubs + 2 relevant alpha trolls are a given, then put all the other reasonable candidates (sprites, carapaces etc) in a poll and people can tick all the ones they'd like to see. Then add the ones that get the most votes. I don't know, just an idea. But that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm using a poll someone else did to choose which characters are going to be in my poll. To create a third poll for that... at some point we have to decide where to draw the line and accept which polls to consider. It's just very hard to make the list when half of the characters I'm not exactly interested in. It would be better if it was just the 8 kids, the 12 trolls and the 2 cherubs (maybe WV, PM and jack noir, plus the pre-scratch trolls, although nobody really likes them) Do you actually think most of the people will agree with that list? If there is one thing I've learned with this and the previous thread is there is no consensus when it comes to popularity of Homestuck characters. Except Gamzee, everyone knows he sucks. yeah i don't understand how people hate gamzee so much when vriska's just as worse i wonder if gamzee had a literal "look everyone, have pity for me!" arc like vriska did he'd be liked more.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 26, 2016 1:44:31 GMT
UPD8! The list seems like it's getting more similar to the previous one as Terezi goes down, Dave takes his place as #2 and Vriska keeps going up. Ok then, let's do this again. Setting characters so low in the list feels weird because I literally don't hate or dislike anyone. I guess this list is more about who I like and care for the most vs. who I appreciate but I'm indifferent towards. Deciding most positions after the first five characters was so difficult, I tried making literal rounds to decide for anyone else this time. Some observations: Karkat and Dave are still my home boys, yeah. And I never stopped loving Terezi and Dirk, also yeah. I'm boring. Roxy has lost a few positions... I think she was too perfect by the end and it made her a little boring to me. I like flaws and suffering and shitty people, alright? :U Gamzee has lost so many positions because he stopped feeling like a character to me, honestly, but I still hold some fascination for him. Vriska lost many too, but probably it's just because I'm supposed to count Vriska and (Vriska) as the same person, so it fucked up her position. PM gained a lot of positions because she's just that much of a badass. It's kind of a pity for the characters that didn't have enough room in the story overall, because I can't care about them as much as I do others (Davepeta being the huge exception). Teh favs:Karkat Dave Terezi Dirk Davepetasprite Other favs:Davesprite Jade Roxy Rose Peregrine Mendicant Jake Also great characters:Kanaya Vriska Autoresponder Calliope Doc Scratch Other characters I love:Aradia Caliborn Wayward Vagabond Nepeta Dad Characters I like:Meenah Tavros Jack Noir Gamzee Aranea Jasprosesrite Other characters I like but I'm neutral towards:Sollux Crowbar Equius Clubs Deuce Andrew Hussie Eridan Feferi Your list is missing John and Jane. Also people please don't add unnecessary formatting to your list (like numbers and tier names). The only thing your formatting does is make it impossible for my program to read them and force me to remove everything manually. Or if you really want to post those do it like braperile and post both versions. Thank you.
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Post by flagellumVagueness on Apr 26, 2016 2:58:29 GMT
yeah i don't understand how people hate gamzee so much when vriska's just as worse i wonder if gamzee had a literal "look everyone, have pity for me!" arc like vriska did he'd be liked more. I'm pretty the main reason is that Vriska's shenanigans are at least amusing, while Gamzee's just a terrible cloun. No one like clouns.
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nepetastuck
Greentike
where is vriska,, i cannot rest until i know what happened to my wife
Posts: 9
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Post by nepetastuck on Apr 26, 2016 5:26:04 GMT
This looks fun, I'm always looking for the chance to talk about my favs! And sorry if it's super long? Couldn't figure out how spoilers worked Characters I love more than life on this earth
Vriska John Jade Rose Nepeta Characters that are really fucking awesomeDave Karkat Terezi Kanaya Jane Roxy Characters that are pretty damn cool
Feferi Aradia Sollux Meenah Dirk Davesprite Equius Eridan Characters that are ok
Jake Tavros Davepetasprite Jasprosesprite Aranea Dad Characters I don't give a shit about
Calliope Peregrine Mendicant Wayward Vagabond Jack Noir Autoresponder Andrew Hussie Clubs Deuce Doc Scratch Crowbar Characters I want to burn in Hell foreverCaliborn Gamzee
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Post by drifloon on Apr 26, 2016 11:52:17 GMT
But that is exactly what I'm doing. I'm using a poll someone else did to choose which characters are going to be in my poll. To create a third poll for that... at some point we have to decide where to draw the line and accept which polls to consider. That wasn't actually a poll, though, it was a tournament. Which is something quite different because, as has been pointed out, tournament standings are heavily dependent on who the participants got matched up against, so it's only really reliable when it comes to who takes first place. If Clubs Deuce had been matched up against a really popular character in the first round, he wouldn't have got to round 2. So it feels like a pretty bad way of deciding things to me. I know there's never going to be a consensus that everyone's happy with, but a list that includes CD and Crowbar over DD and Snowman as representatives of their respective groups is just...odd, to me, given that the latter two are both more relevant in-comic and more popular as far as I know.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 26, 2016 13:39:45 GMT
yeah i don't understand how people hate gamzee so much when vriska's just as worse i wonder if gamzee had a literal "look everyone, have pity for me!" arc like vriska did he'd be liked more. I'm pretty the main reason is that Vriska's shenanigans are at least amusing, while Gamzee's just a terrible cloun. No one like clouns. I guess I understand now. Although my main reason for hating gamzee was because he was... admitedly pretty edgy when sober. I want more high gamzee back, Hussie :c
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lyla
Boy-Skylark
And if it's true, I will surround you and give life to a world that's our own.
Posts: 137
Pronouns: she/her/hers
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Post by lyla on Apr 27, 2016 15:03:19 GMT
UPD8! The list seems like it's getting more similar to the previous one as Terezi goes down, Dave takes his place as #2 and Vriska keeps going up. Ok then, let's do this again. Setting characters so low in the list feels weird because I literally don't hate or dislike anyone. I guess this list is more about who I like and care for the most vs. who I appreciate but I'm indifferent towards. Deciding most positions after the first five characters was so difficult, I tried making literal rounds to decide for anyone else this time. Some observations: Karkat and Dave are still my home boys, yeah. And I never stopped loving Terezi and Dirk, also yeah. I'm boring. Roxy has lost a few positions... I think she was too perfect by the end and it made her a little boring to me. I like flaws and suffering and shitty people, alright? :U Gamzee has lost so many positions because he stopped feeling like a character to me, honestly, but I still hold some fascination for him. Vriska lost many too, but probably it's just because I'm supposed to count Vriska and (Vriska) as the same person, so it fucked up her position. PM gained a lot of positions because she's just that much of a badass. It's kind of a pity for the characters that didn't have enough room in the story overall, because I can't care about them as much as I do others (Davepeta being the huge exception). Teh favs:Karkat Dave Terezi Dirk Davepetasprite Other favs:Davesprite Jade Roxy Rose Peregrine Mendicant Jake Also great characters:Kanaya Vriska Autoresponder Calliope Doc Scratch Other characters I love:Aradia Caliborn Wayward Vagabond Nepeta Dad Characters I like:Meenah Tavros Jack Noir Gamzee Aranea Jasprosesrite Other characters I like but I'm neutral towards:Sollux Crowbar Equius Clubs Deuce Andrew Hussie Eridan Feferi Your list is missing John and Jane. Also people please don't add unnecessary formatting to your list (like numbers and tier names). The only thing your formatting does is make it impossible for my program to read them and force me to remove everything manually. Or if you really want to post those do it like braperile and post both versions. Thank you. ...it's weird how they were both in the original list but somehow got erased here, maybe in the process of writing the tiers. Let's do this again. Karkat
Dave
Terezi
Dirk
Davepetasprite
Davesprite
Jade
Roxy
Rose
Peregrine Mendicant
Jake
Kanaya
Vriska
Autoresponder
Jane John Calliope
Doc Scratch
Aradia
Caliborn
Wayward Vagabond
Nepeta
Dad
Meenah
Tavros
Jack Noir
Gamzee
Aranea
Jasprosesrite
Sollux
Crowbar
Equius
Clubs Deuce
Andrew Hussie
Eridan
Feferi
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 28, 2016 2:47:55 GMT
I'm pretty the main reason is that Vriska's shenanigans are at least amusing, while Gamzee's just a terrible cloun. No one like clouns. I guess I understand now. Although my main reason for hating gamzee was because he was... admitedly pretty edgy when sober. I want more high gamzee back, Hussie :c The majority of people dont like post recton Vriska though. And Vriska used to be quite high on the list, but has gone down more and more as act 6 went on. The main reason why I like Vriska is because I thought everything she said to John was believable at the time and I thought her act 5 arc was the best arc in homestuck. I liked how she died instead of being given the opportunity to meet john and step down from being the best. And as for gamzee, a reason why a lot of people hate him after he went sober is because he is a terrible villain. Please note that Caliborn is welliked by a lot of people despite being more evil than post recton Vriska. Gamzee just became a shitty character and lost his character arc completely. I think another reason could be that Vriska tormented characters who are not very popular, like Tavros and Jake, whilst Gamzee harmed Karkat and Terezi who are both very well loved by the fanbase, so there is probably a bit of bias in there too. I admit that my liking towards Gamzee dropped completely when he killed Karkat in GO, who is like, my son. :/ That still doesnt justify post recton Vriska not receiving punishment though. And her being needed is not an excuse.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 28, 2016 13:29:46 GMT
I try to consider the entire comic when ranking my characters, and Vriska has been mostly a great one.
But post-retcon Vriska is a Mary Sue played straight. Which is sad because she used to be a deconstruction of a Mary Sue. I thought Hussie was going to break her again before the ending but he didn't.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 29, 2016 6:19:24 GMT
The thing is, even if post-retcon Vriska gets a 'she ended up dying in the ended and she didn't like the thought of that and hence got punished' sort of ending in the epilogue, it would still be disappointing for her arc to end up like that. Post-retcon Vriska should not have happened at all. But at the same time bringing her back was one of the huge points of the retcon so....?
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
sushi guro
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 29, 2016 6:30:33 GMT
The thing is, even if post-retcon Vriska gets a 'she ended up dying in the ended and she didn't like the thought of that and hence got punished' sort of ending in the epilogue, it would still be disappointing for her arc to end up like that. Post-retcon Vriska should not have happened at all. But at the same time bringing her back was one of the huge points of the retcon so....? I actually would have liked the moral that it seemed like Hussie was going for with that, but then he just... Didn't follow through with it? Honestly Roxy is more of a "straight Mary Sue" than Vriska, but nobody seems to care.
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