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Post by Neptz on Apr 28, 2016 21:20:58 GMT
Really though? Calling creative endeavors "cancer"? Are we still doing that? I mean, personally I'd like to think that as long as the end product is made in earnest and isn't intending to be inflammatory or negative in relation to one of the two properties being made to cross over, that should be looked at as a good thing, but apparently we can't or shouldn't do that? I call it cancer over a lack of a better negative word. I'm sure there's one, but I have not found it yet. By no means do I mean to be offensive or rude to those people.
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Post by swampmist on Apr 28, 2016 21:27:23 GMT
Sorry to derail a bit, but just saw the newest episode of Ghost. Hoooooooooooooopy shit, deep specter is THE SHIT. Overtime always uploads their episodes 2/3 days after their release on Sundays, with Zyuohger coming before, 1 day after it's RAW release. Yup, Kissasian had it up last night I believe, just caught it now. It was super good, the scene with Alain and Makoto, just, yes.
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captain
Plucky Tot
Posts: 23
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Post by captain on Apr 28, 2016 23:49:33 GMT
theres bad elements of any fandom sure but by and large the loudest in general internet spaces, and most assholish of these bad elements that i have come across are mlp bronies. and by that i mean the shitty bronies, bc i will concede that some bronies arent so bad. i havent watched mlp at all myself so im not gonna pretend to know what im talking about when it comes to the writing of the show. there are some definitely shitty homestuck and su fans for sure, but they are much more contained within the fandom than gross mlp fans, who just seem to seep out and be shitty about the fandom even outside of it. of course thats just my experience and general impression but still
anyway, i assume vidya games are ok to talk about here? ive been playing stardew valley of late, and its super enjoyable. theres something oddly addicting about it and i really like it. she's not available yet, but im gunning for emily as my stardew waifu, she's cool. also im best bros with linus. linus is the best. i'd probably say leah is my choice out of the current marriage candidates in the game. but hey, thats only one aspect of the game. i think the part i enjoy more is just the slow accumulation of resources, the farming parts, and completing the bundles. it's just extremely satisfying to me for some reason.
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Post by sigh on Apr 29, 2016 0:31:47 GMT
Honestly I'm just wondering where all these apparently horrid bronies you guys are finding are in the first place, because I've stayed pretty embroiled in the fandom for a while and I can't think of any outstanding scandals that have arisen from it in the past couple of years. Compare that to HS and SU, whose fans terrorized IRL convention centers and Tumblr respectively (those who are aware of the insanity that arose from the legion of gray face paint that fell upon conventions after Act 5 and the Zamii debacle, among others, know what I'm talking about), and aside from bronies being a bit too pushy at times in trying to get people to get into their show I fail to see what's so particularly bad about that particular fandom.
Plus, even that is just the inevitable backlash from those that tried to shame us into not watching the show in the first place, if those people hadn't done what they did the MLP fandom wouldn't have been nearly as pushy in retaliation. Seriously, if I recall correctly we had Fox news say that our mere existence was just barely more tolerable than terrorism. That's going to generate some pushback.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 29, 2016 1:30:11 GMT
theres bad elements of any fandom sure but by and large the loudest in general internet spaces, and most assholish of these bad elements that i have come across are mlp bronies. and by that i mean the shitty bronies, bc i will concede that some bronies arent so bad. i havent watched mlp at all myself so im not gonna pretend to know what im talking about when it comes to the writing of the show. there are some definitely shitty homestuck and su fans for sure, but they are much more contained within the fandom than gross mlp fans, who just seem to seep out and be shitty about the fandom even outside of it. of course thats just my experience and general impression but still anyway, i assume vidya games are ok to talk about here? ive been playing stardew valley of late, and its super enjoyable. theres something oddly addicting about it and i really like it. she's not available yet, but im gunning for emily as my stardew waifu, she's cool. also im best bros with linus. linus is the best. i'd probably say leah is my choice out of the current marriage candidates in the game. but hey, thats only one aspect of the game. i think the part i enjoy more is just the slow accumulation of resources, the farming parts, and completing the bundles. it's just extremely satisfying to me for some reason. This guy sums it up perfectly. You won't find bad SU and HS fans if you don't look for it, but I generally notice bad bronies pretty much everywhere, most frequently youtube comments.
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Post by sigh on Apr 29, 2016 2:57:22 GMT
Let's be fair trying to find positive examples of anything in Youtube comments is a fool's errand. That said, I'd rather take obnoxiously overbearing online fans over outright nasty or moblike ones any day.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 29, 2016 14:36:32 GMT
Let's be fair trying to find positive examples of anything in Youtube comments is a fool's errand. That said, I'd rather take obnoxiously overbearing online fans over outright nasty or moblike ones any day. Yeah, Youtube comments have the worst of anything. So does DeviantArt comments.
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
A thumbs-up to you, good sir/ma'am!
Posts: 428
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Apr 30, 2016 1:46:49 GMT
Most YouTube comments I just find funny, but there are ones that are flat-out mean and offensive, particularly when using "autistic" as an insult. (WHY do people think that's a good insult? Autism isn't a bad thing, take it from someone who has autism herself. You just gotta work a bit harder, that's all.)
Oh yeah, I'm curious. I'm looking at gameplay footage of Mario and Luigi: Paper Jam. I've played Bowser's Inside Story, so I'm not unfamiliar with the game mechanics of the series. Still, is it a game worth getting?
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Post by sigh on Apr 30, 2016 3:35:37 GMT
Autism as an insult for the most part came from 4Chan, who by and large use insults in the same way the Irish do, as generic terms you call those around you with little real malice behind it. It was largely created as a shorthand to describe those you found to be lacking in proper social skills, as those with autism are often diagnosed to have, and is mostly used to describe/insult those who cannot seem to understand the implications behind what others are saying.
Getting back to the topic of the thread, however, I can't speak to the quality of Paper Jam, but I've heard from a few people around the net that it wasn't as good as previous Mario and Luigi titles, opting to go back to the same old "Bowser is the final boss" cliche that the RPG Marios had been doing so well to subvert until then.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 30, 2016 3:52:49 GMT
AGAIN with "Bowser is the final boss"? If Dream Team wasn't dissapointing enough...
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
A thumbs-up to you, good sir/ma'am!
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Apr 30, 2016 3:59:12 GMT
It doesn't seem so bad. Some of the comments complained about how there weren't much elements from Paper Mario other than Sticker Star, but I never played the latter so some of the references will likely fly right over my head. As for the final boss being Bowser, it's pretty sad that they stopped using at least partially original final bosses after Bowser's Inside Story. But as long the Paper Jam final boss puts up a good fight (and there's an awesome final boss theme too, I discovered), I don't really mind.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 30, 2016 4:12:46 GMT
Yeah, the final boss is a minor part if you count it in the grand scheme of things. But I wanted Evil Mario as the final boss somehow
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
A thumbs-up to you, good sir/ma'am!
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Apr 30, 2016 4:20:55 GMT
It would be an interesting idea for a final boss, though I'm not sure how that will quite work out. It could simply mean that the doppelganger will mimic actions like the clones in Super Mario Galaxy 2, or maybe it would just work entirely different and just looks like Mario.
However, considering that there's theory that Mario is a sociopath, maybe Evil Mario could be a nod to that, like it would represent Mario if he was completely selfish and is only on his own agenda.
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Post by jacquerel on Apr 30, 2016 4:38:34 GMT
Bowser is the final boss in every Mario and Luigi RPG title, honestly I kind of like it as they find some way to give him another silly alternate form every time. It's a tradition I'd be happy for them to continue.
In terms of the overall series Paper Jam was... fine. It was less sluggish than Dream Team, but the "story" wasn't very interesting (if you play Mario games for that, for some reason) and there were a lot of mandatory minigames. Bowser's Inside Story was still the best one.
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Post by sigh on Apr 30, 2016 6:36:16 GMT
Dream Team was my first Mario and Luigi title so I can't really judge it against any of the others out there but I liked it well enough, the giant battles were pretty fun though, I wish there were more of those outside of just boss fights.
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 30, 2016 12:57:36 GMT
The best days for the Mario RPGS was back when Paper Mario 2 was just out. I never understood why people disliked Partners in Time, I thought it was great. Bowser's inside story was a lot of fun too.
Paper Mario 2 just edges out the original Super Mario RPG for me; nostalgia glasses are on a little too tight for me on that one.
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
A thumbs-up to you, good sir/ma'am!
Posts: 428
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Apr 30, 2016 14:11:06 GMT
I've never been there for the heyday of Mario RPGs, likely because I was either too young or wasn't even born then to play them. I got started with the Mario RPGs with Super Paper Mario, which I liked despite me getting stuck at the end of Chapter 2.
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Post by sawkinator on Apr 30, 2016 15:49:00 GMT
Yeah, no, the fandom isn't any worse than any other cartoon fandom, gonna have to call bullshit on that. Every single fandom has toxic, obnoxious, perverted, etc. communities. You can either ignore them, find a less awful place to engage in the community, or just let people ruin the show for you. (Yes, it is your choice. Just watch the show by yourself if you can't cope.) Complaining about fans of MLP turning you off of the fandom, while saying you enjoy SU, on a Homestuck forum, that's laughably hypocritical. Well maybe you'd feel differently if you were a girl who had to see the sexualization of pony characters almost every single day (and yes, even EQD would post 'saucy' art every once in a while and just enabled it) when you were engaged in the fandom, from a show created by a feminist trying to empower girls by giving them several characters who aren't just 'girly' (did you know Lauren Faust is a feminist? Yeah, neither do most bronies.) When I first got into the fandom I was hoping having a show that was enjoyed by so many young adult men that was geared at breaking 'feminine' stereotypes in media would help make those fans more aware of sexism and try to fight against it. But then you get sexual fanart for bronies to enjoy, bronies denying Faust's feminism, and bronies feeling rudely entitled to the ENTIRE SHOW even though they're actually a minority compared to the intended audience, yes I am a little fucking salty about the whole thing. Don't you dare call me a hypocrite just because you don't know how fucking exhausting it is to try finding positive female representation that doesn't inevitably get taken over by gross guys who either want to reduce these girl characters to sex symbols or whine about how 'feminism is ruining modern media' (see: people being butthurt about the next Star Wars movie having a female lead) Not to mention that through some of the scandals in the fandom (PiekyPie or whatever her name was), not once did any of the people working on the show call people out on their bullshit. Contrast that with the Zamii incident in the SU fandom, where many people working on the show DID respond to the incident and condone the people bullying her. In conclusion, fuck you.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 30, 2016 16:11:58 GMT
While I don't have say with anything else that you have posted (feminism is a weird subject for me and has lead to a lot of headaches), companies are not obligated to call people off on their fandom that are bullying each other. Interacting with the fandom is always great, yes, but they are maybe too busy creating, making and editing a damn show to care if someone's bullying someone else. It is sad, but that's business.
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Post by jacquerel on Apr 30, 2016 16:18:53 GMT
All fandoms have their share of bad eggs but I think to claim that they're all exactly equal is fairly dishonest. While plenty of MLP fans absolutely are fine people, a larger proportion of those that call themselves "bronies" are the product of toxic masculinity than you would fine in many other fandom groups. These are the kind of people that watch a show designed to empower young girls but instead of embracing it, just double down on the restrictive social narrative of male brutality to "compensate".
For a show where the tagline literally is "friendship is magic" it counts among its fans an extraordinary amount of bullies and those to whom the power of getting along is one of their lowest priorities. Artists who specialise in drawing horse-themed rape comics, men's rights activists, pick up artists, and even literal fascists have a much louder voice in this group than you would find in almost any other fandom, especially one for a show for pre-teen girls. This isn't even anything to do with the creators, the fandom doesn't make any attempt to police itself and in fact generally takes great offence at the idea that it should.
Plenty of people were initially excited that the show seemed to have such wide appeal! For so many boys to seemingly be willing to look past the obvious "girlishness" of the material showed some level of social progressivism, but that hope died pretty fast.
Again, this obviously does not apply to all of them, but it's enough that at this point (and to be honest, years ago) a significant of the more kind-hearted people who watch the show would just describe themselves as "fans" rather than "Bronies" to forswear association with that crowd. It's pretty unpleasant.
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
A thumbs-up to you, good sir/ma'am!
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Apr 30, 2016 16:55:30 GMT
And it's pretty sad, actually. I had issues on the Nook with folks who would write shipfics, which would have been okay except that it was....how shall I put this? Very unkidfriendly, and this was on a platform that can be just as easily be read by children.
I've never encountered mean people in the MLP fandom, though. Guess I've been pretty lucky, but I don't like how some fans are being jerks despite the show's emphasis on friendship.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 30, 2016 18:05:44 GMT
I have never encountered anyone who's mean, either. Just people who are obviously too young to be spending too much time on a computer.
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Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on Apr 30, 2016 18:45:24 GMT
Being part of a fandom with a noticeable online presence comes with finding your own corner to interact with others fans, often between the frantic Tumblr SJW (Zamii incident) and the close-minded man-childs that frequent 4chan and Facebook (Twitter maybe?)(Black Stormtrooper, Female Hero: Star Wars 7)
You just have to deal/ignore with the extremes. Them's the 8r8ks! MLP online fandom, however is a very difficult one to watch, as Sawk's mention. All fandom stereotypes are founded in truth.
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Post by Neptz on Apr 30, 2016 23:09:17 GMT
Speaking from experience (i.e have been on 4chan for 5 years) Nobody there is a true manchild. They're people pretending to be manchilds. Don't forget that.
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Post by jacquerel on Apr 30, 2016 23:56:11 GMT
I mean... if you spend most of your time on the internet "pretending" to be an awful person, you're probably still a pretty terrible person. Like, that doesn't actually change anything.
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