The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 16, 2016 17:07:50 GMT
Not true for an average post-scratch session (which also may not have a scratch construct). I agree with your other points, but the question was specifically about "a perfect session," and a perfect session would not need to be scratched.
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Post by Blaperile on May 16, 2016 17:41:49 GMT
prototyping all the Kernelsprites before entry (with something that is not a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity)and all players entering the game with their homes. Technically, it's entirely possible for someone to prototype "a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity" and have things still go as planned, it's just harder, and presents a greater opportunity for things to go off the rails. Fair enough, but because it's such an uncommon situation to happen and jasonface900 requested what a "perfect" session looks like I included that because normally that's not what you're supposed to do. Is this really a "normal" thing to happen, though? I mean, yes the Genesis Frog needs to get the center of the Battlefield and (at least one of) the rings destroyed, but I got the impression the only reason Echidna was holding onto it in the session we saw was to delay ending the game until the Condesce was defeated. Kanaya says they needed to light their Forge to get Bilious Slick as well: KANAYA: It Looks Like Someone Has Finally Released The Grist KANAYA: Its Ready To Receive Echidnas Offering Now KANAYA: If Someone Is Able To Light The Forge That Is ROXY: oh ROXY: soo... ROXY: how do we do that again? KANAYA: In Our Session By This Time It Was Trivial KANAYA: Under Present Circumstances I Think It Will Be KANAYA: Tricky JOHN: huh? KANAYA: Every Magic Ring I Am Aware Of Is Currently In Use KANAYA: Some By Friends And Some By FoesNot true for an average post-scratch session (which also may not have a scratch construct). As for pre-scratch sessions I think we only have speculation by Karkat that it always happens. I haven't checked if Hussie said anything though. Sure, I just wouldn't count a post-scratch session as a typical "perfect" session, but you are correct that it works that way if a post-scratch session does happen.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 16, 2016 17:53:24 GMT
Is this really a "normal" thing to happen, though? I mean, yes the Genesis Frog needs to get the center of the Battlefield and (at least one of) the rings destroyed, but I got the impression the only reason Echidna was holding onto it in the session we saw was to delay ending the game until the Condesce was defeated. Kanaya says they needed to light their Forge to get Bilious Slick as well: KANAYA: It Looks Like Someone Has Finally Released The Grist KANAYA: Its Ready To Receive Echidnas Offering Now KANAYA: If Someone Is Able To Light The Forge That Is ROXY: oh ROXY: soo... ROXY: how do we do that again? KANAYA: In Our Session By This Time It Was Trivial KANAYA: Under Present Circumstances I Think It Will Be KANAYA: Tricky JOHN: huh? KANAYA: Every Magic Ring I Am Aware Of Is Currently In Use KANAYA: Some By Friends And Some By FoesI agree, Kanaya implied that you have to through the rings into the forge, but I don't see what that has to do with Echidna holding on to the genesis frog. In fact, didn't Kanaya kill her Echidna?
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on May 18, 2016 11:55:58 GMT
One of the players (presumably the leader of the session) needs to travel to the Veil and create themselves and their co-players (and their Guardians) through Ectobiology, so that they can be sent to the home planet on meteors. Not true for an average post-scratch session (which also may not have a scratch construct). As for pre-scratch sessions I think we only have speculation by Karkat that it always happens. I haven't checked if Hussie said anything though. Well, we know that Caliborn was a player who wasn't created through ectobiology, at least. According to Aranea cherubs weren't "supposed" to play, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's not true, since obviously Lord English was accounted for by Paradox Space all along.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 18, 2016 13:57:21 GMT
Not true for an average post-scratch session (which also may not have a scratch construct). As for pre-scratch sessions I think we only have speculation by Karkat that it always happens. I haven't checked if Hussie said anything though. Well, we know that Caliborn was a player who wasn't created through ectobiology, at least. According to Aranea cherubs weren't "supposed" to play, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's not true, since obviously Lord English was accounted for by Paradox Space all along. I think it's more along the lines of Lord English used a retcon-like ability to make Paradox Space account for him. But yes, it's up for debate and the answer isn't clear either way.
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Post by Arashi500 on May 18, 2016 21:17:05 GMT
Well, we know that Caliborn was a player who wasn't created through ectobiology, at least. According to Aranea cherubs weren't "supposed" to play, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's not true, since obviously Lord English was accounted for by Paradox Space all along. I think it's more along the lines of Lord English used a retcon-like ability to make Paradox Space account for him. But yes, it's up for debate and the answer isn't clear either way. I would be inclined to think Cherubs really aren't supposed to play Sburb, but Sburb/Skaia has methods of "dealing" with things that aren't supposed to happen that do happen, contingency plans, if you will.
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Post by tastySalamanders on May 19, 2016 16:32:12 GMT
On pre-scratch Earth there were other people were playing the game, and dialogue in Act 6 Intermission 2 really supports that multiple sessions per planet is kind of the norm.
Given everything we've seen, given each planet that has the game only has a single first guardian and the other B1 sessions were piggy-backing off the code found from the kids Frog Temple I've mostly assumed that being a paradox clone isn't really a necessity to playing a game but really just a feature of players from sessions that paradoxically seed their planets with the game in the first place. Caliborn and Calliope appear to be another case of a piggyback session where again they were using a copy of the game either created by Skaianet or by Sollux, hence the lack of any need for them to be ectobiologically created.
I think a bigger session is; what is supposed to happen when such piggyback sessions scratch their session?
Also I can't help but notice that in the two post-scratch sessions we saw that only the only sessions tied to the planet were for the particular session that was scratched. We really don't know a lot about Beforus, aside from Meenah apparently finding a ready-made copy of the game on the moon, so who the fuck knows what happened there. Plus Lord English's session glitch was in play so... *shrugs*
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 19, 2016 17:06:36 GMT
I think a bigger session is; what is supposed to happen when such piggyback sessions scratch their session? I would guess it's one of three options: - Piggyback sessions cannot scratch their session.
- Piggyback sessions still have to ectobiologize their past selves and send them back to their home planet, they just don't have to worry about the frog temple and first guardians.
- Piggyback sessions are doomed to fail without getting the chance to scratch.
Which one it is ... I guess is up to headcanon at this point.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 19, 2016 20:18:12 GMT
Calliope's talk about Bilious Slick's death to the Red Miles suggested that there were lots of Timelines in a Universe Frog, so it could be that if a non-Prime session scratched, it would just go through like a Prime Session Scratch, created another entirely separate post-scratch Timeline that exists in parallel with the post-scratch Timelines created from other sessions. Since there's no reason to think that a given post-scratch Timeline isn't capable of hosting more Sessions beyond the set of Scratched players, it's possible that a single Universe could host a recursive fractal of Timelines begetting Timelines, each potentially spawning several attempts at Cosmic Propagation.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 20, 2016 3:09:08 GMT
I think the concern wasn't how timelines would work, but rather, if the players weren't created by the game sent back in time, then how would the scratch work when Paradox Space switches around the kids' meteor arrival time to make the alternate timeline.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 20, 2016 3:27:21 GMT
I think the concern wasn't how timelines would work, but rather, if the players weren't created by the game sent back in time, then how would the scratch work when Paradox Space switches around the kids' meteor arrival time to make the alternate timeline. It controls all of the other meteors. Combined with it's omniscience, Skaia could easily find a way to arrange the meteors to subtly shape a civilization in any way it sees fit. But then again, if Skaia was omniscient and could see how to arrange the meteors to make a civilization with the optimal players, one must wonder why it doesn't do so in the first place.
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Post by randomlurker on May 27, 2016 9:30:30 GMT
How did John fix his specibus after he broke it fighting the imp?
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 27, 2016 14:38:35 GMT
He repaired the hammer while it was still equipped.
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Post by eerr on May 28, 2016 5:37:51 GMT
How did John fix his specibus after he broke it fighting the imp? More specifically: He merged the sledgehammer head in his stack modus with the hammer stick in his strife specibi It's been shown john can merge all the top cards in his deck, or the top card with another object, this was a slightly new, but not really unheralded function. Dave did not have that luxury.
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Post by ashercrane on Jun 5, 2016 17:02:50 GMT
I found where Aradia said seers know their aspect, but does the comic/confirmed sources ever actually use the word "understand"?
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Post by plainWonder on Jun 5, 2016 18:32:39 GMT
Dave did not have that luxury. The interesting thing is, Hephaestus specifically needed to mend Caledfwlch using the Forge. Meanwhile, Alternate Future Dave had created a Snoop sword he could break and fix at a moment's notice, by rewinding and accelerating it across it's timeline.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 5, 2016 20:47:32 GMT
I found where Aradia said seers know their aspect, but does the comic/confirmed sources ever actually use the word "understand"? In Hussie's old Formspring, he said that
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Post by ashercrane on Jun 30, 2016 14:03:01 GMT
Is there anywhere that classes with opposite functions are confirmed? Like, that there's a creation or similar class to be opposite the destruction classes? Or is this inferred by most people?
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Post by Gab on Jun 30, 2016 14:12:05 GMT
I think this came about by "inversion theory" and I personally am more and more convinced it's not the case with CLASSES. ASPECTS on the other hand are at least implied to have opposites, such as Life and Doom. But the only connection Classes are ever stated to have with one another is active/passive pairs, ala Thief and Rogue.
It's not exactly a simple question, and it could be gotten into more, maybe at the classpect thread, but I think this is as much as I can say from what there is to gather from the story itself, colored slightly by my own opinions.
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Post by legendary on Jun 30, 2016 16:40:27 GMT
Yeah with the relative lack of classpect information it's hard to say. Calliope says that if two players with opposing aspects have sufficiently different classes they can seem similar, so that's the biggest piece of evidence (actively destroying Life is the same thing as passively creating Doom) but at the same time she only says "one active the other passive" or some shit which almost suggests she's saying that Vriska and Roxy are supposed to have similar powers? That doesn't seem right either.
Basically I guess there's no simple questions when it comes to classpects because the story built up like it was going to be relevant and then said "Lol no just kidding."
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Momo
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Post by Momo on Jul 6, 2016 21:57:03 GMT
I think this probably has a definite answer that I missed somewhere; where are the cherubs' dreamer moons located? Were they in caliborn's session, and got destroyed when he entered?
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Post by obsidalicious on Jul 6, 2016 22:07:48 GMT
I think this probably has a definite answer that I missed somewhere; where are the cherubs' dreamer moons located? Were they in caliborn's session, and got destroyed when he entered? The entirety of Prospit was sucked into the Blackhole that formed shortly after Caliborn's entry. Derse on the other hand appears to have been left alone and just sat there with not a lot to do. Presumably Caliborn kept his Dreamself there until he ascended to God Tier, while the Black Queen departed to become the final boss for his eighth planet.
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Momo
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Post by Momo on Jul 6, 2016 22:14:36 GMT
The entirety of Prospit was sucked into the Blackhole that formed shortly after Caliborn's entry. Derse on the other hand appears to have been left alone and just sat there with not a lot to do. Presumably Caliborn kept his Dreamself there until he ascended to God Tier, while the Black Queen departed to become the final boss for his eighth planet. Nice, so it's about what I thought. Thanks!
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Post by ashercrane on Jul 17, 2016 22:06:22 GMT
I recall there being a section where someone said the main reason why the group followed Karkat was because all his yelling just made it easier just to follow him, or something similar, but I don't remember who said it, or where. Help?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2016 6:35:49 GMT
I recall there being a section where someone said the main reason why the group followed Karkat was because all his yelling just made it easier just to follow him, or something similar, but I don't remember who said it, or where. Help? Vriska, in the same conversation with John where she confessed in killing Tavros.
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