Salty
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Post by Salty on Mar 1, 2017 18:54:31 GMT
How can something less than three minutes long be so much better than the canon Homestuck ending? How can Hussie even compete now? honestly surprised no one is talking about this |
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Post by swampmist on Mar 1, 2017 20:11:42 GMT
Holy balls they actually finished? This looks awesome, nice work to everyone who worked on it!
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Mar 1, 2017 21:20:34 GMT
Holy balls they actually finished? This looks awesome, nice work to everyone who worked on it! It's not the end of Act Omega at all, it's really just the beginning. And in any case, I'm impressed personally. Usually Homestuck fan continuations drastically fail to hit the comic's apppeal (DDotA, Act 8). |
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Post by melonlord on Mar 2, 2017 5:19:43 GMT
And in any case, I'm impressed personally. Usually Homestuck fan continuations drastically fail to hit the comic's apppeal (DDotA, Act 8). Hm. Really? I sort of liked Act 8, weird hero mode drawings aside. And DDotA is a little awkward, but it at least makes some sort of attempt at looking into and breaking down the characters' issues. (Which is more than can be said for some webcomics I could mention) Eh. Maybe Homestuck's ending just set the bar fantastically low for me. It takes quite a lot to be worse than nothing. |
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Mar 2, 2017 11:17:05 GMT
And in any case, I'm impressed personally. Usually Homestuck fan continuations drastically fail to hit the comic's apppeal (DDotA, Act 8). Hm. Really? I sort of liked Act 8, weird hero mode drawings aside. And DDotA is a little awkward, but it at least makes some sort of attempt at looking into and breaking down the characters' issues. (Which is more than can be said for some webcomics I could mention) Eh. Maybe Homestuck's ending just set the bar fantastically low for me. It takes quite a lot to be worse than nothing. Act 8 got carried away with characters complaining and lampshading stuff about the comic, which was funny but got in the way of plot developments for a long time. Likewise DDotA got carried away with having too much character analysis and going over very specific interpretations of the whole cast to the point where it stopped being fun to read and became impossible to follow. |
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Trickle Is Too Lazy To Log In
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Post by Trickle Is Too Lazy To Log In on Mar 2, 2017 11:34:26 GMT
I love Act OMEGA much more than Act 8. Act 8 is just sucking Vriska's already inflated penis ego and "oh my god we're teens and we have relationships and complex problems bluh bluh bluh there's no action here just whiny teens bitching about shit".
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Mar 2, 2017 12:57:32 GMT
I love Act OMEGA much more than Act 8. Act 8 is just sucking Vriska's already inflated penis ego and "oh my god we're teens and we have relationships and complex problems bluh bluh bluh there's no action here just whiny teens bitching about shit". To be fair Act 8 actually berates Vriska quite a bit. That's actually one of the things I liked about that comic if only because of how much of a change of pace it was from the original comic. It wasn't really about relationship problems either, more like the kids just taking in general about little more than having no idea what's going on. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2017 13:07:14 GMT
to be fair it kind of cuts off mid fight, so it's hardly an ending even without the rest of act omega to consider
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Post by ten11 on Mar 3, 2017 3:23:39 GMT
I think the main reason it seems superior is that it didn't purport itself to be "THE END". Other than that, it has many similiarities to the canon end, but this promise of more to come turns what would otherwise be an unsatisfying ending into a really cool segue into the rest of the ending.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Mar 3, 2017 12:12:16 GMT
I think the main reason it seems superior is that it didn't purport itself to be "THE END". Other than that, it has many similiarities to the canon end, but this promise of more to come turns what would otherwise be an unsatisfying ending into a really cool segue into the rest of the ending. Not really, the Act Omega flash actually had plot twists. |
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Mar 3, 2017 14:54:20 GMT
I don't think a comparison can be made when this flash isn't supposed to be at all conclusive. This is just the beginning of Act Omega. Act 7 was amazing in and of itself, it was only bad because it failed to serve as a good ending. But Resume was an amazing flash and so far I definitely like Act Omega more than Homestuck's ending. The three main things I hated about Homestuck's ending were plot holes, lack of dialog, and lack of plot twists, and Act Omega is covering all of that pretty well so far.
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Post by mementovivere on Mar 3, 2017 16:51:59 GMT
Yeah, this is pretty clearly not an "ending" so that's not a good comparison to make... but if this had been the actual penultimate flash, I'm not convinced that people wouldn't have still made same complaints that they did about something like Collide/Act 7. "It's not conclusive!" "It was so predictable, we saw all those 'plot twists' coming from a mile away!" "Why wasn't my OTP confirmed conclusively?" "That was just a bunch of fight scenes, what about their personal arcs?" "Why weren't 100% of the plotholes addressed?" "So was Lord English defeated or what?" "Did Hussie just forget about the Masterpiece?" Etc. I definitely don't think the ending of Homestuck was perfect, but it does seem like a lot of people have a strong anti-canon bias going on right now and are eager to give fan-made works a pass that they'd never give to Homestuck proper. THAT SAID, I don't want to detract from the fact that this is a very very good flash, and included a lot of things that I know people really wanted to see from the ending! Kudos to anyone who worked on it, I think Act Omega is probably the most well-done fan-made "supplementary ending" out there. I especially liked stuff like the fraymotifs, Jane being a badass, the return of Brain Ghost Dirk... plus a reeeeeally nice level of polish that you don't always see in fan-made flashes. I think the main reason it seems superior is that it didn't purport itself to be "THE END". Other than that, it has many similiarities to the canon end, but this promise of more to come turns what would otherwise be an unsatisfying ending into a really cool segue into the rest of the ending. Not really, the Act Omega flash actually had plot twists. The collective end of Homestuck had plot twists. They weren't HUGE PARADIGM-SHIFTING TWISTS (which really shouldn't be expected to happen at the end of EVERY STORY), but there were still plenty of things people didn't see coming like the triple-beheading, the way most of the big bads were defeated, Bec Noir taking over the Felt, Terezi leaving to search for Vriska, various aspects of Earth C, etc. Not to mention the more meta twist of "hey wait a minute, this ending is nothing like the 'spoiled ending' that Caliborn's Masterpiece showed us" although that's almost certainly going to get resolved in the epilogue. If anything, most of the things you could call a "plot twist" in this flash are just the more common things I saw people predicting for the end: the Condesce reviving and wrecking shit, Jade being mind controlled again after waking up, Dad being killed, Jane having a bigger role in fighting the Condesce, Calliope losing her ring at some point, etc. They look cool, and they work for the story, but one of the major reasons people didn't like the end of Homestuck is because it DIDN'T fulfill those more obvious things that people wanted to see, for better or for worse. |
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Mar 3, 2017 18:02:15 GMT
The collective end of Homestuck had plot twists. They weren't HUGE PARADIGM-SHIFTING TWISTS (which really shouldn't be expected to happen at the end of EVERY STORY), but there were still plenty of things people didn't see coming like the triple-beheading, the way most of the big bads were defeated, Bec Noir taking over the Felt, Terezi leaving to search for Vriska, various aspects of Earth C, etc. Not to mention the more meta twist of "hey wait a minute, this ending is nothing like the 'spoiled ending' that Caliborn's Masterpiece showed us" although that's almost certainly going to get resolved in the epilogue. Those... aren't really plot twists? Or at least not the way I'd define them. I was thinking more like surprise changes in the direction of the story which these aren't really. Or if not surprises, just major changes in general. Most of that stuff was really just minor side stuff. |
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Post by mementovivere on Mar 3, 2017 18:58:51 GMT
The collective end of Homestuck had plot twists. They weren't HUGE PARADIGM-SHIFTING TWISTS (which really shouldn't be expected to happen at the end of EVERY STORY), but there were still plenty of things people didn't see coming like the triple-beheading, the way most of the big bads were defeated, Bec Noir taking over the Felt, Terezi leaving to search for Vriska, various aspects of Earth C, etc. Not to mention the more meta twist of "hey wait a minute, this ending is nothing like the 'spoiled ending' that Caliborn's Masterpiece showed us" although that's almost certainly going to get resolved in the epilogue. Those... aren't really plot twists? Or at least not the way I'd define them. I was thinking more like surprise changes in the direction of the story which these aren't really. Or if not surprises, just major changes in general. Most of that stuff was really just minor side stuff. Well, maybe not, but since you made the claim, what would you consider a major story change in Resume? If the Collide character deaths are just minor side stuff as you said, all I can really think of is the Condesce mind-controlling Jade (again) and getting the Earth back under her control (again). That's not a plot twist so much as an excuse to keep the story going by introducing a new conflict extending a pre-existing conflict in a predictable way. It's exciting and entertaining, sure, but does it REALLY add anything substantial to the story aside from extending the length of the comic artificially? Wrapping up a story is hard, but you can ALWAYS throw new obstacles in the way... would people have been happier if Homestuck had just continued alternating between interpersonal dialogue dumps and battle flashes over and over as the bad guys overtake the good guys and vice versa, back and forth forever? |
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Mar 7, 2017 17:30:44 GMT
They weren't HUGE PARADIGM-SHIFTING TWISTS (which really shouldn't be expected to happen at the end of EVERY STORY) The vast majority of stories do (at least in my experience). Especially ones that are supposed to be as mysterious and complex and Homestuck. And especially after the end of Collide pretty explicitly introduced an ominous tone, and especially taking into account LE's notoriously manipulative, plot-twisty nature. And a ton of other foreshadowing that I don't want to get into right now. Sure we didn't predict every minor detail of how things went down, but the main story went pretty much exactly as expected. Actually, no, it was a lot simpler and less conclusive than expected, when it should be the other way around. We expected the Condesce's mind control abilities and immortality to be a huge deal that the characters would have to develop a plan to work around, but instead they were both ignored completely, making her a lot less threatening. There was literally no dialog. Calliope turned the Green Sun into a black hole and Vriska deployed the juju, as expected, but we have no idea what effect this had on LE. The protagonists (well, some of them) enter the new universe, sure, but then the 4 beta kids get stuck in a juju and the 4 alpha kids get stuck in Caliborn's dead session; the rest of the protagonists are unaccounted for or are getting sucked into a black hole. Hell, we still have absolutely no clue whether the protagonists or LE were victorious. How can people possibly say that only minor things were left unresolved? These are some of the least minor plot threads to leave unresolved that I can think of. It can hardly be considered a completed story. Of course, I'll be content if the epilogue does solve these issues, but generally epilogues aren't meant to resolve the main plot. But we'll see. Either way, Collide and Act 7 alone don't successfully resolve the story or introduce any significant twists. No one's saying Act Omega has fixed everything (I don't think), but it's on the right track. |
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Post by ashercrane on Mar 7, 2017 18:18:43 GMT
Can I point out, we don't actually know that someone will go back to being a ghost if the ring is taken off? Aranea got killed as soon as the ring was taken off, so theoretically, taking of the ring could just remove the immortality it grants, not unlive the person who was wearing it.
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inspiredsimji
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Post by inspiredsimji on Mar 7, 2017 22:29:15 GMT
Can I point out, we don't actually know that someone will go back to being a ghost if the ring is taken off? Aranea got killed as soon as the ring was taken off, so theoretically, taking of the ring could just remove the immortality it grants, not unlive the person who was wearing it. To be honest, we don't know a LOT of things about various mechanics in Homestuck. If something wasn't explained in canon due to Hussie's own failings as a writer, why not let fans make what they will of it? |
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Post by ten11 on Mar 7, 2017 23:24:35 GMT
It doesn't make you a bad writer to not explain all the specific mechanics in your setting.
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 8, 2017 0:37:35 GMT
It doesn't make you a bad writer to not explain all the specific mechanics in your setting. No, but explaining a mechanic, and then dropping/forgetting it entirely without reason does.(This is in reference to Roxy killing the supposedly immortal )(IC, not the Ghost Ring thing.) |
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Post by ten11 on Mar 8, 2017 3:14:46 GMT
Thats true
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Post by BookwyrmBOTPH on Mar 8, 2017 4:55:28 GMT
Can I point out, we don't actually know that someone will go back to being a ghost if the ring is taken off? Aranea got killed as soon as the ring was taken off, so theoretically, taking of the ring could just remove the immortality it grants, not unlive the person who was wearing it. If the ring doesn't send someone back to being a ghost when it's removed, it's the most broken as hell item in the whole game. Bring back all the dead trolls, hell just all the dead everyones. |
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 8, 2017 5:13:40 GMT
Can I point out, we don't actually know that someone will go back to being a ghost if the ring is taken off? Aranea got killed as soon as the ring was taken off, so theoretically, taking of the ring could just remove the immortality it grants, not unlive the person who was wearing it. If the ring doesn't send someone back to being a ghost when it's removed, it's the most broken as hell item in the whole game. Bring back all the dead trolls, hell just all the dead everyones. Because Sburb is such a balanced and well rounded game with no exploitable or broken mechanics. |
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Post by melonlord on Mar 8, 2017 6:29:04 GMT
If the ring doesn't send someone back to being a ghost when it's removed, it's the most broken as hell item in the whole game. Bring back all the dead trolls, hell just all the dead everyones. Because Sburb is such a balanced and well rounded game with no exploitable or broken mechanics. I don't think there's anything in Sburb proper quite so broken as "unlimited, unconditional revives for everyone". That's broken not just in a game sense but in an overall story sense. Why are we getting all worked up about LE's weighty and symbolic unconditional immortality when there's apparently a random artifact that can do virtually the same thing? Although, that angle could have been sort of interesting, had they done anything with it. The powers of a God, earned through an epic quest of sacrifice, laden with all sorts of grand and terrifying symbolism, matched by a simple creative exploit of a poorly thought-out revival arfifact. I doubt Hussie thought that far through, though. It probably just restores you to ghosthood once it's removed. |
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Post by ashercrane on Mar 8, 2017 13:19:29 GMT
Because Sburb is such a balanced and well rounded game with no exploitable or broken mechanics. I don't think there's anything in Sburb proper quite so broken as "unlimited, unconditional revives for everyone". That's broken not just in a game sense but in an overall story sense. Why are we getting all worked up about LE's weighty and symbolic unconditional immortality when there's apparently a random artifact that can do virtually the same thing? Although, that angle could have been sort of interesting, had they done anything with it. The powers of a God, earned through an epic quest of sacrifice, laden with all sorts of grand and terrifying symbolism, matched by a simple creative exploit of a poorly thought-out revival arfifact. I doubt Hussie thought that far through, though. It probably just restores you to ghosthood once it's removed. It's not like it appears in normal sessions anyway, and who cares if you can revive yourself over and over if you're in a broken session. |
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Post by gitaxian on Mar 25, 2017 3:13:47 GMT
No, but explaining a mechanic, and then dropping/forgetting it entirely without reason does.(This is in reference to Roxy killing the supposedly immortal )(IC, not the Ghost Ring thing.) Immortal doesn't mean invulnerable. The Handmaid had the exact same deal with LE, and )(IC was able to kill her. It's "agelessness" type immortality rather than invulnerability like Lord English himself. |
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