FuzzyWish
Nipper Cadet
mobius trip and hadron kaleido garbage
Posts: 79
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by FuzzyWish on Mar 30, 2017 5:27:17 GMT
Remake of the LET'S TALK CARAPACIANS thread! [because we died] Title really entails exactly that. slams hands onto tableCarapacians! One of the most vague species in the whole Homestuck universe! Let's talk about the shelled kiddos! here is a list of all the carapacians/closely related characters, all canon (if i forgot to include someone please tell me)
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 30, 2017 5:59:22 GMT
What I don't get is Dersite eyes. They're all white, so how do they let any light through to their retinas? Especially since their homeland of Derse is one of the darkest places around, they shouldn't be able to see a thing.
Also, tangentially related: I wonder if the Carapacian population of Earth C still clone themselves, or have they gone back to natural procreation. Are they even capable of re-adopting natural procreation? Did they have to genetically engineer their dongs back on?
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ten11
Gadabout Pipsqueak
Posts: 128
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Post by ten11 on Mar 30, 2017 6:00:05 GMT
Didn't BKEW make a post summarising all information we have on carapacians? It wasn't a theory one. An interesting point i remember him pointing out is that time WV had a dream that Vriska entered, but the thing is, we never see carapacians in any dreambubbles, so did that mean there was something different about his dream? Or was it just Vriska doing it somehow?
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FuzzyWish
Nipper Cadet
mobius trip and hadron kaleido garbage
Posts: 79
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by FuzzyWish on Mar 30, 2017 6:26:39 GMT
What I don't get is Dersite eyes. They're all white, so how do they let any light through to their retinas? Especially since their homeland of Derse is one of the darkest places around, they shouldn't be able to see a thing. Maybe that's just the thing. Animals that live in dark areas often times are blind or almost completely blind, because they don't have the need to see because it's already so dark!
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Mar 30, 2017 14:59:16 GMT
I feel like their Dersite eyes are completely white for the same reason Prospitian eyes are completely black with no sclera: Because it's really just a symbolic represntation and not actually how they look.
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Post by Gab on Mar 30, 2017 16:41:34 GMT
What I don't get is Dersite eyes. They're all white, so how do they let any light through to their retinas? Especially since their homeland of Derse is one of the darkest places around, they shouldn't be able to see a thing. It stands to reason carapacian eyes don't exactly operate the same way human eyes do, as they otherwise don't really resemble them. Plus Prospitians and Dersites are genetically engineered to look like each other's opposites. Prospitians even have black teeth to counter Dersite's pearly whites. Their eyes work the same way, but are oppositely colored. That said, you raise an interesting point. Maybe Dersites, or all Carapacians, have amazing abilities to see in dim light, without then being blinded by bright light like, say, emanating from Skaia. Or it could be light and shadow operates kind of weirdly in the incipisphere, because Derse never really seems that dark, even for the dreamers there. Much like the conveniently ambiguous electricity, gravity and atmospheric situations. Isn't cloning their natural procreation? That's what's interesting about them to me. Only the King and Queen of both sessions don't have barcode tattoos on their wrists, but even they are exactly identical to each other between Prospit/Derse pairs and across sessions. But even other high-up unique agents like Jack and friends have barcode tattoos, right along with foot soldiers on the Battlefield like WV. Didn't BKEW make a post summarising all information we have on carapacians? It wasn't a theory one. An interesting point i remember him pointing out is that time WV had a dream that Vriska entered, but the thing is, we never see carapacians in any dreambubbles, so did that mean there was something different about his dream? Or was it just Vriska doing it somehow? I'm pretty sure that was more like a normal dream, which Vriska had the ability to enter. That probably has to do with her being able to read the minds of others, and control their actions, even across universes. That natural ability, possibly combined with her God Tier abilities, allows her influence his thoughts by appearing in his dreams. Actually, I never quite knew how or why she was able to do that until I typed that paragraph. But that makes sense to me now I think of it. >.>
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 30, 2017 20:13:37 GMT
Isn't cloning their natural procreation? That's what's interesting about them to me. Only the King and Queen of both sessions don't have barcode tattoos on their wrists, but even they are exactly identical to each other between Prospit/Derse pairs and across sessions. But even other high-up unique agents like Jack and friends have barcode tattoos, right along with foot soldiers on the Battlefield like WV. Then why do they have porn and relationships that seem to be exclusively heterosexual, as if their gender is in some way relevant to the purpose of their relationships. In fact, why do they even have genders at all if they're just clones? Even the battlefield foot soldiers have genders.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Mar 30, 2017 20:53:22 GMT
Isn't cloning their natural procreation? That's what's interesting about them to me. Only the King and Queen of both sessions don't have barcode tattoos on their wrists, but even they are exactly identical to each other between Prospit/Derse pairs and across sessions. But even other high-up unique agents like Jack and friends have barcode tattoos, right along with foot soldiers on the Battlefield like WV. Then why do they have porn and relationships that seem to be exclusively heterosexual, as if their gender is in some way relevant to the purpose of their relationships. In fact, why do they even have genders at all if they're just clones? Even the battlefield foot soldiers have genders. Trolls have genders, yet gender does not seem to factor into reproduction; carapacians could be the same way. As for the heterosexual relationships, well, we've only ever seen a small sample size, it's entirely possible homosexual relationships do exist off-screen. (That said, the fact that WV and AR were both after PM and not each other and both seemed to understand the other's desire implies a certain level of heteronormativity, but who knows, maybe she's just particularly attractive in carapacian standards, and they found each other ugly.) Regarding porn, all we really see relating to any gender is The Gray Ladies, and for all we know females may enjoy that too. And considering the other carapacian porn we've seen and know of (licorice, hearts, and terriers), it seems like carapacian sexual attraction may be arbitrary, as if vestigial, or perhaps basing behaviours on some template that's not fully utilized.
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FuzzyWish
Nipper Cadet
mobius trip and hadron kaleido garbage
Posts: 79
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by FuzzyWish on Mar 30, 2017 21:09:04 GMT
Time to rename this thread 'Not Less Dong At All'.
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Post by ten 11 on Mar 31, 2017 9:27:22 GMT
I think carapacians can procreate normally, as they are generally meant to repopulate a plnet after its devestation.
Headcanon: S***b never picks the same planet twice, because of stuff like the frog temple and whatnot. Because of this, carapacians never end up playing S***b. Normally. If a group of carapacians did manage to get off-planet somehow, and play a session of their own, the game wouldn't be any different. It would still be a conflict between Dersites and Prospitans, which could lead to some very interesting situations like where a players is urged to turn on other people in their group, or how the public would feel about having an "enemy" as one of its nobles.
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FuzzyWish
Nipper Cadet
mobius trip and hadron kaleido garbage
Posts: 79
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by FuzzyWish on Mar 31, 2017 17:56:35 GMT
Headcanon: S***b never picks the same planet twice, because of stuff like the frog temple and whatnot. Because of this, carapacians never end up playing S***b. Normally. If a group of carapacians did manage to get off-planet somehow, and play a session of their own, the game wouldn't be any different. It would still be a conflict between Dersites and Prospitans, which could lead to some very interesting situations like where a players is urged to turn on other people in their group, or how the public would feel about having an "enemy" as one of its nobles. From a carapacians' roleplayer's perspective of it, that'd required a hell lot of code breaking.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 3, 2017 14:50:37 GMT
Headcanon: S***b never picks the same planet twice, because of stuff like the frog temple and whatnot. Because of this, carapacians never end up playing S***b. Normally. If a group of carapacians did manage to get off-planet somehow, and play a session of their own, the game wouldn't be any different. It would still be a conflict between Dersites and Prospitans, which could lead to some very interesting situations like where a players is urged to turn on other people in their group, or how the public would feel about having an "enemy" as one of its nobles. Wasn't it once stated that the Exiles are intended to repopulate the planet for botential reseeding or something like that, though?
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Post by Gab on Apr 3, 2017 15:58:32 GMT
I feel like there are holes in that theory. I mean, the frog temple on any given planet is linked to the specific session it came from! Can that really be recycled and reused in another eon? For that matter, does it need to be? All the sessions we've shown have been self-contained, with one exception we were told was unique, and another that was described as an unfortunate glitch.
I think that was a guess Terezi made about the exiles which she was mistaken about. To the game, they probably didn't have any greater relevance outside of what was afforded to them by the machines linked to the players. And even that could probably have been cut out without much loss. Whatever other time loops they help fulfill could have been done any number of other ways, like through the normal trials of a time player.
Aside from those machines, exiling almost isn't even a 'thing' to the game. There's no particular regimented process to exiling, it's a natural consequence of agents escaping the session through the only pathway available to them: portals to Earth. Skaia, I imagine, just dumps them in the future and gives them something to do to minimize trouble, but for the most part, whether they rebuild society is up to them, and out of Sburb's hands.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 3, 2017 18:47:11 GMT
I feel like there are holes in that theory. I mean, the frog temple on any given planet is linked to the specific session it came from! Can that really be recycled and reused in another eon? For that matter, does it need to be? All the sessions we've shown have been self-contained, with one exception we were told was unique, and another that was described as an unfortunate glitch. I think that was a guess Terezi made about the exiles which she was mistaken about. To the game, they probably didn't have any greater relevance outside of what was afforded to them by the machines linked to the players. And even that could probably have been cut out without much loss. Whatever other time loops they help fulfill could have been done any number of other ways, like through the normal trials of a time player. Aside from those machines, exiling almost isn't even a 'thing' to the game. There's no particular regimented process to exiling, it's a natural consequence of agents escaping the session through the only pathway available to them: portals to Earth. Skaia, I imagine, just dumps them in the future and gives them something to do to minimize trouble, but for the most part, whether they rebuild society is up to them, and out of Sburb's hands. Sessions can exist without a Frog Temple. Sburb was sent to players all over earth, either there were multiple frog temples or not every session needs a frog temple. After all it doesn't even enter the game with you. Once you've extracted the code for the game you don't really need the Temple.
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Post by melonlord on Apr 3, 2017 19:39:08 GMT
I think that was a guess Terezi made about the exiles which she was mistaken about. To the game, they probably didn't have any greater relevance outside of what was afforded to them by the machines linked to the players. And even that could probably have been cut out without much loss. Whatever other time loops they help fulfill could have been done any number of other ways, like through the normal trials of a time player. ...what possible reason could the story have to mislead the reader about the exiles, though? Like, it isn't a very important detail. There's no twist that depends on its resolution as payoff. Terezi isn't lied to about it, or revealed to be lying about it, and it wouldn't particularly matter even if she was. There is basically no reason to deceive the reader about the function of the exiles. What does the story gain by obfuscating this information? When someone's providing exposition, there's really no reason to arbitrarily assume they're wrong without cause of some kind.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 3, 2017 21:14:42 GMT
I think the whole thing here is just because Hussie changed his mind. Clearly he was making up Sburb's rules on the fly early on in the story, but as the story progressed and expanded his scope he either forgot about that idea entirely or quietly dropped it as he felt it didn't quite work for the direction he was taking the story in.
I reckon the whole thing started with his idea to work the readers' commands into the story itself and I think he invented the whole exile thing around that. Once the story's scope expanded, and Hussie took personal control of the narrative himself, the exile concept was just left to stand there on its own without justification, and as we've discussed here, there's a lot of weirdness with the whole idea and it doesn't fly that well.
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Post by ten 11 on Apr 4, 2017 1:00:52 GMT
Um, I'm not certain what we're discussing anymore. What i meant was that i dont think a planet would have multiple releases of Sburb at different times. Since Carapacians normally only exist on planets that have already been bombarded, they arent able to play Sburb. If they could get into a session, then a bunch of interesting scenarios would arise.
I think exiles are an intended aspect of the game, since the exile stations are a thing. What would the purpose of giving each players' meteor a specific construct inside it if they werent meant to be used?
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 4, 2017 14:06:25 GMT
Um, I'm not certain what we're discussing anymore. Ok, I took the time to find the quote I was referring to. From this page: Thus, according to Terezi at least, carapacians are supposed to play Sburb. And the conversation has went on from there.
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Post by Gab on Apr 4, 2017 16:30:39 GMT
Sessions can exist without a Frog Temple. Sburb was sent to players all over earth, either there were multiple frog temples or not every session needs a frog temple. After all it doesn't even enter the game with you. Once you've extracted the code for the game you don't really need the Temple. I guess that's a fair point, but it's heavily implied the only session on Earth to be successful was the one played by John and friends. Most playing didn't even enter the medium. Now that's not to say it isn't impossible, but that combined with the frog temple, which also has that lotus linked to the one session, leads to that being the likelier theory, I think. Um, I'm not certain what we're discussing anymore. Sorry, that's my fault. This is something I've been thinking about, and since it was related to exiles (who are carapacians) I thought it would be okay to bring up here. Ok, I took the time to find the quote I was referring to. From this page: Thus, according to Terezi at least, carapacians are supposed to play Sburb. And the conversation has went on from there. See this is what I mean. On its face this completely contradicts how Sburb is known to work. But I guess looking at it it doesn't specifically say Sburb technology is recycled. It only says that the planet is still alive, and will be seeded by the meteors of another session. Which we HAVE seen happen with Caliborn. It's not necessarily that carapacians would become players (which is not EXPLICITLY impossible, but they are incapable of captchaloguing things, upon which the game is founded), but they keep the planet 'alive' I guess, for when some alien race discovers and moves in. Maybe? I don't know if that makes a lot of sense either. See this is what I mean, it doesn't really add up elegantly. But that's okay. Exiles were still a cool way to expand the story early on, and are some of the most charming characters in the story, so it's still worth it.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 4, 2017 19:38:15 GMT
See this is what I mean. On its face this completely contradicts how Sburb is known to work. How so? Granted, there is the issue of the frog temple and first guardian, but a session could simply ... not make a first guardian and not send out a frog temple and nothing else would change. Sburb is shown to have an amazing level of adaptability, even going to the point of completely changing the game in a dead session, the minor change of removing the frog temple and first guardian creation would be pretty minor in comparison. I don't think the carapacians really need to be there to keep the planet 'alive' for future sessions, after all, Caliborn's session happened long after any inhabitants of Earth were long gone. As for captchaloguing things, given John's finding of alternate fetch modus cards and the control deck in particular, captchaloge systems seem to be some sort of technology. As such, it's not so much that carapacians can't captchaloge things, but rather that they don't have that particular technology. There's no reason to believe they couldn't develop such a system after being exiled (or perhaps reverse engineer it from the old civilization's ruins). In the Midnight Crew intermission, we see that the exiles have developed a sort of card-based inventory system; perhaps this could be seen as an early version of what would have eventually developed into captchaloge cards had the universe not been destroyed first.
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Post by ten 11 on Apr 5, 2017 3:21:40 GMT
Thats actually a really interesting idea about Captchalogue Cards. They never really get explained in Homestuck,(nor would i expect them to) but i now really want to see a fanventure that explores that mechanic in detail. I think it has a lot of potential.
Back to Carapacians, I think that when they are cloned, they begin with knowledge about the general workings of the game and world, so there's only a very small period of time before they join either the army or society.
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Post by ten 11 on Apr 12, 2017 3:01:53 GMT
Another interesting thing about Carapacians playing a session: they would be able to use the Queens' rings and the Kings' staffs. That would be cool.
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