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Post by Wessolf27 on May 28, 2017 11:55:18 GMT
Well, our protag's eventually going to develop more powers as he grows. Like, that's sorta an Aether thing. So the more he finds himself as a person, the more he gains a capacity to use other elements. And as for the discovering their element, relapses could reveal a person's element, but even without a relapse, a Feral could find their element once they have a sort of epiphany. Keith found his desire to not be idle and start protecting those he cared about, discovering his ability to use those dark powers. Others found it in a desperate situation and just tried to see what's the first thing that could come up.
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Sanatariums are generally supposed to be built like mental hospital wards, though I admit quite a few of them have to be built with elemental baggage in mind, and there weren't any restraining devices invented against magic yet. It was still something that was being worked out back then. And the thing is, most mental wards don't really look like St. Olga's Ward for Demented Patients (if you catch my reference).
For the most part, Sanatariums don't usually look like horrible jails and scary locations. If anything, they look more like health clubs... with large men in protective gear, and soldiers patrolling the perimeters. Most of the activities done there are to de-stress, tests are performed willingly, and family and friends could drop by to visit if they wanted to (behind a large reinforced wall of course). There are even certified therapists who would speak to newcomers and residents through speakers. It's just that the horror of these places come from much deeper, from some of the more unethical experiments and treatments being done in secret. (Also, quality of care wildly varies and depends on various factors.)
Can't say much about government conspiracies. It could be, or it could not. There's more than just political prisoners behind the facade of paradise.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 28, 2017 17:05:52 GMT
Does magic have any natural outlets? Beyond giant crystals in temples and animals learning how to manipulate their own emotions somehow, are there any minerals or plants that either give off Aether or it's related elements, or perhaps even enhances certain abilities?
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 2:44:08 GMT
It's possible considering that the elements exist as things found in nature (and the nature element itself are plants and other things)
But I'm not yet sure if there will be magically powered plants and elementals. Still, no reason why they might not exist.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 6:04:04 GMT
Well it would a reason for fear and for Sanitariums to be far away. Get a bit more of an evil vibe maybe. After all, you either stay, or risk going completely Feral in the wild cause you stepped on a flower.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 9:32:21 GMT
Heh, unless they're really close to some natural Aether deposit (Temples are somewhat controlled, in the way that they sort of act as giant containers and channels of the crystal's own Aether), I doubt that plants and animals would be so affected as to cause a person to be turned into a Feral.
The most common scenario for a person to become a Feral is through the old "Feral bite" method. Instances of humans becoming Ferals in other ways only come about through full exposure to said Aether deposits, or direct access to the Temple Mothercrystals.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 10:18:04 GMT
Can humans build a tolerance like the old races? While the Old Races were spawned from Aether and naturally aren't affected it seems, humans seem to have come about a different way and are susceptible to Feralism to begin with.
Is this going to have a zombie movie trope like one person is immune, and the government wants their head for the cure? Sounds like a way for the Laelaps to be continually after the characters, giving reason for a long story arc of them trying to escape.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 10:36:39 GMT
Feral immunity is probably not gonna be likely. The thing sorta has a tendency to be tailor-made to the person, due to the whole thought and emotion deal. Whatever it is that's gonna be bugging you is most likely going to show up as a symptom... somehow. (Because of this, I'm slowly starting to reconsider if Ferals might also have other animal types besides just Mammals, Reptiles, and Birds...) There's always gonna be something that bugs people at the back of their heads, and that's usually more than enough for the most part.
Though I guess if you're a kid, since your fears are a bit simpler, they tend to end up having an easier time of coping through the illness?? Like, they could eventually move on from the incident enough to not let it affect them as much? It's a very weird illness and sometimes it doesn't really make as much sense as I would like it to.
As for humans coping with Aether, well... it's probably gonna be likely if you count decades of evolution that would make humans more tolerant of it. But it's probably more likely that they'd eventually invent some technology (or research ancient tech) that can negate the effects of Aether on the body. (Heck, same tech could also help with the Feral problem too, somewhat.)
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 10:44:31 GMT
That's what I thought. But expanding Feral types will be more beneficial to the story as a whole I would think. It would give reason for Laelaps to be trained beyond any normal standard to fight Ferals, and perhaps have multiple sectors to deal with certain types. Aquatic, airborne, and land based sectors perhaps? Call them aqua, sora, and terra just as a joke? or go for latin, make them mysterious. Just a thought.
I would think however that kids might be even more susceptible though. Early childhood trauma tend to linger for longer than any other, and needs multiple years of counseling just to get it under control. I guess that just comes down to personality in the end.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 11:11:37 GMT
(lol)
Hrmm... true. Though maybe some kids were unluckily lucky enough to be cursed into a Feral with a lot less trauma involved? Yeah, it could also be personality too.
And sure on the Laelaps thing, though I'm probably not gonna Latin-it-up with everything about it.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 11:15:33 GMT
Aw. No shady and mysterious shadow corp in latin for us. Oh well.
Well, what about the multi-scape ferals though? Whenever I imagine them, I see a group being controlled as a way to eliminate humans. Maybe humans were around before, and the earth remembers what they did?
Assuming that the world in the story is the earth WE have now.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 11:50:26 GMT
(just gotta say, Laelaps is part of an international peacekeeping corps, so it's not exactly doing stuff for evil reasons, it's just that Ferals are still considered threats whose impact must be as minimal. Also, like all military organizations, can be prone to bouts of excessive force, questionable morals, and gray decisions.)
Also also, the world is not Earth. Actually, I sorta dropped the name of the planet by virtue of the Therans, so it's Thera. (Yes, it's Earth with letters mixed up, but Thera is also the name of a Minoan island, so... eh?) The place has two suns and all that, so expect Tatooine-y stuff to happen.
Finally, that was actually a thing in my story. It was definitely vengeance for something humanity did, but it wasn't the planet mainly doing the revenge stuff in the beginning. (Though in hindsight, it ended up doing something like that anyway... huh)
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 12:00:13 GMT
Ideas are never easy to change once you interlink a bunch of them and base things on aspects of those other ideas. Too bad, would've been interesting if everything was against the protag, including thera itself.
Any plans on having the Ferals revert in any way? Regain their lost humanity after something happens? Would be a nice way to just throw a curveball out of nowhere to find out a character that was believed to be dead or feralized just pops back up as a Deus Ex Machina. "Oh no, we are trapped in this facility full of things that want to kill us! Oh, Character B, you are alive! And you have the codes to escape? Yay!" Sounds cheap and cheesy like a bad burger, but would be unexpected for anyone who doesn't read any of this before reading the story.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 12:31:49 GMT
Well, transformations only go one-way, at least on the physical side of things... Unless someone could use Aether in such an intricate way as to perfectly return a person without sorta fudging up their genetic structure in a way that they might end up with something worse. So, technically... it's actually probable, but it's very very unlikely. (Like, Deus Ex Machina level of unlikeliness).
The liquid crystals in the bloodstream? That's definitely something that will have to be cured in the story. And Temple delving is part of that, also, other similar actions such as infiltrating research labs, and confronting the guys who made it spread more.
The mental transformation? It's possible, but it's complex and personal. If the person can find a way to change some of that perception that has turned them into a Feral, then they could generally control the disease in a way that less berserk moments happen. (Which is why therapy is so important for them.) Other than that, just good old-fashioned character development.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 12:38:56 GMT
So you are saying that it is possible... I sense something of an ending here.
So how about the actual attributes of ferals then? You said that Cosmos feral will seem to glitch like game characters, teleporting and looking funky. Spirit will be immortal until someone just sucks the Aether out of them and takes away their powers. What about the others? Darkness will be stealthy, hunting people in cities in the dead of the night? Will water exhale clouds of poison mist and act as a healer for other ferals? I'm now immensely curious.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 14:19:51 GMT
Ah, asking about the abilities of elements are we? Well, the two about Cosmos and Spirit sorta only pertain to Feral Wastelands, as in they're like overflowing with so much Aether energy that they act like walking manifestations of a disaster waiting to happen (which, fun fact: in many myths, monsters were the embodiments of disasters and dangerous locations! So Wastelands are actually an apt name for them) So, if you're looking at a Fire Wasteland, it'd be like standing next to a miniature sun (or at the very least, a walking lava monster), Water Wastelands are like fountains of water (or in worse cases, deadly diseases and filth) that won't stop spewing whatever it is they're spewing. Aaaaand, you can probably guess some of the other ones. Basically, they're eldritch abominations, and you probably really want to run away from these. Like... RUN AWAY As for Feral magic powers... they sorta follow the same system all magic users do (at least if they're in that furry phase because that's probably the only stage where they can actually control magic at all.) I'll probably just list down quite a few of the stuff that you can do with certain elements in a sort of Hussie-ish manner. Fire grants you empowering and invigorating magic that makes you more willing to do stuff, as well as your typical burning and exploding magic that you'd expect from Fire magic. RPG-wise, they grant a lot of damaging and offensive-empowering spells.
Water has a few offensive spells too, but they're usually not all that powerful unless you're talking about huuuuge quantities of water, which is pretty much, yeah. Water's more about healing (and poisons, and diseases) and maybe even letting you breathe underwater, and make it rain, or fog, or whatever water-related weather phenomena you want. Spell-wise, they sorta look like White Mages with really sadistic streaks (if they wanted to, which they normally wouldn't. Also Water magic doesn't magically cure all diseases, please consult your local physician before using it, as it can lead to side-effects such as bloating, overhydration, dizziness, nausea, severe fevers, drowning on land, and death.)
Earth typically creates structures and obstacles. If you want to, think Earthbenders from AtLA. They've also got stuff that can help reinforce something, like your wall of earth, or your skin, or other stuff. They also have abilities to destroy said obstacles if they need to. (They basically dictate the flow of the battlefield, sorta like how they want to dictate how society should be like)
Air is all about getting you anywhere you want to be, so most of the stuff it has is enhanced mobility. You wanna jump high? You can jump really good. You wanna reach that place? You'll reach it. They've also got stuff like removing air, turning into air, and creating pressurized balls of force. And you can also do tornadoes if you really want to. Nobody's the boss of you. It also lets you sense the air and weather, even control it like a champ.
You already got Lightning, lots of telepathy and chain-lightning, and spreading stuff. It also lets you zip past everything in... well, a flash. You could probably even do a lot of Flash-like stuff like phase through walls (so long as they don't insulate against electricity, which would be like smacking yourself at the speed of a bullet train, which is ow.)
Frost is all about freezing or stopping things. It could probably stop anything except time. You wanna stop your lover from meeting an untimely death by falling? You can do that by making something to catch their fall. You wanna make that annoying dude shut up? You can shut him up for a while with a little brain-freeze. You need to make sure that you don't miss that really good play on the Superbowl? You... could? But seriously dude, just watch it on the net. Other than that, Frost typically has a lot of ice-related powers like making stuff more slippery than a rotten banana peel and making it cold enough for you to make ice cream without a freezer. It's really handy.
Nature acts very hippie in a way. It's mostly plant manipulation (so no points guessing which Temple's probably ridden with all those Feral-making plants you thought about) but you can do a lot of things with plants anyway, since there are a huge category of plants available, and a lot of them are really really useful for anything you need really. Need a drink? Make a coconut tree. Need something to eat? Make a coconut tree. Need something to launch your enemies into the stratosphere? Make a coconut tree. Seriously, consider the coconut! Joking aside, Nature as an element is really versatile, you could patch someone's wounds with it, use it for making things grow, deal poisons, use the bark for defense, or pelt your enemies with giant coconuts...
Metal doesn't really have anything fancy like all the other elements and their flashy powers. Most of the stuff they do is just imbuing something with the power of another element, giving it those qualities. Other than that, Metal could create mirrors to reflect things back, and be a really good shield. Also, you could probably make yourself rich??? Though... oh, wait no, gold sorta got devalued for a long time now, and diamonds are pretty common due to the whole artificially created zirconium thing. Oh well. Much of the really good metal magic anyway comes from making whatever you practice and hone a lot easier to pick up and accomplish, like a sort of memory recorder.
Light has a lot to do with illusions. Not really smoke and mirrors sorta stuff, more like actual visual and aural illusions that play tricks on your mind. Making people see and hear things that don't actually exist. That's the main thing about Light powers. Other powers it has are truesight, which allows them to actually see through bullshit. They are really direct like that. Oh yeah, don't forget giant laser beams of death. That's also a thing for them.
Darkness has a lot of the sneaky and hiding in the shadows stuff that most people associate it with. However it does not have anything to do with communing with demonic forces, or anything evil-related. Rather, most of its powers are protective in one way or another. Heck, sometimes, they can even create barriers that can protect against some powerful stuff. You could also go invisible if you wanted to, or make people blind. Up to you.
Cosmos has a lot to do with Time and Space magic, so you might expect that there'd be a lot of time-and-space travelling involved. Unfortunately, no. That's super advanced stuff that's almost downright impossible to recreate at the moment. And even if they were able to do so, it takes way too heavy a toll on the mage for them to even time-travel to a few minutes back. So most of this magic is actually teleportation, creating weird temporal distortions (where time isn't in sync with the rest of the world) or spatial distortions (like folding space to make wormholes). Even in ordinary hands, this sort of magic is really creepy. (Also, the most time-travelling people can probably do with this is by virtue of looking into the past or the future, though the visions are muddied by perceptions, so it can show possible pasts and futures with clarity, their probable causes and effects, but they might not show you what exactly happened/can happen)
Spirit is probably like the Magikarp of the elements. It allows for stuff like luck and fate to be changed, so it falls on the level of being very Deus Ex Machina. Heck, it's powers are more or less stuff like temporary immortality/invincibility, being really lucky, and being able to revive the dead. However, there are always a catch with this sort of magic. It either takes a bit of your life whenever you use it, or you can only call upon it when you're in what you perceive as "dire straits". Like if you're in a situation where everything is falling to pieces and you're so desperate to do anything just so that you can turn things around for even a small moment. Otherwise, you're just inviting yourself to a quick death. (So in many ways, using this element is very much a gamble for the most part. A Spirit Wasteland however is sorta like if someone turned on all the cheat codes and ended up glitching the game so hard that your character is literally broken.)
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 15:16:09 GMT
Too bad about darkness and spirit. Sounds somewhat unlucky(or is it) to get either of them without someone to back you up. But I guess that they all have counter parts that work well with each other. Opposites attract each other here it seems.
Couldn't Metals still get rich? Just carve a sword out of a plank, imbue it with a strong metal, and sell it? I see Metals being merchants for warriors and the like if it were ye olde times.
Is that all fire does? Seems a little short of a description. Although if it is paired with any other element, fire just boosts it. So it is actually fine if it makes all other possible elements stronger. Never mind.
And I really am not sure about what I said before about the setting. It seems ever so slightly post-apocalypse. I mean if the first time a Wasteland broke out and no one knew what it did, I would think there are quite a few abandoned cities where the first Wastelands came to be where everyone else was.
What and who was patient zero though? Darkness? Spirit?
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 15:38:27 GMT
Well, admittedly, I'd like to add more with Fire, but it's main desire is trying to become something like a beacon of inspiration, and being able to make a change and stuff. (It's probably why it's really common actually) And to be fair, most of the stuff you do with fire other than destroy stuff are useful stuff like cooking, forging, melding, heating stuff, smoke cigars, and other things that are also part and parcel of what fire does in the story, but probably aren't all that exciting when you're thinking about it in RPG terms. So in the end, a lot of the magic comes off as being pretty simple other than boosting others.
Metals definitely do... though because of the overabundance you kinda end up wrecking the market. It's... probably why magic-made metals are probably considered less valuable than normal metals. (Admittedly though, it also made society back then advance faster thanks to how it's fairly easy it is to make it.)
As for the setting being post-apoc, it technically is. But Wastelands are sorta new... (though now, I'm starting to reconsider. Wow, thanks, that actually explains something I've been having problems answering right now.) So... they're technically new now. It's just that they were there before, then the magic dried up enough that all the Wastelands sorta died, and then it helped people recreate society for a while... at least till the magic started coming back again.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 15:51:27 GMT
Well, you gotta know your enemies. What they do drives the story more than the good guys most of the time. But metal becoming less valuable makes sense. But I think then that it becomes a matter of quality over quantity. If any Metal can make basic iron, you want the ones who can make steel and high quality wiring stuffs. Maybe even find one who can go beyond normal limitations on metal itself, making alloys blacksmiths have wet dreams about.
You are right on fire. Really, it seems like anybody and everybody has a little of it. Motivation to go day to day in a world where a Wasteland could kill you would have to be pretty strong already, meaning that it would be one of the first elements anybody gets if they enter the "Furry Phase". Why not call that the Transmutation stage instead? Seems a little awkward to speak out loud.
Which makes me have a thought about earlier: Why not order gods into common to rare? Fire would be at the top, with spirit and cosmos at the very bottom despite powers. Patron god to all and the like, or do the opposite. Worship the rare and such and ignore what everybody has. Cosmos would still be the top dog at that point, but spirit would be up there with him. Or keep the current standing. Seems more original.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 16:07:51 GMT
Well, it probably is called the Transmutation stage. To be honest, I just called it the "Furry Phase" because one, it's a deregatory term in-universe for it, and two, because I have no idea what to call that phase. (So again, thanks)
As for the gods, well... for one, Engki is more or less the eldest among the twelve, and sorta is a big deal considering the fact that he holds domain over the Greater Sun and is also the Arbiter (as in the Arbiter of the Dead) he judges people's souls, has a huge library containing the fates and lives of every single person (and maybe creature... tbh, some of them can get really boring... which is why he's always so stern-looking, like an owl) and a long time ago accidentally killed their collective parent in what is technically a fishing trip in negative space where nothing supposedly exists. So to atone for that, he basically takes on top god billing and pulls double duty by trying to light up the world at day and being a judge of souls at night. Yay?
Clerya (Spirit) is also known as "Mother of a Thousand Hopes". In other words, she's basically similar to our "Lady Luck", mixed in with being a deity of lost and/or desperate causes. There's a few stories about her, but she's one of the goddesses that get prayed to a lot.
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 16:10:34 GMT
I see. What about the others? Is it all just seniority over each other?
And your welcome. Furry phase just seems a bit strange and might drive away anybody confused by it that comes here.
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 29, 2017 16:18:52 GMT
I'll talk about that later since it's 12 AM over here, but one thing I needed to add.
As of the time of the story, the Wastelands that pop up have been more or less been sorta minor Wastelands that at most level the whole city block before turning into a giant block of crystal. (...I actually forgot to mention that detail... huh) And they have been sorta few and far between considering that most Ferals sorta die before entering the Wasteland stage due to their blood congealing into crystals and or, the transformation into a Wasteland killing them before they even become one. Like, Wastelands are freak incidents most of the time, but the sort of things they do are so horrifying in their mindlessness that they're treated as a big deal. (Also, ancient logs during the period of the Cataclysm. Fun times.)
Which is why Laelaps has such a huge shoot-on-sight policy when it comes to most Feral escapees and those who have displayed signs of having been rabid several times (which is pretty easy when you notice the crystal growths on their bodies).
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 29, 2017 16:21:34 GMT
Alright then. Good night or what have you.
Question you don't need to answer now but just so this post stays relevant: Is power related to how big of a crystal a Wasteland becomes?
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 30, 2017 3:47:45 GMT
Who knows? Though it's a little weird that everything that Aether touches becomes crystalline, doesn't it?
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Camios
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Post by Camios on May 30, 2017 5:20:29 GMT
I wouldn't think so. Magic in multiple universes always seems to have various forms from natural flowing under currents of the world to refined, processed, and stable physical form. However, this raw yet somewhat stable form of Aether, from what you are implying, is unnatural in existence and has a reason behind why it is like it is. Care to elaborate?
I am still curious about how the gods are ordered if not by rarity or importance. Is it really just order of birth?
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Post by Wessolf27 on May 30, 2017 5:54:42 GMT
Admittedly, I've been avoiding the former question because it's got a lot of implications on the nature of the crystals found all over Thera. (Though you can probably guess what it is now...)
As for who gets the billing of top gods or otherwise, it's not exactly by birth order exactly, nor is it by rarity and importance. The twelve gods are just sorta on equal footing in terms of power and importance. Engki was decided as top god only due to how stories tend to look at him as the new king of gods (Sort of like how even though Ra is considered the top god in the Egyptian pantheon, it's usually Osiris or Horus who are considered the leader of the current set of gods)
(Also, I tend to avoid that question because it really depends on which race you're referring to. Talahen Therans who live near the Fire temple and around snowy regions tend to worship Aphoris (Fire) as a giver of life more than any other god. While the Unden who live among the various islands (especially the Undean Archipelago) worship Vakna (Water), Rodona (Nature), and Clerya (Spirit) as triplicate goddesses.) Along the same vein, most consider Engki (Cosmos) to preside over the dead, while Durva (Frost) acts as the warden who keeps the dead in, and Fulmina (Lightning) as the psychopomp and messenger (a role very similar to that of Hermes)
The only one who presides over the twelve gods is the Creator--Nevos. And they are sorta... dead-ish. (Having no physical form anymore and all that)
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