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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 4, 2016 17:50:06 GMT
(a TVTropes link can change your life). I too discovered homestuck from TVTropes (it's difficult to read that wiki for long without encountering a Homestuck link... and it's notoriously difficult to not read that wiki for long once you discover it). I'm wondering how many people discovered Homestuck from TVTropes... so, why not ask?
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 4, 2016 17:51:44 GMT
I just discovered Homestuck from people talking about it on the Internet. For several months I thought it was some weird bullshit that made no sense.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 4, 2016 17:54:34 GMT
I just discovered Homestuck from people talking about it on the Internet. For several months I thought it was some weird bullshit that made no sense.
I created a thread for this, please post there
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Post by plainWonder on Apr 4, 2016 18:43:57 GMT
EOA6 will show how Caliborn's and Lord English' timeline passes over into each other, if at all. I realized that that is what also happened in EOA5 (Cascade), for Bec Noir. It was shown how he got from the B1 session to the A2 session.
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Post by DJay32 on Apr 4, 2016 19:04:30 GMT
cookiefonster, if it helps, hearing the context for ipdg's comment makes it clearer (I think) what she meant. As she admits to not having read the final panels, then I'd say when she says DaveKat is "endgame" she doesn't mean "literally present at the end of the story," as she likely doesn't know that. She, then, just means that it is canon for this present part. Which still counts as "endgame," much as one might say a video game's final level is "endgame."
At least. That's how I've been taking her statement all this time, and it's made me personally not see it as a spoiler, since she's describing a ship that is presently happening.
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Post by kmsumrall on Apr 4, 2016 19:07:14 GMT
I hope Huss updates at Three in the Morning. It'll be quite the Dead Shuffle. LE has gone all Jokers Wild and is a bit Tall Dark and Loathsome. Bec Noir is dripping with Liquid Negrocity but is gonna have trouble with PM and her Knives and Ivory. Spades Slick will be Livin' It Up if he survives his fight, and seeing as he is a bit of a Cuestick Genius he'll make a Hollow Suit outta Union Jack.
Dirk is gonna have a Hearts Flush when he takes some Moonshine to up the Ante Matter and deal his Ace of Trump when they are Drawing Dead.
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Post by karkat on Apr 4, 2016 19:32:28 GMT
i don't see how the next updates can make davekat not happen since it is 100% undeniably happening right now. also that would be tired queerbaiting that would make me feel sad
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 4, 2016 19:44:48 GMT
According to a Reddit post, IPGD said on 4chan that Davekat will be an endgame ship. I'm apparently the only one who's a wee bit skeptical about that claim. I mean, endgame ships aren't the kind of thing that you can spoil. What do you guys think about that? I'm not really sure anything that IPGD says should be taken as complete truth. Not to mention the fact that IPGD isn't like Andrew's close confidant or anything. Like, she talks to Hussie on occassion, but I highly doubt that Hussie is going to spill those kind of secrets to people. Unless it's in Homestuck proper or something that comes directly from Hussie, I don't take it as canon, personally.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 19:45:58 GMT
i don't see how the next updates can make davekat not happen since it is 100% undeniably happening right now. also that would be tired queerbaiting that would make me feel sad quite deniably if you want to also queerbaiting is when work promises depiction of lgbta+ relationship in it to get queers' attention when in reality there's no such a relationship present. if homestuck is a queerbaiting type of work then war and peace is an amateur's work that can be read in one day and easily forgotten afterwards
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Post by karkat on Apr 4, 2016 19:49:53 GMT
but having a gay romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed is still queerbaiting regardless of how many other gay relationships are still in the work. its not as bad then but it's still tiring
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 4, 2016 19:55:24 GMT
Honestly, I think that it is already undeniably canon. Granted, they haven't actually said that in bold type or anything, but considering the way we have seen their relationship portrayed, the obvious subtext and the downright foreshadowing in Homosuck, I consider Davekat undoubtably canon. Anything else would be pretty insulting, and I would think that Andrew knows better than to lead people on like that, especially after Dave''s conversations about his sexuality and the serious climate around those conversations.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 4, 2016 20:09:13 GMT
Re: Davekat stuff:
If IPGD means "currently canon" when she says "endgame" then that may be misleading wording. Saying they like to kiss and are in love and shit like that, however, gives me the wrong vibe. I still don't see them as a gay couple despite the hints that arguably presently make them a canon ship. It just doesn't feel that real given their interactions, you know?
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Post by sawkinator on Apr 4, 2016 20:11:56 GMT
(a TVTropes link can change your life). I too discovered homestuck from TVTropes (it's difficult to read that wiki for long without encountering a Homestuck link... and it's notoriously difficult to not read that wiki for long once you discover it). I'm wondering how many people discovered Homestuck from TVTropes... so, why not ask? Heh, makes me think of how people would put a 'TVTropes Warning' in posts on the MSPA forums so people could avoid that fate. Yeah I'm not really sure about DaveKat either. I still really like Karezi and I think they had much more development and buildup together over the comic; Dave and Karkat really only got so close post-retcon and all that development was fast-forwarded through in one flash and just makes it less meaningful. But in the end it's just a ship in a webcomic. The only endgame ships I'm totally invested in are Everyone Happy Ending and LE Death/Defeat.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 20:17:43 GMT
It may not be that bad of a pairing (I honestly don't care about shipping and never did), but it's current execution is so cringeworthy that I don't even And all this ambiguity covering it isn't helping either. Like, we are so close to the end and when screen time gets wasted on more davekat teasing, when, for instance, Jane is still not an actual character, it's almost physically hurts me.
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Post by Gab on Apr 4, 2016 20:23:09 GMT
but having a gay romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed is still queerbaiting regardless of how many other gay relationships are still in the work. its not as bad then but it's still tiring Without getting into this debate that sprang up, there are already gay relationships in the story with Kanaya and Rose. So ?? Now there's that much more of a reason for Wednesday to occur. So this conversation will stop. Seriously, this nanopause is way worse than the gigapause and omegapause ever were.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 4, 2016 20:23:15 GMT
I have a feeling that if not for the weird way it's executed, I may be a lot more ambivalent towards Davekat, as many users here are.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 4, 2016 20:25:05 GMT
having a gay romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed is still queerbaiting I'm more inclined to toss this into the general "having a romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed" bin, which definitely is A Thing Writers Do; the fact that is a gay relationship seems to be completely irrelevant in the Homestuck setting, where everyone is pretty much ok with whatever sexual preferences one could have (trolls don't care at all, and all the humans involved have quite an open mind about the issue). BTW, I personally don't like DaveKat as more than moirails; that really wouldn't make a lot of sense (at least for me). But it's definitely possible that even they don't know exactly what their relationship status is; be it gay or straight, the limit between "friends" and "lovers" can be very blurry at times, and also very embarrassing for all the people involved.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2016 20:27:19 GMT
I hope Huss updates at Three in the Morning. It'll be quite the Dead Shuffle. LE has gone all Jokers Wild and is a bit Tall Dark and Loathsome. Bec Noir is dripping with Liquid Negrocity but is gonna have trouble with PM and her Knives and Ivory. Spades Slick will be Livin' It Up if he survives his fight, and seeing as he is a bit of a Cuestick Genius he'll make a Hollow Suit outta Union Jack. Dirk is gonna have a Hearts Flush when he takes some Moonshine to up the Ante Matter and deal his Ace of Trump when they are Drawing Dead. You are my current favorite person.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 4, 2016 20:28:28 GMT
It's kind of worth noting that there's such a thing as two best friends of the same gender who don't have serious romantic tension. Before the retcon Dave and Karkat were exactly like this. Which is part of what bugs me about the later insinuations that they suddenly are in some kind of relationship.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 4, 2016 20:36:50 GMT
They spent a lot of pre-retcon meteor trip fighting for Terezi.
Or in case of Dave, just being alone with Terezi. While Karkat spent the time doing nothing and feeling bad for himself.
This time around Terezi was convinced that she didn't need any of them and stayed mostly with Vriska so Dave/Karkat ended up developing something.
Sure, you can argue that Hussie didn't show the relashionship being built, but when did he ever?
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 4, 2016 20:39:40 GMT
To be fair, whether this is hearts of diamonds is still not canon, and Dave mentioning how he learned to feel natural about quadrants makes me feel toward the later. From in-universe perspective, a human having relationshipns in quadrants is more revolutionary than a gay relationship. Though it could be argued that John has that covered.
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 4, 2016 20:41:20 GMT
To be fair, I don't really think we need to see the two of them act like overt lovebirds in order for them to have a believeable romance. In my eyes, it's pretty obvious they care for each other, considering how they always talk about one another when they are not in each other's presence and, like I have said before about Davekat. In the pre-retcon timeline, they had a very close friendship, to the point where their influence on each other was pretty clear. So, having that kind of friendship blossom into romance doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me.
Overall, I am still pretty shocked that Davekat is such a polarizing topic on the forums out of all the current pairings out there. Like, how come there aren't as many discussions about DirkJake and its potential abusive nature, or JadeDavepetasprite^2?
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Post by mementovivere on Apr 4, 2016 20:49:20 GMT
having a gay romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed is still queerbaiting I'm more inclined to toss this into the general "having a romantic relationship hinted at and then deconfirmed" bin, which definitely is A Thing Writers Do; the fact that is a gay relationship seems to be completely irrelevant in the Homestuck setting, where everyone is pretty much ok with whatever sexual preferences one could have (trolls don't care at all, and all the humans involved have quite an open mind about the issue). BTW, I personally don't like DaveKat as more than moirails; that really wouldn't make a lot of sense (at least for me). But it's definitely possible that even they don't know exactly what their relationship status is; be it gay or straight, the limit between "friends" and "lovers" can be very blurry at times, and also very embarrassing for all the people involved. This is essentially how I feel about it... I don't think "queerbaiting" is quite the right term for a work that is chock full of canon queer relationships. As for the nature of Dave/Karkat's relationship, based on how people like Vriska talk about it (saying they're adorable "in whatever quadrant that whole situation settled in"), I personally suspect it's gonna be the kind of thing where they're NEVER confirmed as being firmly in any one quadrant, they're just kind of a vague red(ish) smudge. It would be the logical extension of Dave's whole monologue to John about how the lines of sexuality and relationships are blurrier than we give them credit for, it would be a fitting enough way for Karkat to develop past his previous state of always wanting to strictly define his and other peoples' relationships which leads to problems, and it would sort of be foreshadowed by Karkat's ancestor having a love that "went beyond the four quadrants, transcending the grid entirely". I mean, WOULDN'T a relationship that dips into all four quadrants kinda look like Dave and Karkat's? Two people who care about each other, support each other, help mediate their interactions with other people, act like best bros, get on each others' nerves at times, but who at the end of the day still care deeply about one another? I honestly never looked at it that way before writing this post, but once the relationship is viewed as an extension of Karkat's character development, it makes a lot more sense to me as a sudden plot point. Like Dave going from "constantly making gay jokes and trying to defend his masculinity" to "accepting that his ideas about masculinity and hangups about his sexuality were tied into his complex about heroism which relates back to his abuse from Bro", Karkat basically went from "obsessed with rigid relationship structures to a fault, even going so far as to make dating charts on multiple occasions" to "someone who spends so long around aliens that he gradually starts viewing relationships as less of a strictly-defined thing and is happier for it". It will probably end up tying in with the whole "Blood = interpersonal bonds" idea as well.
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 4, 2016 20:50:34 GMT
To be fair, I don't really think we need to see the two of them act like overt lovebirds in order for them to have a believeable romance. In my eyes, it's pretty obvious they care for each other, considering how they always talk about one another when they are not in each other's presence and, like I have said before about Davekat. In the pre-retcon timeline, they had a very close friendship, to the point where their influence on each other was pretty clear. So, having that kind of friendship blossom into romance doesn't seem all that far-fetched to me. Overall, I am still pretty shocked that Davekat is such a polarizing topic on the forums out of all the current pairings out there. Like, how come there aren't as many discussions about DirkJake and its potential abusive nature, or JadeDavepetasprite^2? Personally, I really don't see why best friends have to have the potential to turn into a romance. And yeah, it really is weird how Davekat is so much more debated than other topics. OK let's discuss the stuff you talked about. I'll be the first to chip in a piece of my mind unless I'm ninja'd which it totally possible. Dirk/Jake is a very popular ship, with many people shipping them completely unironically, but I guess rather than portraying them as a cute couple, the comic deconstructed the whole idea of a doofus being in a relationship with a crazy brainiac, with Jake shutting out Dirk but not breaking up with him, rather rambling about him and messing up friendships. Jake is himself kind of a deconstruction of the whole endearing doofus archetype.
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Post by karkat on Apr 4, 2016 20:53:40 GMT
dirkjake is pretty much over at this point, though i know people who still want it to happen, and davepetajade seems more like a one time joke thing for this moment, considering i don't think the sprites are gonna last much longer. davekat is popular because it is two very popular characters people interpret in dozens of different ways, and depending on their interpretations it could either be the best thing ever, or totally out of left field.
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