cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 2:28:58 GMT
As you all know I kinda hate on Dave and Karkat as a romantic pairing a lot. On the subreddit I've successfully built up a reputation as one of those obnoxious Davekat haters and I'm even considering leaving the subreddit out of people being really unfriendly about all this. I'm going to ask you guys: does me hating on that pairing make it unpleasant for me to be around here?
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Post by accipitrineOutlier on Apr 5, 2016 2:32:48 GMT
Not as long as it stays where it belongs and it's not all you talk about.
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 5, 2016 2:41:33 GMT
Eh, just keep in mind it's ultimately a comic. About fictional people that don't actually exist and don't take it that serious. I mean, seriously, whatever level of dislike you might have for the pairing, it's best not to get too worked up about it.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 2:46:18 GMT
Eh, just keep in mind it's ultimately a comic. About fictional people that don't actually exist and don't take it that serious. I mean, seriously, whatever level of dislike you might have for the pairing, it's best not to get too worked up about it. Yeah I myself thought about all this; maybe once the comic's over I'll stop whining about stuff that doesn't matter that much.
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 5, 2016 2:57:25 GMT
Eh, just keep in mind it's ultimately a comic. About fictional people that don't actually exist and don't take it that serious. I mean, seriously, whatever level of dislike you might have for the pairing, it's best not to get too worked up about it. Yeah I myself thought about all this; maybe once the comic's over I'll stop whining about stuff that doesn't matter that much. I can't remember the name of the old rule. It was something like "team friendliness." or uh... damn, I forget... But the only rule that should apply, or used to apply, was that people be cordial, polite, and approach things from a centerplace of friendliness. No need to get upset! No need to fight one another. Just respectfully share thoughts and ideas in a friendly manner and be polite. If we all respect one another and treat each other as friends, there's no need to really have a moderator. Act as adults and all that jazz.
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Post by karkat on Apr 5, 2016 2:59:28 GMT
youre bad and i don't like you
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Post by renegadeshroom on Apr 5, 2016 3:09:52 GMT
^ Well, that's a bit blunt. 0:
But, uh, it's like I said on the subreddit. You're entitled to your opinion, but repeating the exact same fruitless negativity (that being your views on Davekat) many times over makes it tedious and stressful to participate for both yourself and others, which I strongly advise against. You don't need to remove yourself entirely to avoid that, just... mind what you're saying.
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Post by candor on Apr 5, 2016 3:17:24 GMT
youre bad and i don't like you For every opinion someone has, there is someone who so thoroughly cannot deal with that opinion's existence that it'll be countered wherever seen, and the person stating the opinion will be insulted to boot. I suppose that's the origin of all rules regarding respectfulness on the internet. If only people respected those rules. EDIT: Also, why do we need two threads relating to one specific ship in addition to the shipping thread?
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Post by renegadeshroom on Apr 5, 2016 3:21:10 GMT
This thread's not about Davekat, it's about cookiefonster. (And how he relates to Davekat.) So I guess that maybe this could be in the wrong subforum?
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 5, 2016 3:22:30 GMT
General "rules"/basic conversation etiquette;
If you hate something, it doesn't have to be all your talk about, nor something you bring up at every available opportunity.
If people feel you are bringing it up and then complaining about the arguments, the best solution would be to stop bringing it up or talking about it. Avoid "last word syndrome". If someone off-hand mentions their opinions on Davekat, you don't have to share yours unless it was requested, and if it's being discussed in a conversation, you don't have to join in.
I skim over shipping stuff myself, so I never really formed an opinion, just going based on what others have said though it sounds like you may have a habit of introducing a Davekat launching pad and then complaining when the conversation hovers around it for too long. Such situations would be avoided if you just didn't bring it up in the first place, or ignored talking about it if you see other people talking about it.
For example, I love the retcons, but I get that other people hate them. I largely avoid retcon discussions/debates, though, because my enjoyment isn't relevant to those people or, often, the reason they are discussing it. Sure, I could pop in and tell everyone I think the retcons are great and try to convert them, but it's way easier for all involved if I just scroll on down and find something I want to talk about that doesn't cause extended bickering.
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 5, 2016 3:32:02 GMT
Well, look, bro. It's all about respect in the end. Remember that there's a person behind that wall of text with feelings and emotions, and that's all. I don't think you are a terrible person cookiefonster, so no worries there.
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Post by mementovivere on Apr 5, 2016 3:33:31 GMT
I think the main thing, cookiefonster, is moderation. If you don't like a ship, that's fine! And when it's appropriate, it's totally okay to voice your opinion. But since you asked for an honest opinion, it DOES seem like you bring it up a lot, and it seems like people in multiple places have picked up on that. Which isn't that unusual of a thing--without naming names, I can think of many different people who have voiced certain opinions of homestuck and around whom certain topics always coming up. I'm probably guilty of it with certain topics too! It happens, especially when we're extra invested in a particular aspect of the story. You just have to pay attention to when those patterns happen, and try to diversify the things you're interested in discussing. There's only so much you can say about something that you and other people have already discussed to death without getting a lot of new information from the narrative. At least after the Omegapause we've have some new Davepeta, Dave, and Karkat conversations to look over and get new information from, so I can understand the topic coming up some more, but now...? We basically know exactly as much as we did 8 months ago. If nothing else, any lingering questions we have about the events of Homestuck are most likely going to be answered in like 8 days, so we won't be able to debate for much longer. Until then, in my personal opinion: I think after a certain point you've just gotta accept that a story is the way it is, even if you don't like the direction it's going on. Maybe him writing "DaveKat is Canon" on a piece of paper and signing it is all a big joke, but... he rarely outright lies about story stuff, and usually leaves his language vague when he's being misleading. In reality, Hussie "trolls" people way less than his reputation asserts, and most things included in the story happen for a reason that becomes apparent later. You probably saw my post that suggested some plot-related reasons for the pairing that don't necessarily have anything to do with how good they are together. I'm gay and I definitely don't see disliking a ship as necessarily being a heteronormative thing (although it can be) but it does also seem like people don't argue about other ships quite as hard as with DaveKat, for whatever reason. Frankly I can kind of see where you're coming from as far as "I have a hard time seeing it", but like... after a certain point, it seems pretty clear that the story is pushing for it to be a thing, and denying it THAT devotedly can come across as just trying too hard. Everyone has something they dislike about the story--just scoff and move on, it doesn't have to be a big deal. Yeah I myself thought about all this; maybe once the comic's over I'll stop whining about stuff that doesn't matter that much. I can't remember the name of the old rule. It was something like "team friendliness." or uh... damn, I forget... But the only rule that should apply, or used to apply, was that people be cordial, polite, and approach things from a centerplace of friendliness. No need to get upset! No need to fight one another. Just respectfully share thoughts and ideas in a friendly manner and be polite. If we all respect one another and treat each other as friends, there's no need to really have a moderator. Act as adults and all that jazz. Yes Respect!!! It is my favorite rule, and ultimately is the main one that I think actually matters beyond tedious forum upkeep stuff. It's just not that hard to do. If you can't say anything constructive in at least a level tone, and just HAVE to say something insulting or dripping with sarcasm, it's usually better to just... not make a post! Or talk about something else instead. Wow, what a concept.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 11:03:41 GMT
So what I'm getting is:
It's OK if I don't like a pairing, I just shouldn't bring it up so much.
I'll just try to stray much from Davekat debates; I've already given the same views on it fuck knows how many times.
EDIT: Another thing I kinda wanna talk about is, some of my hating has been facetious exaggeration of views (oh no he has joined the dark side, when everyone changes their views to mine). Is that also something that can be annoying?
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 5, 2016 11:39:06 GMT
It can be annoying if it happens too often, or becomes difficult to distinguish between genuine and jokery. Tone doesn't carry very well in text without the use of emoticons and the like. Can be particularly aggravating to some folk if they are discussing in a serious manner because they might take it as insulting them if they think you're serious, or mocking their opinion if the tone comes across wrong. I tend to leave =P's when I make potentially upsetting jokes, or on these sites 's. The easier path, though, is to just think about whether the joke you're making is likely to upset anyone, or if it can be worded in a less aggressive-sounding manner.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 11:52:31 GMT
It can be annoying if it happens too often, or becomes difficult to distinguish between genuine and jokery. Tone doesn't carry very well in text without the use of emoticons and the like. Can be particularly aggravating to some folk if they are discussing in a serious manner because they might take it as insulting them if they think you're serious, or mocking their opinion if the tone comes across wrong. I tend to leave =P's when I make potentially upsetting jokes, or on these sites 's. The easier path, though, is to just think about whether the joke you're making is likely to upset anyone, or if it can be worded in a less aggressive-sounding manner. I think striking through a passage of text makes it fairly clear it's a joke.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 5, 2016 12:26:52 GMT
Shouldn't we merge this thread with the other Davekat one?
We have 3 shipping threads right now. Is it really necessary?
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 5, 2016 12:27:58 GMT
Well, like I said, I gloss over shipping talk so I'm speaking generally rather than laser-pointing at things I've noticed.
That said, striking can indeed give that air to a sentence, but it can also come across as sort of "I want to say this thing but I don't want to commit to it if people call me out so I'll strike through it as if I didn't really mean it"... Hard to describe what I mean.
Sort of like saying "just kidding" at the end of an offensive phrase in case anyone gets offended? I mean the way you describe it is totally valid, but it's not the only interpretation. Or maybe I'm just weird, I dunno.
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 5, 2016 12:29:23 GMT
This is kinda less about Davekat and more about clearing the air and trying to find a way to make the forums more pleasant all around, is all? It feels like if this were part of an actual shipping thread people who want to actually talk about the ships might think this is off topic.
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InternallyLactiad
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Post by InternallyLactiad on Apr 5, 2016 12:32:45 GMT
As you all know I kinda hate on Dave and Karkat as a romantic pairing a lot. On the subreddit I've successfully built up a reputation as one of those obnoxious Davekat haters and I'm even considering leaving the subreddit out of people being really unfriendly about all this. I'm going to ask you guys: does me hating on that pairing make it unpleasant for me to be around here? I'm a big Jade/dave shipper but it's really nothing to get worked up about. People are going to ship, and sometimes your not going to agree with that ship. No reason to feel out of place here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 14:14:21 GMT
About Making Jokes: I think what karkat meant was less "disliking the ship: and more"equating it to hell incarnate" that was the problem, cookiefonster. (karkat can back me up there.) I share the sentiment, if I may be honest. I don't mind when people dislike things I ship, especially when I don't have any rationale behind it except "If I was the author I would make these characters suffer SO HARD" but feeling shamed for just shipping it is rather an ill sensation. As is the feeling of being shamed for NOT shipping it, so I hope we haven't been making you feel that way, cookiefonster. I do ship Jane's Dad/Draconian Dignitary quite vigorously these days. Not that anybody asked. To add onto this, I don't think anyone who ships something should be attacked, even as a joke. I don't mind disdain for a ship, but scorn for anyone who ships (or doesn't ship) something strikes me as potentially insulting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 14:39:35 GMT
I share the sentiment, if I may be honest. I don't mind when people dislike things I ship, especially when I don't have any rationale behind it except "If I was the author I would make these characters suffer SO HARD" but feeling shamed for just shipping it is rather an ill sensation. As is the feeling of being shamed for NOT shipping it, so I hope we haven't been making you feel that way, cookiefonster. I do ship Jane's Dad/Draconian Dignitary quite vigorously these days. Not that anybody asked. To add onto this, I don't think anyone who ships something should be attacked, even as a joke. I don't mind disdain for a ship, but scorn for anyone who ships (or doesn't ship) something strikes me as potentially insulting. yeah, you're right. but it's much worse when that scorn isn't a joke at all. wanna hear a story? i just got banned from the biggest hs community in my language space for a month because admin decided it would be a good idea to insult everybody who is against idea of davekat just because "it's canon now so all haters suck", and then, when people in pretty quiet and polite manner accused them of it, there were bans galore for "insulting administration", even tho the only thing i personally did was like'ing one of those calm posts. so yeah, moral of the story - don't be a dick
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 14:53:24 GMT
To add onto this, I don't think anyone who ships something should be attacked, even as a joke. I don't mind disdain for a ship, but scorn for anyone who ships (or doesn't ship) something strikes me as potentially insulting. yeah, you're right. but it's much worse when that scorn isn't a joke at all. wanna hear a story? i just got banned from the biggest hs community in my language space for a month because admin decided it would be a good idea to insult everybody who is against idea of davekat just because "it's canon now so all haters suck", and then, when people in pretty quiet and polite manner accused them of it, there were bans galore for "insulting administration", even tho the only thing i personally did was like'ing one of those calm posts. so yeah, moral of the story - don't be a dick Holy shit, that's pretty messed up.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2016 15:07:31 GMT
yeah, you're right. but it's much worse when that scorn isn't a joke at all. wanna hear a story? i just got banned from the biggest hs community in my language space for a month because admin decided it would be a good idea to insult everybody who is against idea of davekat just because "it's canon now so all haters suck", and then, when people in pretty quiet and polite manner accused them of it, there were bans galore for "insulting administration", even tho the only thing i personally did was like'ing one of those calm posts. so yeah, moral of the story - don't be a dick Holy shit, that's pretty messed up. yup. and my best friend who is also into hs currently away on her vacations, so these forums, like, the only place where i can enjoy and discuss conclusion of homestuck now. Blaperile don't ban me pls
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Post by karkat on Apr 5, 2016 17:31:56 GMT
ban everyone
anyway but seriously cookiefonster im miffed at you not because of the ship but because you said something that was hurtful to me and immediately went on the defensive and never actually apologized for it. its a shitty thing to do and is totally not being respectful, so i don't feel like i should be respectful towards you anymore because of it. respect isn't something you have forever
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 5, 2016 17:38:52 GMT
ban everyone anyway but seriously cookiefonster im miffed at you not because of the ship but because you said something that was hurtful to me and immediately went on the defensive and never actually apologized for it. its a shitty thing to do and is totally not being respectful, so i don't feel like i should be respectful towards you anymore because of it. respect isn't something you have forever What did I say that was hurtful?
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