cookiefonster
Dead
TAKE US THEIR FRESH JIMMY
Posts: 723
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Post by cookiefonster on May 8, 2016 23:51:51 GMT
...what plot point would it be?
It can't be a thing related to character arcs or shipping or whatever, it has to be a specific plot point.
I would choose to resolve the mystery of where the kids in Caliborn's Masterpiece came from.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 9, 2016 0:19:24 GMT
That would be my biggest want too.
But for the sake of having another answer: I feel like that there a lot of the Homestuck Universe's "rules" that were just handwaved in and out as the plot required. E.g. The Condesce's supposed inheritable immortality that just disappeared in Collide without explanation, and how Die's doll worked differently at different times because the Felt needed to be back in the story(except they really weren't) and how Calliope and Jade seemingly just waltzed out of the Dream bubbles without explanation or precedent.
Having some more consistency with respect to these things, or at the very least, some sort of explanation for these sudden exceptions would've made the ending a bit better for me.
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Post by Neptz on May 9, 2016 1:11:17 GMT
I would choose to see what happens after Vriska uses the Juju. What if the Juju enhanced the kids' powers? What if they look SUPER AWESOME?  |
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Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on May 9, 2016 2:05:02 GMT
I just want Spades Slick to be alive in the end, which I am still holding out as a possibility because his death is just Grade A+ final BS.
I'd trade every loose end to have the grumpy bastard back.
But for untied points, I'd like to know what lead the Masterpiece as well, although I feel like the whole "Kurloz taking Vriska's coat" thing is a 15 point question on my Epilogue test. That shit is just cemented in my mind as far too little explored to be left hanging.
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soeroah
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
Posts: 174
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Post by soeroah on May 9, 2016 4:19:55 GMT
The Masterpiece would be one thing, yeah.
I think it might break the rules, but I'd want to get some clear information on how exactly retcon mechanics work in the first place. I love the idea, it just feels like I'm missing a puzzle piece or two.
Apart from that and the Masterpiece I can't actually think of too many plot points I consider "need" to be resolved, outside of Lord English's actual defeat/what the Treasure did.
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researcherwisemon
MOB1US DOUBL3 R34CH4ROUND
*Swooshy Energy Sounds*
Posts: 502
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Post by researcherwisemon on May 9, 2016 4:26:50 GMT
The Sprites- did any make it into the new Universe alive?
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Post by alleywaycreeper on May 9, 2016 6:21:18 GMT
I couldn't pick just one.
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Post by eruditeChronicler on May 9, 2016 12:35:28 GMT
Definitely Masterpiece. But other than that, my second would be a full explanation of the Classpect system, then an explanation of what happened to the Aradias, Solluxes, and Vriska, then what happened to the sprites. Although since the Mayor and PM (Who are game constructs) made it through, it is likely the sprites could have made it through as well. We know for a fact that one of the Nannaquins was on the Victory Platform with Dad Crocker, so I doubt John would have left her behind.
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Post by Neptz on May 9, 2016 16:47:01 GMT
The Masterpiece would be one thing, yeah. I think it might break the rules, but I'd want to get some clear information on how exactly retcon mechanics work in the first place. I love the idea, it just feels like I'm missing a puzzle piece or two. Apart from that and the Masterpiece I can't actually think of too many plot points I consider "need" to be resolved, outside of Lord English's actual defeat/what the Treasure did. It looks like retcon abilities are teleportation plus a "super time travel" that allows you to influence way much than a time travel clone. It's harder ot master than actual time travel, can't be done with a whim and if you play your cards right you can change the alpha, which is something that time travel can't do as you'd just splinter the timeline. It also makes you impervious to the effects of retconning the alpha timeline and it seems you can also travel to doomed timelines but I'm not sure? |
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Post by legendary on May 9, 2016 17:27:58 GMT
The Masterpiece would be one thing, yeah. I think it might break the rules, but I'd want to get some clear information on how exactly retcon mechanics work in the first place. I love the idea, it just feels like I'm missing a puzzle piece or two. Apart from that and the Masterpiece I can't actually think of too many plot points I consider "need" to be resolved, outside of Lord English's actual defeat/what the Treasure did. It looks like retcon abilities are teleportation plus a "super time travel" that allows you to influence way much than a time travel clone. It's harder ot master than actual time travel, can't be done with a whim and if you play your cards right you can change the alpha, which is something that time travel can't do as you'd just splinter the timeline. It also makes you impervious to the effects of retconning the alpha timeline and it seems you can also travel to doomed timelines but I'm not sure? Johnwent to the Intermission, and his arm can be seen there as well (which had multiple doomed timelines because only that inauspicious one where Slick talked to Karkat was alpha), as can the oil stains. Another oil stain is visible in the "Briska" sequence, in case anyone wants to argue that Felt stuff, being jujus, all counted as various levels of retconned alphas. So yep, doomed timelines check out. |
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Post by birdwords on May 9, 2016 18:08:53 GMT
That would be my biggest want too. But for the sake of having another answer: I feel like that there a lot of the Homestuck Universe's "rules" that were just handwaved in and out as the plot required. E.g. The Condesce's supposed inheritable immortality that just disappeared in Collide without explanation, and how Die's doll worked differently at different times because the Felt needed to be back in the story(except they really weren't) and how Calliope and Jade seemingly just waltzed out of the Dream bubbles without explanation or precedent. Having some more consistency with respect to these things, or at the very least, some sort of explanation for these sudden exceptions would've made the ending a bit better for me. I keep seeing people talk about the Condesce's immortality, but was it ever stated that she had unconditional immortality, and not just a really long life span? As for the OP question, I have to agree that for me the biggest one for me would have to be what kids were in the masterpiece. Though that then begs the question of if the kids in the masterpiece died in Act 7, so I guess that my plot point, for the sake of being different, is essentially, what actually went down in the final confrontation with Lord English? I want to know what the fate of everyone involved was, though maybe that's a bit broad and stepping into character territory. |
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
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Post by The One Guy on May 9, 2016 18:29:37 GMT
That would be my biggest want too. But for the sake of having another answer: I feel like that there a lot of the Homestuck Universe's "rules" that were just handwaved in and out as the plot required. E.g. The Condesce's supposed inheritable immortality that just disappeared in Collide without explanation, and how Die's doll worked differently at different times because the Felt needed to be back in the story(except they really weren't) and how Calliope and Jade seemingly just waltzed out of the Dream bubbles without explanation or precedent. Having some more consistency with respect to these things, or at the very least, some sort of explanation for these sudden exceptions would've made the ending a bit better for me. I keep seeing people talk about the Condesce's immortality, but was it ever stated that she had unconditional immortality, and not just a really long life span? Not unconditional immortality, but in describing the handmaid's cure we get this:And a couple pages later we get this: So she had "conditional mortality," whatever that means. |
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Post by Gab on May 9, 2016 18:33:01 GMT
The white frog that was the final component of their universe frog.
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Post by birdwords on May 9, 2016 18:33:42 GMT
I keep seeing people talk about the Condesce's immortality, but was it ever stated that she had unconditional immortality, and not just a really long life span? Not unconditional immortality, but in describing the handmaid's cure we get this:And a couple pages later we get this: So she had "conditional mortality," whatever that means. I forgot that she was given the Handmaid's curse. At the very least, it would mean that she can't die unless killed, like God Tiers. Whether she can only die when Lord English says so, or if she's just as vulnerable to a sword through the chest as anyone else, I don't know. Doc Scratch did feel the need to punish The Handmaid when she attempted suicide, which could either just be him being sadistic or genuinely ensuring that she did not die before her purpose was served. |
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imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
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Post by imglasses on May 9, 2016 20:53:48 GMT
Apart from the Masterpiece, I'd like some sort of explanation for the retcon juju. It was just kind of thrown into the story extremely late, as a magic answer to everyone's problems. Why would the door to their new universe have the ability to suck 4 people into it, why does it give people retcon powers if they stick their arm into it, how did Caliborn's Yaldabaoth get ahold of a miniature version of it, and why is it Lord English's weakness?
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Post by pointycatears on May 9, 2016 21:08:27 GMT
I was going to say that I'd like to see the Alpha kid's problems with each other (Especially Jake and Jane) resolved onscreen with some more conversations, but I don't think that would count. I'd still like to see it, though. But that doesn't count for this thread...
What happened to the sprites? Are Jasprose and Arquius and Nanna still around? Shouldn't there still be Jaspersprite from the post-retcon timeline? And did Davepeta surive fighting Lord English, and if so, did they end up like however Vriska and all of the ghosts ended up?
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Post by Neptz on May 9, 2016 21:29:13 GMT
OH yeah.
What the fuck happened to Vriska and the ghosts? Did they just... die?
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on May 9, 2016 22:52:38 GMT
Origin of the Dads.
I actually hate the bit with John and Mr. Crocker. He's not Mr. Egbert, I'm sorry.
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soeroah
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
Posts: 174
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Post by soeroah on May 10, 2016 0:48:34 GMT
The Masterpiece would be one thing, yeah. I think it might break the rules, but I'd want to get some clear information on how exactly retcon mechanics work in the first place. I love the idea, it just feels like I'm missing a puzzle piece or two. Apart from that and the Masterpiece I can't actually think of too many plot points I consider "need" to be resolved, outside of Lord English's actual defeat/what the Treasure did. It looks like retcon abilities are teleportation plus a "super time travel" that allows you to influence way much than a time travel clone. It's harder ot master than actual time travel, can't be done with a whim and if you play your cards right you can change the alpha, which is something that time travel can't do as you'd just splinter the timeline. It also makes you impervious to the effects of retconning the alpha timeline and it seems you can also travel to doomed timelines but I'm not sure? I know all that, but I'm wondering about the actual mechanics behind it. Like, what's the distinction between altering an Alpha timeline or fulfilling a retcon-supported time loop? Are there extra Johns out there because the one we followed did a couple Retcons that resulted in changing his post-power-up activities? What happens/happened to those Johns? Is the Retconning actually, literally just becoming removed from the story rather than teleportation or time travel, meaning despite the illusion of free will John simply becomes a sentient plot device doomed to act in certain ways to develop the narrative along the lines that have been set by those writing the story? Did it free John from Homestuck, or did it snare him more than any other character? There's room to interpret the whole Masterpiece thing as Caliborn managing to turn John's retcon powers into a massive timeloop, which would mean John's retconning could be how Caliborn became a master of the Alpha Timeline. Rather than being a surprise attack against Caliborn, it could have just been Yet Another Timeloop, further cementing Caliborn's place in history. I'd like a bit more clarification on those sorts of topics  |
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Acamaeda
Nipper Cadet
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Post by Acamaeda on May 10, 2016 15:09:45 GMT
Free will is never an illusion in Homestuck. Although John is "he who would extinguish candles whilst fanning a fire", which can be interpreted as his retcons solving more immediate problems but also causing the timeline with Lord English's existence to happen (although that timeline has to happen for anything to exist in the first place, probably, so it's not 100% bad). As for the plot points, my only issue with things is that "The end" is supposedly the end of the story, besides the epilogue.
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Post by Neptz on May 10, 2016 15:41:39 GMT
Whaaat? Acamaeda posted without plugging his thing? o: (jk) It looks like retcon abilities are teleportation plus a "super time travel" that allows you to influence way much than a time travel clone. It's harder ot master than actual time travel, can't be done with a whim and if you play your cards right you can change the alpha, which is something that time travel can't do as you'd just splinter the timeline. It also makes you impervious to the effects of retconning the alpha timeline and it seems you can also travel to doomed timelines but I'm not sure? I know all that, but I'm wondering about the actual mechanics behind it. Like, what's the distinction between altering an Alpha timeline or fulfilling a retcon-supported time loop? Are there extra Johns out there because the one we followed did a couple Retcons that resulted in changing his post-power-up activities? What happens/happened to those Johns? Is the Retconning actually, literally just becoming removed from the story rather than teleportation or time travel, meaning despite the illusion of free will John simply becomes a sentient plot device doomed to act in certain ways to develop the narrative along the lines that have been set by those writing the story? Did it free John from Homestuck, or did it snare him more than any other character? There's room to interpret the whole Masterpiece thing as Caliborn managing to turn John's retcon powers into a massive timeloop, which would mean John's retconning could be how Caliborn became a master of the Alpha Timeline. Rather than being a surprise attack against Caliborn, it could have just been Yet Another Timeloop, further cementing Caliborn's place in history. I'd like a bit more clarification on those sorts of topics Those things are ridiculously specific and I don't think they'll get answered in the way you'd like if they did. |
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soeroah
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
Posts: 174
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Post by soeroah on May 11, 2016 2:18:55 GMT
Whaaat? Acamaeda posted without plugging his thing? o: (jk) I know all that, but I'm wondering about the actual mechanics behind it. Like, what's the distinction between altering an Alpha timeline or fulfilling a retcon-supported time loop? Are there extra Johns out there because the one we followed did a couple Retcons that resulted in changing his post-power-up activities? What happens/happened to those Johns? Is the Retconning actually, literally just becoming removed from the story rather than teleportation or time travel, meaning despite the illusion of free will John simply becomes a sentient plot device doomed to act in certain ways to develop the narrative along the lines that have been set by those writing the story? Did it free John from Homestuck, or did it snare him more than any other character? There's room to interpret the whole Masterpiece thing as Caliborn managing to turn John's retcon powers into a massive timeloop, which would mean John's retconning could be how Caliborn became a master of the Alpha Timeline. Rather than being a surprise attack against Caliborn, it could have just been Yet Another Timeloop, further cementing Caliborn's place in history. I'd like a bit more clarification on those sorts of topics Those things are ridiculously specific and I don't think they'll get answered in the way you'd like if they did. I'd like just about any answer that resolved inconsistencies, even if it were the aforementioned "it's a meta power so plot holes don't matter, because the power's purpose is to drive the narrative to its conclusion". I don't think they are that specific. No more specific than how doomed timelines vs the Alpha timeline work. Much of that was examples as to questions stemming from a lack of clarity, not specific questions I want answered. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on May 11, 2016 3:15:38 GMT
Whaaat? Acamaeda posted without plugging his thing? o: (jk) Those things are ridiculously specific and I don't think they'll get answered in the way you'd like if they did. I'd like just about any answer that resolved inconsistencies, even if it were the aforementioned "it's a meta power so plot holes don't matter, because the power's purpose is to drive the narrative to its conclusion". I don't think they are that specific. No more specific than how doomed timelines vs the Alpha timeline work. Much of that was examples as to questions stemming from a lack of clarity, not specific questions I want answered. I thought it was pretty clear by now how the alpha and doomed time lines worked. Well, at least to the point where we know what causes them. |
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Post by obsidalicious on May 11, 2016 4:00:25 GMT
I thought it was pretty clear by now how the alpha and doomed time lines worked. Well, at least to the point where we know what causes them. Last I heard, it was still a matter of debate as to whether or not the 'Briska' timeline actually happened or not. Besides that, there are some hypothetical matters with no clear answer, such as whether a doomed timeline can have doomed offshoots of their own, or what the exact rules are for doomed offshoots that involve multiple, otherwise independent time-frames, such as a trans-session doomed timeline. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on May 11, 2016 5:18:18 GMT
I thought it was pretty clear by now how the alpha and doomed time lines worked. Well, at least to the point where we know what causes them. Last I heard, it was still a matter of debate as to whether or not the 'Briska' timeline actually happened or not. That was kind of a specific case though. Because we were seeing it through Terezi vision, it was hard to know if it was just a possibility she saw or something that actually happens. But we do know that if Vriska had gone off to fight Jack it would've doomed the time line. |
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