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Post by TimeyWimeyHero on May 2, 2016 0:55:35 GMT
I don't think the forum games section gets spammed, it just gets more content because it's simple to make a post there. Exactly. People just take the easy way out, and if a bunch of people do this then there's an unbalanced bridge of quality vs quantity. Taking away that easiness to just make a bunch of "random" posts that don't really mean anything will entice more people into the discussion threads, which is healthier for the forum overall. I do not hate forum games in any way. I'm just saying that when compared to actual discussion (the whole point of forums in the first place) forum games can be considered a bit... spammy.
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Post by jacquerel on May 2, 2016 1:17:56 GMT
People don't contribute to discussions because it increases their post count, but because they are interesting. The situation you are constructing where someone posts in forum games over a discussion thread because they want to increase their meaningless post count doesn't exist (nothing is stopping them from doing both!).
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Post by Neptz on May 2, 2016 1:19:01 GMT
What Jacquerel said. I only participate in threads that are interesting to me, but I also am encouraged to keep doing because of the post titles and count. I mean, it just feels good. but it isn't the only reason I post.
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researcherwisemon
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Post by researcherwisemon on May 2, 2016 6:05:50 GMT
Personally, I rarely post in threads, even the forum games. I'm just usually that shy of a person, but I'm trying to get over that. Seeing the post count and the titles here has been giving me a sense of "yes, you're actually making progress as a person," rather than anything of "Yay! you're getting status and becomeing someone famouz" (typos intentional there for ridiculousness factor). So while I don't post to see the titles climb ranks, seeing them climb ranks has been helping encourage me too keep it up so I don't relapse and retreat into the shadows again.
I definitely feel like I've been more active here than I was over on MSPA, so if the titles have really had any kind of influence on that, then it's been a positive one.
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Post by TimeyWimeyHero on May 2, 2016 12:40:04 GMT
I'm talking about people who actually care about their post count, even though it's absolutely meaningless. I have seen some pretty bad shit in other forums I've participated in. Let's face it, we may as well take measures to prevent it now, even as it's still growing. People don't contribute to discussions because it increases their post count, but because they are interesting. The situation you are constructing where someone posts in forum games over a discussion thread because they want to increase their meaningless post count doesn't exist (nothing is stopping them from doing both!). Sure, you may not do this. I'm saying that there will inevitably be people who will.
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Post by jacquerel on May 2, 2016 14:56:31 GMT
What I'm saying is that it literally doesn't matter if people care about their post count and boost it by posting in forum games, it means nothing at all. If they're some kind of mythical creature that only goes to message boards to increase a tiny number by their name, and this is more important to them than any conversation, then they wouldn't be a useful part of discussion anyway. Let them have their fun and it won't affect you in the slightest.
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The Rules
May 2, 2016 15:04:57 GMT
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Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on May 2, 2016 15:04:57 GMT
Issues been solved anyway. Go home, guys.
Go make some suggestions in forum adventures or something.
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Post by Wesley Foxx on May 2, 2016 19:09:43 GMT
What I'm saying is that it literally doesn't matter if people care about their post count and boost it by posting in forum games, it means nothing at all. If they're some kind of mythical creature that only goes to message boards to increase a tiny number by their name, and this is more important to them than any conversation, then they wouldn't be a useful part of discussion anyway. Let them have their fun and it won't affect you in the slightest. If it matters, it should be disabled. If it doesn't matter then there's no reason not to disable it. Ergo, it was disabled.
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Post by Neptz on May 2, 2016 19:15:39 GMT
I don't understand that reasoning. There's no reason not to disable post counts everywhere because it doesn't matter. Yet it is enabled?? There is no reason not to disable avatars and signatures because they don't matter. Yet they are enabled??
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Post by Wesley Foxx on May 2, 2016 21:45:12 GMT
If everyone agreed they were pointless then yes, why not. But some people do care about having meaningful post counts, avatars and signatures, therefore, those are things we support by doing stuff like disabling spammy postcount accumulation. The only proposed defense of not disabling spammy postcounts is if postcounts don't matter, and if they don't matter, then it doesn't matter if they're disabled. If you want the spammy postcounts enabled for reasons of wanting to have a spammy postcount, then just say so.
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Post by jacquerel on May 2, 2016 22:41:33 GMT
I would rather just have it disabled site-wide than have it disabled for one subforum. If the intention is to prevent aberrant spamming behaviour then this is the most sensible avenue of action to take, else you just have an inaccurate statistic attached to everyone's user data.
To be honest I don't really care one way or the other, as I said earlier, just this seems weirdly inconsistent. If someone's that obsessed with post count, it's easy to make a topic allowing them to boost it in virtually any subforum. Make a low-effort forum adventure, regularly post in your own art or prose topic, or start a thread about Vriska. All of these can easily produce "low content" posts just as quickly. The number just says "posts", not "contentful posts". I feel it should either be there, and be accurate, or (if you really believe it encourages harmful behaviour) just go away.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on May 3, 2016 0:49:59 GMT
I think it makes sense to disable post count for forum games but nowhere else. That sort of system has worked well in other forums I've been on.
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Post by Arashi500 on May 3, 2016 10:13:42 GMT
Would it not possibly just make more sense to add a "Liked Posts" counter as well? Then people can have an actually significant number that more accurately reflects high-content and good posts and is determined by the rest of the community rather than by the poster? Having both I would think would allow those who care about tracking sheer post-count as a measure of self-success/involvement to then be able to keep looking at it like a lil achievment whilst encouraged to make the bests posts possible in order to raise a statistic anyone else would possibly bother with.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 14:21:03 GMT
You know, it seems to me that removing the post-count on the forum games sub-forum would only encourage the kind of people who care to post-spam a lot on the normal threads.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 14:23:57 GMT
Off the topic of post-count, how on-topic do posts need to be? Also, how okay is doing what I am doing right now (using several posts at around the same time to break up topics)? Should there usually be a time delay? Should I wait for a reply? Should I just use edits? What about if I just think of something to add later (especially if there have been no new posts since)?
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 14:26:41 GMT
I don't see why disabling postcount is necessary, it means just as little anywhere else on the forum. It's a completely unimportant statistic >_> I'd also for posterity like to point out that there weren't actually any issues going on in the forum games subforum when it was removed, it even had its own dedicated moderators, the staff just wanted to downsize the forum and picked that subforum to get the chop "because it could probably survive on its own offsite" (it didn't). Hey, does anyone know where that subforum was moved to? Because if so, and if there is anything left of it, maybe we should go there to make some posts announcing the existence of these forums (and, more relevantly, their forum games subforum).
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 14:27:28 GMT
Does Zalgo text actually break these forums, since we're now on different forum software? Obviously people shouldn't go absurd with it even if it doesn't break shit, but I can imagine that some fan adventures may find a need for a little here and there. I don't actually know how well these forums are capable of handling Zalgo text, but I don't think it would hurt to be careful with it. I guess limited use of it is fine as long as people don't go crazy with it. I've edited the rule about it a bit. Maybe someone should test to see if Zalgo text breaks the forums? I could do it if you give me the go ahead.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 11, 2016 14:33:48 GMT
It may not have been a written rule, but on the old forums it was considered wrong to double post. If you had multiple things to say you should put it all in one post and if you came up with something additional to say soon after posting, you should edit your post rather than make a new one. I'd assume we're keeping the same policy here. Edit: I don't see why disabling postcount is necessary, it means just as little anywhere else on the forum. It's a completely unimportant statistic >_> I'd also for posterity like to point out that there weren't actually any issues going on in the forum games subforum when it was removed, it even had its own dedicated moderators, the staff just wanted to downsize the forum and picked that subforum to get the chop "because it could probably survive on its own offsite" (it didn't). Hey, does anyone know where that subforum was moved to? Because if so, and if there is anything left of it, maybe we should go there to make some posts announcing the existence of these forums (and, more relevantly, their forum games subforum). That would be here.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 14:42:03 GMT
It may not have been a written rule, but on the old forums it was considered wrong to double post. If you had multiple things to say you should put it all in one post and if you came up with something additional to say soon after posting, you should edit your post rather than make a new one. I'd assume we're keeping the same policy here. Thank you. I try to do that stuff anyway (I only double-posted here for the benefit of the question), but I figured asking for clarification would be a good idea. Edit: Hey, does anyone know where that subforum was moved to? Because if so, and if there is anything left of it, maybe we should go there to make some posts announcing the existence of these forums (and, more relevantly, their forum games subforum). That would be here. Thank you again. I really don't know how I should go about executing my "plan" (if you can call it that, it was really more of a suggestion), but maybe someone else knows what to do.
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Post by Blaperile on May 11, 2016 17:43:15 GMT
Off the topic of post-count, how on-topic do posts need to be? Also, how okay is doing what I am doing right now (using several posts at around the same time to break up topics)? Should there usually be a time delay? Should I wait for a reply? Should I just use edits? What about if I just think of something to add later (especially if there have been no new posts since)? Posts should be more than one sentence preferably (exception being Forum Games and Forum Adventures), and should be as on-topic as possible. Anything that does not fit with the current topic should be taken to PM's or to a topic that is more appropriate for the kind of discussion you're looking for. It's best not to double post unless it's been at least 24 hours since your last post. If you want to add something before that, make an edit. Maybe someone should test to see if Zalgo text breaks the forums? I could do it if you give me the go ahead. I'd rather not tempt fate. I have no idea what the consequences of it could be, so I think it's better to not even try it.
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Post by gimeurcookie on May 11, 2016 19:15:03 GMT
Zalgo text does not break a forum believe it or not! (I feel the rule was VERY badly worded on the old forums.) What Zalgo text does is it breaks out the norms of the standard text area. It doesn't "break" a forum in the way you might think, it "breaks" it by if done right it can over lap itself outside of the text area and into someone elses post. Note that the other person's post is not being changed, it's just that annoying Zalgo is over lapping it.
The reason the rule was likely in place on the old forums is that when trying to do backend stuff, if the page they're trying to edit has Zalgo in it it makes it SUPER hard to see what you're doing until you get rid of it. Zalgo is harmless but possibly VERY annoying when used. It cannot in no way shape or form break a forum/board or cause a hole for hacking attempts no more then using normal text and text based symbols can (ex: ☮ ✿ ✈ ♋ ☠ ☯ ♥ ✌ ✖ ☢ ☣ ☤ ) because that's what Zalgo is, a text based symbol.
So yeah, while it has no chance of breaking a forum a really annoying person using Zalgo could make things hard to read if they spammed it or made their topic title with it. (Which might be impossible if only unicode is enabled for topic titles which it normally is.)
Edit: This isn't me saying we should allow Zalgo, I personally think it's over used and is too easy to make annoying, just explaining there should be no fear if someone did. Could you think how easy "hacking" could be if someone could just copy paste Zalgo and break webpages?
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 11, 2016 19:38:46 GMT
In my time on the old forums, I've seen four times when someone unwittingly posted Zalgo text. In one case it worked fine, but in another it reduced the display of the post to the part before the Zalgo text and a few weird symbols, and in the other two it messed up the formatting of all the text that came after the Zalgo text, including other people's posts, usernames, and the links at the bottom of the page. Nothing outright harmful to the forums as a whole, but still, not good.
Whether anything like that will happen on these forums, I don't know, but it's fair enough to keep it banned just in case.
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Post by Arashi500 on May 11, 2016 20:07:12 GMT
Off the topic of post-count, how on-topic do posts need to be? Also, how okay is doing what I am doing right now (using several posts at around the same time to break up topics)? Should there usually be a time delay? Should I wait for a reply? Should I just use edits? What about if I just think of something to add later (especially if there have been no new posts since)? Double-posting is more of a nuisance than a problem in my experience, but you should probably opt for edits if it's been less than 24 hours if yours was the last post in a thread. You can simply add an "EDIT:" preface to whatever text you add to the original post if you want people to know where the edits begin.
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Post by Sharkalien on May 11, 2016 21:28:36 GMT
o͙h̪̗͔̣̰͜ ̖̺̣͘s̵̗̝h̬̞̳̲̠̻i҉̭̲̙͍͔͕̩t͓̪ ̥̖̠͖̙̮d̴̥͕̤͍͔̣͈i̸͚d̖̺̪̯ ͇̘͞s̰̠̳̥͙̗o͎̫m̘͓͖e̷͙̰b̯o͚͕̟͕̝͕̹d͎̱y͓̱͔̠̘͡ ̶s̟̗̜̫̫̤à̮̲̩̮̪y͓̪ ͟Ẓ͕̻̩̭͝AL̠͙̯͉̩͖̠͢G̨̬̠̪̱Ơ Okay, so I did a little testing and Zalgo seems to work fine on FreeForums, kinda. Without a spoiler, the effect gets cut off And I guess some obscure Unicode characters don't work here. What a shame
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on May 11, 2016 22:10:50 GMT
Off the topic of post-count, how on-topic do posts need to be? Also, how okay is doing what I am doing right now (using several posts at around the same time to break up topics)? Should there usually be a time delay? Should I wait for a reply? Should I just use edits? What about if I just think of something to add later (especially if there have been no new posts since)? Posts should be more than one sentence preferably (exception being Forum Games and Forum Adventures), and should be as on-topic as possible. Anything that does not fit with the current topic should be taken to PM's or to a topic that is more appropriate for the kind of discussion you're looking for. Thanks, my question was more "How off-topic is 'off-topic'?," but I guess I will just wing-it and spoiler things I think might be too off-topic, like I have been. It's best not to double post unless it's been at least 24 hours since your last post. If you want to add something before that, make an edit. Thanks. Off the topic of post-count, how on-topic do posts need to be? Also, how okay is doing what I am doing right now (using several posts at around the same time to break up topics)? Should there usually be a time delay? Should I wait for a reply? Should I just use edits? What about if I just think of something to add later (especially if there have been no new posts since)? Double-posting is more of a nuisance than a problem in my experience, but you should probably opt for edits if it's been less than 24 hours if yours was the last post in a thread. You can simply add an "EDIT:" preface to whatever text you add to the original post if you want people to know where the edits begin. Thank you for the advice. o͙h̪̗͔̣̰͜ ̖̺̣͘s̵̗̝h̬̞̳̲̠̻i҉̭̲̙͍͔͕̩t͓̪ ̥̖̠͖̙̮d̴̥͕̤͍͔̣͈i̸͚d̖̺̪̯ ͇̘͞s̰̠̳̥͙̗o͎̫m̘͓͖e̷͙̰b̯o͚͕̟͕̝͕̹d͎̱y͓̱͔̠̘͡ ̶s̟̗̜̫̫̤à̮̲̩̮̪y͓̪ ͟Ẓ͕̻̩̭͝AL̠͙̯͉̩͖̠͢G̨̬̠̪̱Ơ Okay, so I did a little testing and Zalgo seems to work fine on FreeForums, kinda. Without a spoiler, the effect gets cut off And I guess some obscure Unicode characters don't work here. What a shame Well, I guess that takes care of that. Banning Zalgo in most cases is still probably a good idea, since Zalgo sucks, but maybe Blaperile should add a caveat that, if you really want to use it, you can put it in a spoiler, or something.
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