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Post by Gab on May 16, 2017 14:47:26 GMT
Hey, here's an unpopular opinion:
All claims of Hussie giving up are a hot font of bullshit. All arcs were completed as intended to satisfaction. The only compromise was in taking longer than expected to finish the story.
That's what I think anyway.
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Post by legendary on May 16, 2017 18:52:10 GMT
This is unpopular opinions, not blatantly wrong opinions.
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Post by princessfeffie on May 16, 2017 19:02:31 GMT
i definitely don't see any of the main characters' arcs as having been 'given up' on; unfortunately a lil rushed maybe, but they're still resolved v well
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Post by heirloomairloom on May 16, 2017 20:49:24 GMT
Hey, here's an unpopular opinion: All claims of Hussie giving up are a hot font of bullshit. All arcs were completed as intended to satisfaction. The only compromise was in taking longer than expected to finish the story. That's what I think anyway. Y'know, I wanted to argue this, but honestly you're almost right. The Striders, Lalondes, John, Caliborn, and most of the secondary characters got full, satisfying character arcs. Jade, Terezi, and Vriska had finished characters arcs that just kept dragging on afterwords. We technically skipped the end of Jake's arc but it was obvious what it was going to be. Kanaya and Jane straight up had no arcs to be left incomplete. The only people who had their arcs that were obviously set up but never finished were Karkat and Calliope. |
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Post by legendary on May 16, 2017 23:35:32 GMT
Rose very blatantly had an arc dropped: playing the rain. All of the foreshadowing of Acts 4 and 5 was about how she'd eventually realize that not playing the rain was dumb and that she needed to meet her Denizen. She didn't do this. Jane was clearly going to go meet Hemera after talking to the Nannas but never did that either (nor did she have any resolution about the Condesce situation, nor did any kids except John and Jade heal their Lands (and John's was fucked up because Collide shows it in its cloudy state again so extra demerits for that)). Jade never got to reunite with John onscreen, nor did she ever get a chance to interact with her penpal Jake. As pointed out, Jake got a shitty and incomplete arc and this actually drags Dirk's down too because of the romance stuff going on. Terezi never got a chance to legitimately stand up to Vriska in a healthy manner, made especially blatant by the retcon's fucked up romance between them - and Vriska never learned any useful for all of her hubris. Tavros is legitimately a contender for "most complete character arc" because he actually managed to one-up Vriska and be a useful person all in one go, but he's got Tavrosprite hanging.
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Post by mementovivere on May 17, 2017 1:28:57 GMT
To be fair, bA never claimed the ending was perfect and flawless, just that he doesn't think Hussie "gave up" on Homestuck. It's not a "blatantly wrong opinion" to suggest that a creator might still care about a story he spent 7 years working on, even if people didn't like its ending, so watch the rudeness.
I'm inclined to agree, considering the amount of effort that went into planning and producing the ending, not to mention the evidence that the ending was written for a few years before it was posted. I've got my qualms with parts of the ending too, but imo that's more due to insufficient planning and the sheer difficulty of wrangling such a massive sprawling story into submission while devoting equal time to every single loose thread. Endings are difficult to write, moreso if you've made up most of the story along the way as opposed to planning it all from the start, moreso if it's an especially convoluted and detailed story.
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Post by sigh on May 17, 2017 4:58:42 GMT
I get the feeling that Hussie is a lot like the GM I had for a game of D&D I was in back in the day. When we were on a regular schedule and played a lot we were doing great and the sessions were usually pretty comprehensible.
The minute something janked up that schedule he'd lose the track real quick and would start making weird decisions with the plot that seemed to come out of left field, dropping earlier plot points and seemingly never picking them back up again.
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thedude3445
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Post by thedude3445 on May 17, 2017 8:05:26 GMT
This is unpopular opinions, not blatantly wrong opinions. I lol'd. I do think he gave up and lost interest, maybe not because of the unresolved plot holes necessarily (though the caliborn vine thing became completely useless), but because of the way that the story eventually just began to coast. A lot of it for a while seems like it was the "disorganized DM" syndrome setting in after so many long pauses, but near the end it felt like he just wanted to quit it. There was the big buildup of planning for the final battle and everything via all the characters talking (and talking and talking), and then... the comic just... did exactly everything from that plan, no deviations. I think Hussie cared so little by the end that he just hired off other WP artists (and possibly writers) to do the rest for him. Hiveswap was definitely his main priority by then. |
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Post by princessfeffie on May 18, 2017 0:43:52 GMT
heirloomairloom i thought callie's stuff was all pretty well written, hows her arc incomplete to u? 
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Post by legendary on May 18, 2017 1:37:35 GMT
She literally has no arc. At the start of the story she's a doofus who likes drawing pretty pictures. At the end of the story she's a doofus who likes drawing pretty pictures. She has no revelations about herself or the world. She seems less changed by her death than Professor Binns of Harry Potter, and unlike Jesus or, well, Harry Potter, her return to life accomplishes no great victory. Every contribution she makes to the story could be trivially rewritten so that someone else does it instead.
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Post by heirloomairloom on May 18, 2017 22:12:15 GMT
heirloomairloom i thought callie's stuff was all pretty well written, hows her arc incomplete to u? At the start of the comic, Calliope is trapped alone, feeling no self confidence and having no connections beyond a few people who she treats like characters out of a story ("These are just a few of the many drawings you have done over the years celebrating your absolute all-time favorite characters. Er... you mean friends.") Her other major issue is that Caliborn represents negative traits in herself that she does not want to admit to, just as Calliope represents parts of Caliborn's personality he is repressing. (Caliborn is obviously interested in shipping and attracted to men, as seen from the "porn" drawing and the yaoi, but adamantly denies it. Similarly, you can see the same obsession with games and cruelty Caliborn possesses in the scene where Calliope mocks her mentally disabled brother for not being able to beat her at chess, then throws a tantrum when he does manage to outsmart her at it by thinking outside the box.) As her arc progresses, she gets even worse. She idolizes an alternate timeline version of herself for being strong enough to predominate over Caliborn, even though we as the viewer can see that the themes of Homestuck support the version of her who stayed kind and devoted to self improvement ("it was how i was going to win! and really, if he grew closer to me in that way, by learning kindness and compassion, we both woUld have won. my predomination woUld not have meant his absolUte death, but oUr trUe Union.") as both stronger and better adjusted than the version who sat in a cave for a billion years out of an obsessive need to kill her brother again. Calliope never addresses or even acknowledges any of these problems, except for the part of her self esteem issues centering around her appearance, and then I think only because Hussie had already painted himself into a corner by having her cosplay as a troll in the dream bubbles and so had to eventually get her back into her true appearance by having her stop. Though since the epilogue will certainly feature Lord English getting defeated for real, there's still hope for him to pull out a satisfying conclusion for Calliope by having her finally deal with him. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on May 19, 2017 7:17:40 GMT
To be fair, bA never claimed the ending was perfect and flawless, just that he doesn't think Hussie "gave up" on Homestuck. It's not a "blatantly wrong opinion" to suggest that a creator might still care about a story he spent 7 years working on, even if people didn't like its ending, so watch the rudeness. bA said all arcs were completed as intended to satisfaction which is, as this thread shows, demonstrably false. Rose's was aborted, a lot of Jane's stuff never went anywhere, Jake never had a finished arc, Terezi hasn't gotten any closure regarding Vriska and the choices her other selves made, Karkat never got any closure relating to his spot on the team or his element, and God only knows what was going on with Gamzee. I'm not saying someone couldn't be satisfied with this outcome and be happy with the ending but....a lot of arcs just didn't come to completion, whether you're satisfied with that or not. |
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Post by Gab on May 19, 2017 14:09:40 GMT
I disagree.
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thedude3445
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Post by thedude3445 on May 19, 2017 16:57:03 GMT
This thread isn't about arguments, oh no! It's about unpopular opinions, which seems to be the case with bA lol.
I try to drop a new unpopular opinion every time I post, but I'm really struggling to think of a new one here.... Uh, my unpopular opinion is that Rose/Kanaya sucks and the timeline reboot ending with Kanaya/Vriska would have made for a more interesting development, but sadly it didn't happen because of fan-love.
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Post by TrickleJest on May 19, 2017 19:59:29 GMT
This is unpopular opinions, not blatantly wrong opinions. Please stop attacking other people's posts/opinions, you aren't helping. I for one also think Hussie didn't give up. The fandom was spoiled and had high expectations. Collide was great, Act 7 was good, the credits were alright, but nothing was bad. It was perhaps weak in comparison to the likes of Cascade and Game Over, but you should stop being spoiled and grow up. Hussie is a person. Homestuck is made by people. People aren't perfect. He tried. He tried to make a good ending, and I think that's what counts in the end. The ending wasn't even bad to begin with. Unpopular Opinion Tax: The Trolls didn't need to have pre-scratches/"dancestors", it just seemed unnecessary and I wasn't a fan of Openbound since long text isn't really my thing. It was also really boring moving around for no reason and using walkthroughs because I'm never going through all of that text, coupled up with the music getting annoying after thirty minutes. |
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Post by legendary on May 19, 2017 21:03:16 GMT
you should stop being spoiled and grow up |
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Post by mistertorchwick on May 19, 2017 23:46:40 GMT
Unpopular Opinion Tax: The Trolls didn't need to have pre-scratches/"dancestors", it just seemed unnecessary and I wasn't a fan of Openbound since long text isn't really my thing. It was also really boring moving around for no reason and using walkthroughs because I'm never going through all of that text, coupled up with the music getting annoying after thirty minutes. Holy crap, I'm not the only one who doesn't care for the dans? Heck, dude. Yeah, I agree the story didn't need them and the flashes bugged me to no end. It makes a lot of fandom interaction very difficult for me considering they're just as popular as the lead trolls and I literally skipped them over entirely. As for my own unpopular opinion, here it is: Tricksters aren't fun. I can live without seeing another piece of freaky fan art or obnoxious rainbow text ever. Reading that storyline was surreal. It disturbed me deeply. |
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Post by obsidalicious on May 19, 2017 23:59:49 GMT
As for my own unpopular opinion, here it is: Tricksters aren't fun. I can live without seeing another piece of freaky fan art or obnoxious rainbow text ever. Reading that storyline was surreal. It disturbed me deeply. I don't think that is an unpopular opinion. The tricksters aren't really meant to be fun, they're supposed to be terrifying. When people say that they like Trickster Mode, what I'm pretty sure they mean is that they like the story development/turn that it represents, rather than "yay, I wanna be a trickster too". |
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Post by mistertorchwick on May 20, 2017 0:38:31 GMT
As for my own unpopular opinion, here it is: Tricksters aren't fun. I can live without seeing another piece of freaky fan art or obnoxious rainbow text ever. Reading that storyline was surreal. It disturbed me deeply. I don't think that is an unpopular opinion. The tricksters aren't really meant to be fun, they're supposed to be terrifying. When people say that they like Trickster Mode, what I'm pretty sure they mean is that they like the story development/turn that it represents, rather than "yay, I wanna be a trickster too". Son of a gun. I either have to either get off Reddit or pay better attention to people because that's my view on them, too! |
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Post by Gab on May 20, 2017 1:25:20 GMT
Well, it isn't necessarily "unpopular" but it can go both ways. Personally, I see the humor in the trickster arc, because it is obviously very silly, and even the obviously dark or disturbing stuff I also find kind of funny. I don't think that's necessarily an unpopular opinion, either, because-- wait wait, that'd be spoilers. Dangit, will you catch up already?
So don't feel too bad if you don't always have a clear picture of fan opinion, because that can be varied sometimes.
Like for instance, in my opinion, not only is the dancestor stuff completely vital to the story, but I find those walkarounds immensely fun, the crowning achievement of such excursions, which was already some of the most fun and memorable points of the story.
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Post by sigh on May 21, 2017 7:13:17 GMT
Here's what's probably an unpopular opinion, especially considering the fandom I'm talking about:
There are too many gay characters in Homestuck, and Hussie's adamant refusal to not have his comic literally be the gayest that's ever been was a primary contributor to the lowered quality of later parts of the story.
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Post by princessfeffie on May 21, 2017 13:53:40 GMT
sigh thats a bit of a confusing one to me! the relationships toward the end of homestuck, romantic or platonic or gay or straight, have a lot of relevance of the arcs of the characters in question and imo are for the most part done really well - what in specific would you change? it's helpful to remember homestuck's a story all about characters ascending and rising above entrapments, so themes like coming to terms with being lgbt fit just right into that like stuff like karkat's mutation does, meaning there's a reason it's a significant part of hs!
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axolotlSushi
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Post by axolotlSushi on May 21, 2017 14:25:01 GMT
I'm not sure if I already posted this or not, but I'm just going to put it out here anyway...
The Cherubs are, in my opinion, some of my favourite characters. I can agree that to this point the Calliope arc hasn't been satisfying, but I still find her character interesting nonetheless. And, as for Caliborn... Yes, he may be obnoxious and a huge jerk, but he's entertaining as fuck.
While we're at it, the Tricksters fall under the category of obnoxious yet entertaining for me.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 22, 2017 17:02:46 GMT
Unpopular Opinion Tax: The Trolls didn't need to have pre-scratches/"dancestors", it just seemed unnecessary and I wasn't a fan of Openbound since long text isn't really my thing. It was also really boring moving around for no reason and using walkthroughs because I'm never going through all of that text, coupled up with the music getting annoying after thirty minutes. Holy crap, I'm not the only one who doesn't care for the dans? Heck, dude. Yeah, I agree the story didn't need them and the flashes bugged me to no end. It makes a lot of fandom interaction very difficult for me considering they're just as popular as the lead trolls and I literally skipped them over entirely. That's odd, because most people I've seen agree with you; I thought it was unpopular to like the dancesters, aside from those with the "more characters for fanart and roleplay" mentality. Personally, I'm in the middle. I find them interesting, but also feel they were shoehorned in and all but two contributed nothing to the comic. As for tricksters, I personally like them, but not because of horror or humor. I just find them interesting in a way that it's hard to put into words. I guess I could say I find them beautifully surreal. Also, they act as an interesting meta-joke, being based on the "trickster mode" of the first walkaround flash. I do feel they were under-utilized, though; as it is comes of as a one-off joke, and it doesn't really work as that, especially with such a long sequence. sigh thats a bit of a confusing one to me! the relationships toward the end of homestuck, romantic or platonic or gay or straight, have a lot of relevance of the arcs of the characters in question and imo are for the most part done really well - what in specific would you change? it's helpful to remember homestuck's a story all about characters ascending and rising above entrapments, so themes like coming to terms with being lgbt fit just right into that like stuff like karkat's mutation does, meaning there's a reason it's a significant part of hs! I don't know sigh's opinions in particular, but for me I just feel like a lot of the ending relationships seem forced rather than developing naturally, meanwhile completely throwing out relationships that actually were developed to an extent. For instance, Roxy was shown leaning straight as she expressed attraction to Dirk and Jake, but not Jane, and seen considering dating John. But then suddenly she's dating Calliope (who she was shown to be in more of a BFF relationship before) for no apparent reason? It's not even a "coming to terms with being lgbt" situation like you said as she didn't struggle with the idea in the slightest! Dave's the only one to have anything to come to terms with, but it was still a case of the relationship coming out of nowhere, and that one was shoved down our throats especially hard. And really, I don't like the idea of "gay for the sake of gay" in general, there's nothing wrong with homosexual relationships, but if the only reason it's there is for there to be more homosexual relationships it just doesn't work as well. And to be honest, I don't think this opinion is that unpopular outside of certain groups on tumblr. |
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on May 23, 2017 1:14:39 GMT
sigh thats a bit of a confusing one to me! the relationships toward the end of homestuck, romantic or platonic or gay or straight, have a lot of relevance of the arcs of the characters in question and imo are for the most part done really well - what in specific would you change? it's helpful to remember homestuck's a story all about characters ascending and rising above entrapments, so themes like coming to terms with being lgbt fit just right into that like stuff like karkat's mutation does, meaning there's a reason it's a significant part of hs! I don't know sigh's opinions in particular, but for me I just feel like a lot of the ending relationships seem forced rather than developing naturally, meanwhile completely throwing out relationships that actually were developed to an extent. For instance, Roxy was shown leaning straight as she expressed attraction to Dirk and Jake, but not Jane, and seen considering dating John. But then suddenly she's dating Calliope (who she was shown to be in more of a BFF relationship before) for no apparent reason? It's not even a "coming to terms with being lgbt" situation like you said as she didn't struggle with the idea in the slightest! Dave's the only one to have anything to come to terms with, but it was still a case of the relationship coming out of nowhere, and that one was shoved down our throats especially hard. And really, I don't like the idea of "gay for the sake of gay" in general, there's nothing wrong with homosexual relationships, but if the only reason it's there is for there to be more homosexual relationships it just doesn't work as well. And to be honest, I don't think this opinion is that unpopular outside of certain groups on tumblr. That's completely true. And I know I've said this a million times but the thing with Dave was shoved down our throats so hard that it's difficult to take the matter of coming to terms with sexuality seriously as a theme in Homestuck, since that's the only real instance of that. |
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