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Post by alleywaycreeper on Aug 19, 2017 14:21:15 GMT
And that would mean John and Terezi...? ...are fictional characters. Their experiences and actions can't be used as evidence for what real life humans are capable of. Uh...dude, Trolls and their various relationships don't exist in reality, so whether or not it can be applied to us is moot. In the story, though, the author makes it clear humans can feel black romantic feelings. We weren't arguing over whether humans in reality can feel blackrom, The One Guy just said I'm not able to understand that what he thinks about blackrom is true (that it's only a sexual relationship) because I'm a human, and humans don't get that. (Which should suggest, by the same logic, that TOG shouldn't be able to understand it, being human himself. Unless he's hiding something...) Which is a crappy argument technique, (saying your argument is right just because other people don't understand it) and it's wrong besides. Loveless hookups and hate sex are things that humans do regularly. The only thing that would make blackrom unique from human hate sex would be if it was a relationship and not a booty call.
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grandhope
Greentike
grand panel making
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Post by grandhope on Aug 19, 2017 19:02:35 GMT
Jane Crocker deserved better.
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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 19, 2017 22:19:36 GMT
...are fictional characters. Their experiences and actions can't be used as evidence for what real life humans are capable of. Uh...dude, Trolls and their various relationships don't exist in reality, so whether or not it can be applied to us is moot. In the story, though, the author makes it clear humans can feel black romantic feelings. We weren't arguing over whether humans in reality can feel blackrom, The One Guy just said I'm not able to understand that what he thinks about blackrom is true (that it's only a sexual relationship) because I'm a human, and humans don't get that. (Which should suggest, by the same logic, that TOG shouldn't be able to understand it, being human himself. Unless he's hiding something...) Which is a crappy argument technique, (saying your argument is right just because other people don't understand it) and it's wrong besides. Loveless hookups and hate sex are things that humans do regularly. The only thing that would make blackrom unique from human hate sex would be if it was a relationship and not a booty call. Well, actually the argument was about whether real life humans can feel Black-Rom, since spadesnoir was talking about the idea being older than Homestuck and citing some supposed mainstream examples. The disagreement with T.O.G. you're having looks to me like a terminology issue. When he says 'Love' I'm pretty sure he's just referring to Human-style Positive-Red-Romance, whereas you are taking 'Love' to mean any/all Romance, thus when he says "Loveless Black-rom", he's just saying "Black-rom isn't Red", but you're reading it as a "platonic, emotionless hookup". Plus, with what I said in my last post, I also think you two might be using the two very different interpretations the story has provided to us, which obviously makes the discussion difficult.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Aug 21, 2017 18:03:49 GMT
Because trolls feel attraction that way, it's only absurd to us because we're human. That's kind of my point really. And that would mean John and Terezi...? I mean, whether you like that ship or not, it was basically the comic proving that yes, humans could feel hate love too. I never did like that relationship as it seems like something that shouldn't be possible, but in addition to what obsidalicious said (they're fictional characters and it was only that they only are said to be signs that their relationship might blossom into blackrom), we're also only told they're drifting into blackrom by Karkat, who might not understand how human minds work. Since when did I say they weren't legitimate relationships? In the reasoning you quote here I state that they have the same connection to sexual attraction as redrom does, implying that redrom and blackrom are equivalent in that regard. Drifting off into a tangent here, but Nepeta has lots of ships that aren't actually true, and just because their ancestors may have harbored such feelings for each other doesn't mean they necessarily did themselves. We weren't arguing over whether humans in reality can feel blackrom, The One Guy just said I'm not able to understand that what he thinks about blackrom is true (that it's only a sexual relationship) because I'm a human, and humans don't get that. (Which should suggest, by the same logic, that TOG shouldn't be able to understand it, being human himself. Unless he's hiding something...) Which is a crappy argument technique, (saying your argument is right just because other people don't understand it) and it's wrong besides. Loveless hookups and hate sex are things that humans do regularly. The only thing that would make blackrom unique from human hate sex would be if it was a relationship and not a booty call. No, I'm NOT saying blackrom relationships are just "loveless hookups" (well, technically they are hookups that don't involve love, but they don't match the connotation of being just for sex lacking emotion). What you're missing is that Troll feel a special type of hate that causes the same type of attraction and connection between people as love does. When I said that humans can't understand it, what I meant is that humans cannot feel this same sort of hate-attraction, and thus are unable to fully understand how it feels, but that does not mean we aren't able to understand it in a conceptual sense. (It's kind of like 4D in this regard; we can understand the concept of additional spatial dimensions beyond the third, but we cannot actually visualize a 4 dimensional object.)
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Sept 1, 2017 9:54:00 GMT
And that would mean John and Terezi...? I mean, whether you like that ship or not, it was basically the comic proving that yes, humans could feel hate love too. I never did like that relationship as it seems like something that shouldn't be possible, but in addition to what obsidalicious said (they're fictional characters and it was only that they only are said to be signs that their relationship might blossom into blackrom), we're also only told they're drifting into blackrom by Karkat, who might not understand how human minds work. I'd argue that was the whole purpose of the John Terezi ship: to state to the readers before the comic ended that yes, humans could feel black affection, if only on some level. Whether I had my own conflicting headcannons about blackrom at that point or not, I couldn't argue with what the comic itself told me. It would've been dishonest of me to hold on to outdated ideas as if they were as true even when they conflicted with cannon. Since when did I say they weren't legitimate relationships? In the reasoning you quote here I state that they have the same connection to sexual attraction as redrom does, implying that redrom and blackrom are equivalent in that regard.Sorry, let me try again to get this straight: in what I quoted you also said love was irrelevant to blackrom. So, does that mean what you're saying is that while love can occur between black lovers, it's incidental, as what's unique about blackrom has nothing to do with love, but the kind of sexual attraction that makes two people black lovers as opposed to red? Drifting off into a tangent here, but Nepeta has lots of ships that aren't actually true, and just because their ancestors may have harbored such feelings for each other doesn't mean they necessarily did themselves. No, but there isn't much point in having those little tidbits in the story at all if they're not meant to be hints at something. Terezi's killing Vriska and her subsequent breakdown + Nepeta's wall + Mindfang's comments about how her and Redglare could've been fine rivals paints the Scourge Sister's confrontation as a tragedy wherein their inability to understand their feelings is what allows the cycle of revenge to continue unabated and cause misery and stagnation of growth for everyone involved, which in turn plays into the story's bigger theme about people not learning and growing as long as they keep falling into the same patterns as those that came before them quite beautifully. Plus, I think the only ship on Nepeta's wall that was outright wrong was Dave Tavros, and even that could've been because they both thought Dave was legitimately soliciting the troll. (I don't count her OTP because she herself says it's up there because it's what she wants someday.) Everything else was just shit that'd happened. TL;DR Terezi Vriska contributes to the themes of the story too much for me to accept yet that the teasing about it was completely irrelevant. We weren't arguing over whether humans in reality can feel blackrom, The One Guy just said I'm not able to understand that what he thinks about blackrom is true (that it's only a sexual relationship) because I'm a human, and humans don't get that. (Which should suggest, by the same logic, that TOG shouldn't be able to understand it, being human himself. Unless he's hiding something...) Which is a crappy argument technique, (saying your argument is right just because other people don't understand it) and it's wrong besides. Loveless hookups and hate sex are things that humans do regularly. The only thing that would make blackrom unique from human hate sex would be if it was a relationship and not a booty call. No, I'm NOT saying blackrom relationships are just "loveless hookups" (well, technically they are hookups that don't involve love, but they don't match the connotation of being just for sex lacking emotion). What you're missing is that Troll feel a special type of hate that causes the same type of attraction and connection between people as love does. When I said that humans can't understand it, what I meant is that humans cannot feel this same sort of hate-attraction, and thus are unable to fully understand how it feels, but that does not mean we aren't able to understand it in a conceptual sense. (It's kind of like 4D in this regard; we can understand the concept of additional spatial dimensions beyond the third, but we cannot actually visualize a 4 dimensional object.) Well, if you're talking about in-comic, again John and Terezi disprove that it's something humans can't feel at all. If you're talking out of comic I still say that's wrong, as we have our own tropes related to the concept, (Foe Yay) and just straight up hate sex. Uh...dude, Trolls and their various relationships don't exist in reality, so whether or not it can be applied to us is moot. In the story, though, the author makes it clear humans can feel black romantic feelings. We weren't arguing over whether humans in reality can feel blackrom, The One Guy just said I'm not able to understand that what he thinks about blackrom is true (that it's only a sexual relationship) because I'm a human, and humans don't get that. (Which should suggest, by the same logic, that TOG shouldn't be able to understand it, being human himself. Unless he's hiding something...) Which is a crappy argument technique, (saying your argument is right just because other people don't understand it) and it's wrong besides. Loveless hookups and hate sex are things that humans do regularly. The only thing that would make blackrom unique from human hate sex would be if it was a relationship and not a booty call. Well, actually the argument was about whether real life humans can feel Black-Rom, since spadesnoir was talking about the idea being older than Homestuck and citing some supposed mainstream examples. The disagreement with T.O.G. you're having looks to me like a terminology issue. When he says 'Love' I'm pretty sure he's just referring to Human-style Positive-Red-Romance, whereas you are taking 'Love' to mean any/all Romance, thus when he says "Loveless Black-rom", he's just saying "Black-rom isn't Red", but you're reading it as a "platonic, emotionless hookup". Plus, with what I said in my last post, I also think you two might be using the two very different interpretations the story has provided to us, which obviously makes the discussion difficult. Eh, I think what happened was I was arguing about it in-universe while he was arguing about it....out-universe? I'm not sure what the term would be....and we wound up arguing past each other. Personally, I don't think what black romance would or wouldn't be outside the comic is relevant. It'd amuse me if opinions about the game ended up here after it came out.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Sept 1, 2017 18:58:49 GMT
Responces to alleywaycreeper: I never did like that relationship as it seems like something that shouldn't be possible, but in addition to what obsidalicious said (they're fictional characters and it was only that they only are said to be signs that their relationship might blossom into blackrom), we're also only told they're drifting into blackrom by Karkat, who might not understand how human minds work. I'd argue that was the whole purpose of the John Terezi ship: to state to the readers before the comic ended that yes, humans could feel black affection, if only on some level. Whether I had my own conflicting headcannons about blackrom at that point or not, I couldn't argue with what the comic itself told me. It would've been dishonest of me to hold on to outdated ideas as if they were as true even when they conflicted with cannon. I'll admit, it's hard to argue with the fact that John Terezi was likely intended by Hussie to show that humans can feel blackrom feelings. I just find it hard to accept because it goes against everything that had been previously established about the relationship making it feel like a retcon. Because of this, and because of what I've said already about how this relationship might not actually exist, it is my headcanon that humans can't feel blackrom feelings, despite what is likely Hussie's intent, and I also feel that humans cannot have such feelings in real life. Yes about this part, but... Not about this part. The sexual attraction is something that's part of both redrom and blackrom. The attraction that defines blackrom is an attraction through hate that is equivalent to the attraction through love that defines redrom, and it's a type of attraction that humans can't feel. I hate to break it to you, but Homestuck is packed full of little tidbits that don't actually mean anything. I think you're reading too much into things, while there are some deliberate parallels between the girls and their ancestors, there are also a great many differences. For one thing, Terezi and Vriska started as allies, which Mindgang and Redglare never were. I could go on, but we're getting more and more off track from the overall point. Two things: A. You're telling me that Karkat actually would have actually been in a blackrom relationship with himself if it weren't for Jade's mediation? I know he did mentions having such feelings toward himself, but it came off him just deluding himself, and I doubt Jade actually helped much. Also, where's the John ? WV relationship? Nothing ends up happening between these two at all! These are perfect examples of how Nepeta can take platonic relationships that resemble romance and take them to mean something more than they actually are, a tendency that is more noticeable in Act 5 Act 1, which brings me to... B. Here is a wall full of Nepeta's ships, some of which are completely wrong. Most of my point I've already made earlier in this post but to address your examples: Foe Yay is a relationship where two people love each other despite (or perhaps even because of) being enemies, but if you notice, it's still a relationship based on love. As for hate sex, I've never heard of it beyond the context of Homestuck, but it sounds like a sexual encounter without any sort of romance, which is not what kismesissitude is.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Sept 3, 2017 13:46:53 GMT
Responces to alleywaycreeper: I'd argue that was the whole purpose of the John Terezi ship: to state to the readers before the comic ended that yes, humans could feel black affection, if only on some level. Whether I had my own conflicting headcannons about blackrom at that point or not, I couldn't argue with what the comic itself told me. It would've been dishonest of me to hold on to outdated ideas as if they were as true even when they conflicted with cannon. I'll admit, it's hard to argue with the fact that John Terezi was likely intended by Hussie to show that humans can feel blackrom feelings. I just find it hard to accept because it goes against everything that had been previously established about the relationship making it feel like a retcon. Because of this, and because of what I've said already about how this relationship might not actually exist, it is my headcanon that humans can't feel blackrom feelings, despite what is likely Hussie's intent, and I also feel that humans cannot have such feelings in real life. It never felt like a retcon to me. Terezi and John's thing just seemed more like the puppy-love version of kismessitude. Not to mention that both the various nature vs. nurture themes and the fact that everything we were told about the trolls being a naturally violent race turned out to be wrong contributes to the idea that the 'kismessitude is purely based on hate with no love that humans can't understand' should've been taken with a pinch of salt even before the last chapter. Yes about this part, but... Not about this part. The sexual attraction is something that's part of both redrom and blackrom. The attraction that defines blackrom is an attraction through hate that is equivalent to the attraction through love that defines redrom, and it's a type of attraction that humans can't feel. That's what I meant, that you were saying the type of sexual attraction that draws two lovers together is different depending on whether the lovers are red or black. I hate to break it to you, but Homestuck is packed full of little tidbits that don't actually mean anything. Not all of them fit the themes so well. I think you're reading too much into things, while there are some deliberate parallels between the girls and their ancestors, there are also a great many differences. For one thing, Terezi and Vriska started as allies, which Mindgang and Redglare never were. I could go on, but we're getting more and more off track from the overall point. Technically they started off as allies on Beforus, but even discounting that I'd say their relationship and how it eventually ended is more important than how they got there both because the story focuses on it so much and because it so strongly parallels their descendants' relationship. Superficial differences don't discount the more profound similarities. Two things: A. You're telling me that Karkat actually would have actually been in a blackrom relationship with himself if it weren't for Jade's mediation? I know he did mentions having such feelings toward himself, but it came off him just deluding himself, and I doubt Jade actually helped much. Actually, Karkat's and Jade's and Future Karkat's fight is the turning point in their relationship. It's the conversation they have after this one that he apologizes to her and they start having a constructive dialogue and relationship. Also, where's the John ? WV relationship? Nothing ends up happening between these two at all! These are perfect examples of how Nepeta can take platonic relationships that resemble romance and take them to mean something more than they actually are, a tendency that is more noticeable in Act 5 Act 1, which brings me to... I'd say this is pretty accurate in it's just Nepeta going 'What even is this?' B. Here is a wall full of Nepeta's ships, some of which are completely wrong. Yes, I double checked that before replying before. I stand by everything that I said. Most of my point I've already made earlier in this post but to address your examples: Foe Yay is a relationship where two people love each other despite (or perhaps even because of) being enemies, but if you notice, it's still a relationship based on love. Not always. While there are examples where something like love is present, there are plenty without it. But it doesn't really matter. The comic establishes humans can feel black romance in the world of Homestuck, so whether humans in the real world can feel it is irrelevant. This says to me that either humans are capable of this loveless sexual hate in Homestuck, or Kismessitude was never completely devoid of love or affection to start with. I brought up its similarity with foe yay (which was probably an inspiration for it) because it makes me feel the reality is the latter, considering how the troll species have been manipulated by LE's agents to the point they don't even have the slightest clue what they're really like when some outside influence isn't fucking with them. Not to mention the fact that platonic hate is a thing among trolls, or else Gamzee's and Eridan's murder sprees would've gotten Kanaya and Karkat all hot and bothered, which suggests there's more than just hate that triggers the sexual attraction.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Sept 5, 2017 17:27:23 GMT
We should probably continue to keep are discussion spoilered, as it's getting rather long: Responces to alleywaycreeper: I'll admit, it's hard to argue with the fact that John Terezi was likely intended by Hussie to show that humans can feel blackrom feelings. I just find it hard to accept because it goes against everything that had been previously established about the relationship making it feel like a retcon. Because of this, and because of what I've said already about how this relationship might not actually exist, it is my headcanon that humans can't feel blackrom feelings, despite what is likely Hussie's intent, and I also feel that humans cannot have such feelings in real life. It never felt like a retcon to me. Terezi and John's thing just seemed more like the puppy-love version of kismessitude. Not to mention that both the various nature vs. nurture themes and the fact that everything we were told about the trolls being a naturally violent race turned out to be wrong contributes to the idea that the 'kismessitude is purely based on hate with no love that humans can't understand' should've been taken with a pinch of salt even before the last chapter. I always thought that even the Alpha trolls had a violent side, it was just suppressed by their culture. Note how violent Damara's breakdown was, and how easily Aranea switched to emulating Mindfang when the opportunity presented itself. Yes the nurture made a big difference, but the nature was more violent than humans regardless. Yes about this part, but... Not about this part. The sexual attraction is something that's part of both redrom and blackrom. The attraction that defines blackrom is an attraction through hate that is equivalent to the attraction through love that defines redrom, and it's a type of attraction that humans can't feel. That's what I meant, that you were saying the type of sexual attraction that draws two lovers together is different depending on whether the lovers are red or black. No, the type of romantic attraction is different between redrom and blackrom, the sexual attraction is the same either way. Keep in mind that what started this part of the conversation was how vacillation was possible despite being so different, and it's the fact that they share the same sexual attraction that causes this. I hate to break it to you, but Homestuck is packed full of little tidbits that don't actually mean anything. Not all of them fit the themes so well. I think you're reading too much into things, while there are some deliberate parallels between the girls and their ancestors, there are also a great many differences. For one thing, Terezi and Vriska started as allies, which Mindgang and Redglare never were. I could go on, but we're getting more and more off track from the overall point. Technically they started off as allies on Beforus, but even discounting that I'd say their relationship and how it eventually ended is more important than how they got there both because the story focuses on it so much and because it so strongly parallels their descendants' relationship. Superficial differences don't discount the more profound similarities. I'm not saying there isn't a connection there, because there is; but there doesn't need to be an actual blackrom relationship between Terezi and Vriska for this parallel to exist. Not every rivalry is a blackrom rivalry, and Terezi and Vriska showed no signs of feeling that sort of attraction for each other. Two things: A. You're telling me that Karkat actually would have actually been in a blackrom relationship with himself if it weren't for Jade's mediation? I know he did mentions having such feelings toward himself, but it came off him just deluding himself, and I doubt Jade actually helped much. Actually, Karkat's and Jade's and Future Karkat's fight is the turning point in their relationship. It's the conversation they have after this one that he apologizes to her and they start having a constructive dialogue and relationship. Yes but was this an actual blackrom relationship between Karkat and himself that Jade broke up? No, it was a platonic relationship resembling blackrom. Nepeta latched onto that and exaggerated it for her ship. It's like when a fangirl sees two close friends having fun together and says they're totally lovers because of this. Also, where's the John ? WV relationship? Nothing ends up happening between these two at all! These are perfect examples of how Nepeta can take platonic relationships that resemble romance and take them to mean something more than they actually are, a tendency that is more noticeable in Act 5 Act 1, which brings me to... I'd say this is pretty accurate in it's just Nepeta going 'What even is this?' Yes but it's up there with her ships. Her putting it on a wall is a statement that there's romance there, she's just not sure what. But she is wrong, there was no romance there of any sort. B. Here is a wall full of Nepeta's ships, some of which are completely wrong. Yes, I double checked that before replying before. I stand by everything that I said. So Kanaya Tavros? Karkat Vriska? Kanaya Karkat? When did these relationships happen? And Terezi Gamzee is in the wrong quadrant. Most of my point I've already made earlier in this post but to address your examples: Foe Yay is a relationship where two people love each other despite (or perhaps even because of) being enemies, but if you notice, it's still a relationship based on love. Not always. While there are examples where something like love is present, there are plenty without it. But it doesn't really matter. The comic establishes humans can feel black romance in the world of Homestuck, so whether humans in the real world can feel it is irrelevant. Well, if there are forms of foe yay where it is a romantic relationship, but without love, than I am forced to concede kismesis-like relationships exist outside of homestuck, and whether they can happen in real life is ... debatable. My point about love not being part of it still stands, though. Not to mention the fact that platonic hate is a thing among trolls, or else Gamzee's and Eridan's murder sprees would've gotten Kanaya and Karkat all hot and bothered, which suggests there's more than just hate that triggers the sexual attraction. I'm not sure why this is relevant. They can feel the same sort of hatred as humans as well, but that doesn't mean there isn't another form of hate they feel that is romantic. It's equivalent to the distinction between liking someone and loving someone.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Sept 6, 2017 13:46:53 GMT
It's the only content in this forum why bother spoiler tagging it?
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Post by spadesnoir1234 on Sept 8, 2017 13:12:08 GMT
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to derail the thread ;_;
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coppelius
Bravesprout
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Post by coppelius on Sept 8, 2017 14:19:52 GMT
I think the comic started taking itself too seriously somewhere between the beginning of act 5 and act 6 and it ended up being worse off for it. Once Homestuck became "character-driven" with the trolls it stopped being compatible with Hussie's writing strengths in humor and convoluted world building with game abstractions. I hoped with Act 6 (and got it for awhile) we'd have a fun sort of return to the style of the earlier comic, but soon things slid into teen drama and before I knew it there was ANOTHER set of trolls with all of their feuds and stuff.
Also I think the theme of fate/free-will should have been done more subtly.
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SquareWave
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Murrsuiters should die.
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Post by SquareWave on Sept 11, 2017 5:25:02 GMT
Equius has the best character arc.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Sept 11, 2017 13:13:53 GMT
Equius has the best character arc. That's because he was one of only like, 10% of characters to have their arc completed.
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celestialphilosopher
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Post by celestialphilosopher on Nov 9, 2017 18:43:56 GMT
I like Aranea.
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Post by sigh on Nov 11, 2017 10:55:19 GMT
Aranea was fine as a character, but I was more confused than anything at where things with her went, and I'm still not entirely sure why she went crazy like she did.
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Post by obsidalicious on Nov 12, 2017 8:31:01 GMT
Aranea was fine as a character, but I was more confused than anything at where things with her went, and I'm still not entirely sure why she went crazy like she did. I think the deal with Aranea's turn was that her and Vriska's personalities bounced off of each other in the worst possible way: Aranea's exposition n' stuff put grand ideas into Vriska's head about cosmic quests etc., meanwhile Vriska's glory-hogging pro-activeness made Aranea want to try and be the hero herself. But I agree that, even if that is the case, it was very abrupt and poorly written and came across more as a quick plot device than any real character development.
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Pandora
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Post by Pandora on Nov 13, 2017 15:04:23 GMT
Equius has the best character arc. Equius has a character arc?
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celestialphilosopher
Juvesquirt
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Post by celestialphilosopher on Nov 17, 2017 14:03:16 GMT
Equius has the best character arc. Equius has a character arc? Technically, yes he does. I don't want to go into heavy detail, but do you remember when Arquissprite apologized to fefetasprite (causing her to fefetasplode) and then later to Davepetasprite for not protecting Nepeta from Gamzee? That was it. That was his character arc.
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Post by professionalasshole on Nov 25, 2017 20:11:30 GMT
Dunno if this really counts as a unpopular opinion but I wished WV played a bit more of a role in Act 6. He didn't really do anything then just be there. Look I love WV as a character but it would have not made much of a difference if WV died in Cascade.
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Post by sigh on Nov 27, 2017 6:37:23 GMT
The chess characters in general were a particularly heinous example of being set up to be important and then getting the shaft in the end for seemingly no reason when it comes to characterization.
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Post by melonlord on Nov 27, 2017 20:54:50 GMT
*cough*SPADES SLICK*cough*
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Post by professionalasshole on Nov 27, 2017 21:04:28 GMT
The chess characters in general were a particularly heinous example of being set up to be important and then getting the shaft in the end for seemingly no reason when it comes to characterization. Apart from PM and Jack Noir. But that's it really.
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Post by sigh on Nov 28, 2017 5:59:36 GMT
The chess characters in general were a particularly heinous example of being set up to be important and then getting the shaft in the end for seemingly no reason when it comes to characterization. Apart from PM and Jack Noir. But that's it really. But, like, what in the end was the point of their narrative arc in the end? Bec Noir as a villain was set up to be a massive threat that required a significant amount of manpower to deal with, and both his and PM's depowerings/defeatings had little to no impact on the rest of the plot outside of "oh I guess we should tie up this loose end that it wouldn't make sense to not mention." Dude killed like, ALL of the original kid's parents, even Bec if you count him being required for the prototyping, and his defeat was made to basically be a non-issue.
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Post by obsidalicious on Nov 28, 2017 6:20:26 GMT
Apart from PM and Jack Noir. But that's it really. But, like, what in the end was the point of their narrative arc in the end? Bec Noir as a villain was set up to be a massive threat that required a significant amount of manpower to deal with, and both his and PM's depowerings/defeatings had little to no impact on the rest of the plot outside of "oh I guess we should tie up this loose end that it wouldn't make sense to not mention." Dude killed like, ALL of the original kid's parents, even Bec if you count him being required for the prototyping, and his defeat was made to basically be a non-issue. sWell actually BN and BB actually had incredibly crucial roles during the climax of the story. You see, their ongoing fight provided the perfect excuse for Jade to be technically present during Collide while not actually doing anything of note. This is important because Jade's power is so much more than her peers, if she was actually able to help them the fight would be over too quickly. s
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Post by ashercrane on Nov 28, 2017 16:28:44 GMT
Probably not all that unpopular, really, but I think the "canon" definitions from the WP test are shallow, incomplete, somewhat don't even adhere to canon, and I personally extremely dislike them
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