The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Jun 21, 2016 15:02:29 GMT
possibly unpopular opinion??: all this stuff is really fascinating and fun to talk about. It really was a stroke of genius or possibly just luck that the comic spawned all this, and I can really see why one would make a whole game around it. Troll customs, life, and all of that, not just the romantic aspects, though that is a factor. That is quite possibly the least unpopular of all the "unpopular" opinions stated on this thread. In fact, what you're referring to is one of the most major reasons Homestuck became popular in the first place.
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thedude3445
Scampermaster
Homestuck? More like, Homo suck... oh wait...
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Post by thedude3445 on Jun 21, 2016 20:29:51 GMT
Maybe unpopular opinion: If Hussie threw a PSYCHE at us for Act 6 and focused on the Beforus Trolls for most of the story with the Alpha Kids becoming somewhat minor characters, I think the story would have been better off for it.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 22, 2016 1:40:14 GMT
I never bought that troll romance was a strictly biological thing. The quadrants dovetail nicely with the weird emotional and physical suppression and regulation of Alternian society, so I always figured it was cultural before it was anything else. That said I don't like TerezixJohn just because it was a (potential?) ship introduced at just about the last second. I mean I don't really mind it but I don't care for it. By all indications, the very different Beforus society also has the same set of romances, indicating that biology is a major, if not sole factor in its origin. Not to mention that the Carapacians also dabble in Blackrom despite it not having much effect on their very brief, and simple existence, which suggests that it is fully possible to be a natural, biological function of organic lifeforms. Beforan or not, they were still trolls, and I can't imagine the culture was completely unrecognizable from Alternia. Plus, isn't the fact that the Carapacians could experience black romance a mark in the 'not biologically unique to trolls and cherubs' column? I mean, we don't even know that Carapacians reproduce without cloning machines.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 22, 2016 3:42:31 GMT
Beforan or not, they were still trolls, and I can't imagine the culture was completely unrecognizable from Alternia. Plus, isn't the fact that the Carapacians could experience black romance a mark in the 'not biologically unique to trolls and cherubs' column? I mean, we don't even know that Carapacians reproduce without cloning machines. Your hypothesis was that Black Rom was an artificial construct invented by Alternians to help maintain their social structure yes? I'm saying that the existence of Black Rom in other species indicates that it is possible to be a natural biological function, since I can't conceive of how it'd be an artificial construct to them as it serves little to no purpose to Carapacians and their social structure.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 22, 2016 6:59:25 GMT
Beforan or not, they were still trolls, and I can't imagine the culture was completely unrecognizable from Alternia. Plus, isn't the fact that the Carapacians could experience black romance a mark in the 'not biologically unique to trolls and cherubs' column? I mean, we don't even know that Carapacians reproduce without cloning machines. Your hypothesis was that Black Rom was an artificial construct invented by Alternians to help maintain their social structure yes? I'm saying that the existence of Black Rom in other species indicates that it is possible to be a natural biological function, since I can't conceive of how it'd be an artificial construct to them as it serves little to no purpose to Carapacians and their social structure. But then why would Carapacians have it at all, if it didn't have anything to do with their social structure or biological reproduction?
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 22, 2016 7:14:51 GMT
But then why would Carapacians have it at all, if it didn't have anything to do with their social structure or biological reproduction? Who knows? Perhaps a Sburb Session carries over effects and attributes from recent player species. Perhaps Skaia believes that a species with Blackrom makes the best Exiles. Perhaps Carapacians are actually some ancient race of players who through some sort of shenanigans have been coopted into the workings of Sburb, much like the mitochondria of earthly eukaryotes.
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Post by Gab on Jun 22, 2016 14:24:44 GMT
That is quite possibly the least unpopular of all the "unpopular" opinions stated on this thread. In fact, what you're referring to is one of the most major reasons Homestuck became popular in the first place. Fair enough. Sometimes in here it gets a little hard determining which are the actual unpopular opinions. I'm not surprised I'd be the one to hit that threshold.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 23, 2016 4:06:57 GMT
Unpopular Opinion(I think): People take the 'Gamzee is immortal' thing way too seriously. character!Hussie was clearly joking when he said it, and even if he wasn't, the character admitted at another point that he wasn't omniscient. Despite that, a lot of people seemed to have taken "Gamzee = Immortal" as some sort of fundamental principle of reality that can never be broken. His tenacity and ability to get involved with everything can easily be explained through mundane means, he's not as mysterious or magical as some people seem to think he is.
If it was just a Joke Theory about him then fine. But multiple times I've seen people attempt to debunk certain theories and speculations on the grounds that it had Gamzee die and that simply can't happen. Or when people say that it was Gamzee's death that made Game Over a Doomed Timeline, all that other stuff was just noise and decoration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2016 8:58:26 GMT
Unpopular Opinion(I think): People take the 'Gamzee is immortal' thing way too seriously. character!Hussie was clearly joking when he said it, and even if he wasn't, the character admitted at another point that he wasn't omniscient. Despite that, a lot of people seemed to have taken "Gamzee = Immortal" as some sort of fundamental principle of reality that can never be broken. His tenacity and ability to get involved with everything can easily be explained through mundane means, he's not as mysterious or magical as some people seem to think he is. If it was just a Joke Theory about him then fine. But multiple times I've seen people attempt to debunk certain theories and speculations on the grounds that it had Gamzee die and that simply can't happen. Or when people say that it was Gamzee's death that made Game Over a Doomed Timeline, all that other stuff was just noise and decoration. i am pissed of by this one argument: "Gamz can't die cuz alpha timeline needs him for creation of LE" alpha timeline needs fuckton of things for creation of LE, by this logic entirety of paradox space should be indestructable
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 23, 2016 11:36:23 GMT
Unpopular Opinion(I think): People take the 'Gamzee is immortal' thing way too seriously. character!Hussie was clearly joking when he said it, and even if he wasn't, the character admitted at another point that he wasn't omniscient. Despite that, a lot of people seemed to have taken "Gamzee = Immortal" as some sort of fundamental principle of reality that can never be broken. His tenacity and ability to get involved with everything can easily be explained through mundane means, he's not as mysterious or magical as some people seem to think he is. If it was just a Joke Theory about him then fine. But multiple times I've seen people attempt to debunk certain theories and speculations on the grounds that it had Gamzee die and that simply can't happen. Or when people say that it was Gamzee's death that made Game Over a Doomed Timeline, all that other stuff was just noise and decoration. i am pissed of by this one argument: "Gamz can't die cuz alpha timeline needs him for creation of LE" alpha timeline needs fuckton of things for creation of LE, by this logic entirety of paradox space should be indestructable It kind of doesn't need all that much.
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Post by GreatKaiserNui on Jun 24, 2016 7:52:36 GMT
I am of the opinion that if we had given Hussie forever to finish the comic, he would have eventually stopped updating it altogether. What exactly do you mean by giving Hussie more time? I don't recall many people demanding that it had to be done within 7 years. Even if there were, they certainly don't hold any actual authority and didn't actually force his hand. Because Hussie was rushing to get the thing out by 4/13, focused exclusively on the big animations and didn't have the time to get out the regular content that would have tied things up better between Collide and Act 7. That's my guess, anyway. If Hussie needed more time, he should (and probably would) have taken it. A date is a date, and as cool as is to end exactly seven years after it started, he's missed 4/13 before and I think he'd miss it again if he truly felt ending it then would compromise the quality of the comic. Maybe Hussie just doesn't care anymore, but people who don't give a shit about their comic generally don't commission 19-minute animations for it. Personally, my best guess is it's either a fakeout ending or a poorly-executed attempt at some meta-statement about stories. Just to give some context for my statement.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 25, 2016 3:38:33 GMT
Just to give some context for my statement. Well if he left it for a couple more years then yes I'm sure he'd slowly lose interest, but that's not needed. As others have pointed out, the technical accomplishment of the end flashes, plus the other projects in the works shows he still has a lot of passion for Homestuck, enough to fuel his work ethic for a few more months at least, and a few months of updates to just tidy things up would've made the ending much better.
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Georgie
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Post by Georgie on Jun 27, 2016 9:30:17 GMT
Some relatively unpopular opinions that I happen to possess: - Neither Nepeta nor Equius are particularly interesting or funny. Like, at all.
- Kanaya should have stayed dead and not joined the meteor crew. Her lacklustre character arc and presence in Act 6 did not justify her being brought back to life.
- Act 1 didn't drag on and was not boring. In fact, several of its sillier aspects would have been very welcome in later acts.
- Neither Cascade nor Collide are the best flashes in the comic; Game Over is.
- Dave's Pesterlogs usually aren't entertaining to read. In fact, a lot of his dialogue makes me cringe, and not in a good way.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 27, 2016 19:30:19 GMT
I don't think Homestuck's funny. I mean, I generally find it amusing, and there have been one or two times where I laughed out loud at something....but overall I just don't think it's funny.
On a similar note, Hussie can't balance comedy and drama, as far as I can tell. It's a rare talent that he just does not posses to a great degree.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 27, 2016 22:27:55 GMT
I don't think Homestuck's funny. I mean, I generally find it amusing, and there have been one or two times where I laughed out loud at something....but overall I just don't think it's funny. On a similar note, Hussie can't balance comedy and drama, as far as I can tell. It's a rare talent that he just does not posses to a great degree. Agreed. There were parts I found entertainingly funny, and parts I found entertainingly dramatic, but it was always a hard toggle between the two with little transition. Worst was when there was a second of humour jabbed into an otherwise dramatic scene. A good example is the 5x Showdown Combo, where Sollux had his little moment is the middle of everyone standing off with one another. That was just awkwardly jarring to me and didn't do anything except shit on the dramatic tension.
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Post by spacedwarfindustries on Jun 28, 2016 8:59:29 GMT
Some relatively unpopular opinions that I happen to possess: - Kanaya should have stayed dead and not joined the meteor crew. Her lacklustre character arc and presence in Act 6 did not justify her being brought back to life.
I half-agree with this one. While I disagree that she should have stayed dead, because her beatdown is probbably the most badass thing any of the trolls ever did onscreen, she just then... stopped doing anything. And went nowhere. 
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Georgie
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Post by Georgie on Jun 28, 2016 12:35:53 GMT
Agreed. There were parts I found entertainingly funny, and parts I found entertainingly dramatic, but it was always a hard toggle between the two with little transition. Worst was when there was a second of humour jabbed into an otherwise dramatic scene. A good example is the 5x Showdown Combo, where Sollux had his little moment is the middle of everyone standing off with one another. That was just awkwardly jarring to me and didn't do anything except shit on the dramatic tension. I feel that he's been able to pull it off in some instances ( this page comes to mind), but, yes, there are certain other moments in the comic where something that would otherwise be quite funny or serious is ruined by the introduction of something dramatic or comedic respectively. I half-agree with this one. While I disagree that she should have stayed dead, because her beatdown is probbably the most badass thing any of the trolls ever did onscreen, she just then... stopped doing anything. And went nowhere. To me, it's pretty clear that Hussie didn't have much in mind for her other than going out with Rose and reviving the troll race once the game was won. What made things even less interesting is that we weren't ever given much of a reason to doubt that she would achieve her goals. Once we knew that the Condesce was trying to get her hands on a matriorb using Roxy's powers, it was very obvious what was eventually going to happen. Kanaya also ended up not actually having a hand in anything (yet Calliope did, for some reason), which was pretty disappointing. I think that the story would have been better if Kanaya had died but had still continued to search for a way to revive trollkind in death.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Jun 28, 2016 14:07:57 GMT
I don't think Homestuck's funny. I mean, I generally find it amusing, and there have been one or two times where I laughed out loud at something....but overall I just don't think it's funny. On a similar note, Hussie can't balance comedy and drama, as far as I can tell. It's a rare talent that he just does not posses to a great degree. ... Oddly enough, I feel practically the opposite: I think Homestuck has good humor, but it doesn't drama very well. And I suppose because of that I didn't mind the mood whiplash that Homestuck likes to do because it contributes to the humor and there wasn't much serious drama to ruin anyway.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Jun 28, 2016 15:16:47 GMT
Not an unpopular opinion but relevant to the discussion: Homestuck really isn't the only work of media that sometimes ruins drama with silly jokes. I've watched some TV shows that do that exact same off-putting sort of thing.
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Post by yggdrasilsyeoman on Jun 28, 2016 20:57:44 GMT
Hmm, I'm pretty surprised by this opinion re: comedy in Homestuck. Maybe it's because I read a lot of the dialogue out loud, producing more "laugh lines"?
But more importantly I always felt the mood whiplash was a vital narrative mechanic. I think most of us can agree that the machinations of Paradox Spaxe are a vast, cruel cosmic joke on our heroes. So it seems natural to expect that nothing serious can be free from some macabre mockery, and that nothing jovial can be free from some undertone of horror.
I'm thinking particularly of when Aranea topples a house onto the tragically power-mad Jade, causing her very real and distressing death... And then we're forced to read "THIS IS WHAT THE REFRANCE." It's jarring, but it's for a reason: everything is going all screwy and meaningless.
It just never seemed to me like Hussie was really the one behind the mood whiplash in-universe. That felt to me like the hand of LE.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 28, 2016 21:09:47 GMT
Hmm, I'm pretty surprised by this opinion re: comedy in Homestuck. Maybe it's because I read a lot of the dialogue out loud, producing more "laugh lines"? But more importantly I always felt the mood whiplash was a vital narrative mechanic. I think most of us can agree that the machinations of Paradox Spaxe are a vast, cruel cosmic joke on our heroes. So it seems natural to expect that nothing serious can be free from some macabre mockery, and that nothing jovial can be free from some undertone of horror. I'm thinking particularly of when Aranea topples a house onto the tragically power-mad Jade, causing her very real and distressing death... And then we're forced to read "THIS IS WHAT THE REFRANCE." It's jarring, but it's for a reason: everything is going all screwy and meaningless. It just never seemed to me like Hussie was really the one behind the mood whiplash in-universe. That felt to me like the hand of LE. My problem with it was that's the kind of thing that works when you haven't gotten to know and care about the characters. You can laugh at them because they don't feel like people to you, they just feel like conduits for schadenfreude. But after a certain point, after the characters have been developed to a certain extent and after the characters have suffered so much, you want good things to happen to them and you don't find bad things happening to them as funny anymore. It didn't matter to me who was the culprit, Hussie or Paradox Space, I couldn't enjoy it all that much. And I stopped enjoying it way before Jade bit it. It was probably around Act 5 where I officially got kind of tired of it.
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Post by yggdrasilsyeoman on Jun 28, 2016 22:56:45 GMT
Hmm, I'm pretty surprised by this opinion re: comedy in Homestuck. Maybe it's because I read a lot of the dialogue out loud, producing more "laugh lines"? But more importantly I always felt the mood whiplash was a vital narrative mechanic. I think most of us can agree that the machinations of Paradox Spaxe are a vast, cruel cosmic joke on our heroes. So it seems natural to expect that nothing serious can be free from some macabre mockery, and that nothing jovial can be free from some undertone of horror. I'm thinking particularly of when Aranea topples a house onto the tragically power-mad Jade, causing her very real and distressing death... And then we're forced to read "THIS IS WHAT THE REFRANCE." It's jarring, but it's for a reason: everything is going all screwy and meaningless. It just never seemed to me like Hussie was really the one behind the mood whiplash in-universe. That felt to me like the hand of LE. My problem with it was that's the kind of thing that works when you haven't gotten to know and care about the characters. You can laugh at them because they don't feel like people to you, they just feel like conduits for schadenfreude. But after a certain point, after the characters have been developed to a certain extent and after the characters have suffered so much, you want good things to happen to them and you don't find bad things happening to them as funny anymore. It didn't matter to me who was the culprit, Hussie or Paradox Space, I couldn't enjoy it all that much. And I stopped enjoying it way before Jade bit it. It was probably around Act 5 where I officially got kind of tired of it. For me it's actually nothing to do with schadenfreude! And I found that the macabre brutality paid off more effectively the more I cared about characters who died in stupid ways. It was the same with the shaving cream bomb, and Equius getting turned on by his death, and "THIS IS STUPID/pchoooo" seguing directly into The Calsprite timeline. At these moments, we are screaming, but Paradox Space is laughing. So I guess in my experience it was never as simple as "Oh, a SBaHJ refrance here, of all places? Hilarious!" Rather, it was "Wow, this sequence is emotionally exhausting - and now SBaHJ??? Jeez!! You conniving bastard." (Followed by a chuckle in disbelief). As a Homestuck reader, my investment in the characters is innately worthy of punishment, because that's the world Caliborn prepared. I mean, I can totally understand why those reading a conventional story would be infuriated by the Whiplash Thing and never like it. But it was integral to my Personal Homestuck Enjoyment Quotient! (Or PeHEQ, if we wanna start quantifying this nonsense).
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 28, 2016 23:41:28 GMT
My problem with it was that's the kind of thing that works when you haven't gotten to know and care about the characters. You can laugh at them because they don't feel like people to you, they just feel like conduits for schadenfreude. But after a certain point, after the characters have been developed to a certain extent and after the characters have suffered so much, you want good things to happen to them and you don't find bad things happening to them as funny anymore. It didn't matter to me who was the culprit, Hussie or Paradox Space, I couldn't enjoy it all that much. And I stopped enjoying it way before Jade bit it. It was probably around Act 5 where I officially got kind of tired of it. For me it's actually nothing to do with schadenfreude! And I found that the macabre brutality paid off more effectively the more I cared about characters who died in stupid ways. It was the same with the shaving cream bomb, and Equius getting turned on by his death, and "THIS IS STUPID/pchoooo" seguing directly into The Calsprite timeline. At these moments, we are screaming, but Paradox Space is laughing. So I guess in my experience it was never as simple as "Oh, a SBaHJ refrance here, of all places? Hilarious!" Rather, it was "Wow, this sequence is emotionally exhausting - and now SBaHJ??? Jeez!! You conniving bastard." (Followed by a chuckle in disbelief). As a Homestuck reader, my investment in the characters is innately worthy of punishment, because that's the world Caliborn prepared. I mean, I can totally understand why those reading a conventional story would be infuriated by the Whiplash Thing and never like it. But it was integral to my Personal Homestuck Enjoyment Quotient! (Or PeHEQ, if we wanna start quantifying this nonsense). Yeah, I never attributed anything to Caliborn and I still don't. And that whole 'Paradox Space is to blame' thing couldn't even come in until later, when the themes of stagnation start coming up post Cascade. It just never seemed personal enough to be because of the whims of Paradox Space, it was more like kids whose houses kept getting hit by a tornado.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Jul 2, 2016 8:42:57 GMT
Alpha Dirk is not as much an asshole as people make him out to be. Most HS girls are/become pretty boring. Their character would only have benefited from more quirkiness, more flaws and more personal and/or interpersonal conflict. Penis Ouija was creepier than it was funny. I actually got to agree with the second one. A lot of people love the girls in the comic, and I do agree that they're a main highlight but their character arcs became just as bad as the boys in the end. I think the strider's arcs were the only one I was somewhat satisfied with in the end. Anyway: I'm not a huge fan of Davepeta (not sure if this is an unpopular opinion) Gamzee's arc should have been explored more rather than what he was given (once again, not sure if this is an unpopular opinion) Nepeta was an annoying and terrible character. Jade Harley is the second best kid, only below Dave. I don't get why Bro's abuse was getting treated as something very serious, but the fight scene with John and Dad never gets talked about (I mean John was attacking Dad with a hammer). Same with Rose and her mum. I didn't like how the comic picked and chose what abuse to take seriously. JohnRoxy is a boring ship. I still think that JohnVris was a perfect ship, but that's just me. Eridan was an interesting character and I liked him more than Feferi, Gamzee, Nepeta and Equius. Those four were terrible characters. Vrisrezi is a terrible and unhealthy ship, and those two have better relationships with other characters than each other. I mean they probably did had a good friendship but we were never shown it so... *shrug* I don't like a lot of popular fan headcanons, like how with Karkat is portrayed to be a precious baby with a giant sweater. On the topic of Karkat, I actually didn't like the way he was portrayed in the final moments of Homestuck and I thought a lot of his lines were OOC. It was like he became what his fans thought his was.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Jul 2, 2016 12:52:42 GMT
I don't get why Bro's abuse was getting treated as something very serious, but the fight scene with John and Dad never gets talked about (I mean John was attacking Dad with a hammer). Same with Rose and her mum. I didn't like how the comic picked and chose what abuse to take seriously. Not to mention Jade's home life! Hers could've totally been Cerebus syndrome'd as well, with an old man letting her play with guns as a kid, stranded alone on an island with a dog after he died, and all that stuff.
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