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Post by godlessauspistice on Apr 13, 2016 18:55:01 GMT
Hey guys! For now, lets avoid talking about Act 7 for a bit and try to keep this a spoiler free zone! As for Nightfall and it's future... As soon as I get some personal issues sorted out in my life, I'm hoping to make some sort of thing connecting Homestuck's ending to Nightfall's beginning. How much I'm going to have to bend the rules in order to fix plot holes, whether that be altering events in Homestuck OR Nightfall has yet to be determined. Maybe we will get the forums back in the mean time, who knows? Neon, Hussie confirmed that he is making the epilogue. Maybe Nightfall can't be so far off... unless you alter some things... I don't think I can come up with an explanation. Nightfall is good as you make it be, and everyone here loves your work.
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Post by Jorb on Apr 13, 2016 19:23:52 GMT
I figured that Nightfall was firmly cemented as AU ever since Davepetasprite^2 became a thing, since Nightfall has Davesprite, but if you want to try tying it in, go right ahead. I can certainly see why you'd want to be as canon-compliant as possible.
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drallis
Greentike
wut
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Post by drallis on Apr 13, 2016 19:48:22 GMT
At the moment you have a lot of wiggle room as it is.
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Post by Derion Azarin III on Apr 13, 2016 21:44:21 GMT
Welp, I'm back from the dead. I'll probably make a new account under the name doomsdayArtificer (since I kinda intended to do that anyway back when MSPA Forums still existed...) but he-hey! We've got Nightfall threads back! Huzzah!
If anyone's interested, I can dig up the link to the fan Shinobi I created a while back, Moradrin.
Also Neon, do you still have the links to all the Nightfall music Lequha or whatever-his-name-is-I-can't-quite-remember? I'm very interested in adding it to my playlist.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 13, 2016 23:25:41 GMT
Eh I dunno. I think my main issue is that the characters that ended up making it to the new universe aren't the characters I cared about. So in that regard I'd rather nightfall remain as it is. But Neon can do what she wants, I don't really care. As long as Nightfall is good I'm happy, which it is. Although at the same time since the shipping aspect has remained a lot in the air (except for Karezi apparently which annoys me), Johnvris could still happen. Now that the game is over Vriska may start thinking about relationships again. And since Vriska could have died again in Act 7, her coming back would still make sense. Nightfall has still managed to be a sequel and make sense lol
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Post by Um on Apr 13, 2016 23:56:39 GMT
Well, um, I think that Nightfall will never really get far as a sequel per say due to the fact that none of the end game ships that happened within Homestuck were ever recognized (ae. Rosemary, Davekat, Dirkjake [still not sure about that last one]) within Nightfall. ;; Also, Cantown doesn't exist, carapacians were never seen in Nightfall, and also trolls apparently live on their own separate planet? I think this will only get far as a very very alternate universe.
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neo
Greentike
????????????????????????
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Post by neo on Apr 14, 2016 0:19:02 GMT
Alas my lurking is no moreAgreeing considerably with the above ^^^ I'll digress in spoilers There's honestly not much room for Nightfall being a sequel, but a nice AU is always great. Since there are many aspects of things that are now canon that are not included within this adventure, many changes would have to be made to the comic itself if you truly want it to remain/be a sequel. When you began, it was much easier because the source comic was nowhere near the end yet, and thus a lot more room for ships and other endgame plot-related things. I personally don't like ships that much, but I do like to point out this sort of stuff. I used to love this fanventure(comic? whatever you'd like to call it.) back in the day, but as I reread it more recently, I noticed there was a lot ignored, or very subtle. Your goal was to emphasize Johnvris, which you have done well, but I think there should be a little bit more happening in the background. *thumbs up*
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Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 14, 2016 3:55:08 GMT
Me and Linkzeldi actually have some pretty neat explanations to tie together Homestuck and Nightfall.
Some of it is kiiiiind of a stretch. But I mean, come on, the ending was ambiguous as hell, there is actually a lot of possibility for making shit up that actually kind of makes sense.
For example, the Davepetasprite thing? Dirk uses his powers to separate Nepeta and Davesprite, and Jane revives Nepeta while Davesprite chooses to remain a sprite. I mean, its probably not exactly how Jane and Dirk's powers work, but it at least makes enough sense to be acceptable.
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OverlordJ
Greentike
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Post by OverlordJ on Apr 14, 2016 4:36:39 GMT
I personally don't feel like Nightfall NEEDS to tie into the ending of Homestuck, but if that's what you want to do, go for it, I'm sure that you can pull it off.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 4:40:26 GMT
Alas my lurking is no moreAgreeing considerably with the above ^^^ I'll digress in spoilers There's honestly not much room for Nightfall being a sequel, but a nice AU is always great. Since there are many aspects of things that are now canon that are not included within this adventure, many changes would have to be made to the comic itself if you truly want it to remain/be a sequel. When you began, it was much easier because the source comic was nowhere near the end yet, and thus a lot more room for ships and other endgame plot-related things. I personally don't like ships that much, but I do like to point out this sort of stuff. I used to love this fanventure(comic? whatever you'd like to call it.) back in the day, but as I reread it more recently, I noticed there was a lot ignored, or very subtle. Your goal was to emphasize Johnvris, which you have done well, but I think there should be a little bit more happening in the background. *thumbs up*
Okay, as much as I love Nightfall and I've been recently more interested in it than Homestuck, I do have to agree with that last point. I understand the point of the comic is Johnvris so naturally those two will have a lot of focus, but I do feel that other characters, at least the beta kids + Karkat, Kate, Gary and future Dave, could get a bit more focus since that would make this comic even more awesome. I've noticed that some plot points with characters along the way seemed to have been dropped to give John and Vriska more attention. Like for instance, one thing I've noticed is that Karkat had quite a bit of focus and a plot of his own going on, like being forced to live on earth and trying to adapt to life with John and Vriska, but then he kind of just... got dropped and pushed to the background? It's just things like that that I found disappointing, especially since I was very interested in what was happening to Karkat (but I guess it doesn't help that he's my favourite HS character lol). But other than that, the comic is very good and I love how the chatlogs manage to stay relevant rather than falling victim to pointless filler. Also the fact that the characters stay quite true to their HS counterparts is also really good since I can imagine how hard that would be, especially with characters like Dave and Karkat and even Vriska. And I do think that Vriska has been dealt with a lot better in Nightfall than she has in HS, so that's another bonus. I also love how you're still contributing to this comic despite JohnVris being pretty much sunk. That's a lot of dedication. Also I actually love that idea with the whole Davesprite thing, since I'm in the minority who didn't like what happened to him.
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Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 14, 2016 16:52:27 GMT
I don't know if anyone remembers,
But back on the old forums I mentioned that Homestuck's ending would either kill my interest in Nightfall or suddenly fill us with inspiration?
Well, the latter seems to have happened.
(yay)
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ralte
Juvesquirt
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Post by ralte on Apr 14, 2016 22:23:04 GMT
I don't know if anyone remembers, But back on the old forums I mentioned that Homestuck's ending would either kill my interest in Nightfall or suddenly fill us with inspiration? Well, the latter seems to have happened. (yay) That are good news I would say. Yes, good news. This ending…. What am I supposed to think about it? Hussie said that there is a Epilogue but can it make up for such a lacklustre ending? I mean… Everyone gets a big battle. Everyone but Vriska. Oh, before somebody mentions it: A FEW SECONDS BATTLING HER CREATOR DON’T COUNT! I mean… There was the big final battle with Caliborn? Caliborn is Vriska’s evil counterpart, the way Vriska would be if she truly didn’t care about anyone. A selfish-jerk, only interested in himself vs the egomanic who wants to be loved and adored for her great deeds…. There was something for Vriska to become, a final piece of character development, understanding that she shouldn’t destroy Lord English for herself but for everyone else. But this? spidertrolled-mindcontrolled.tumblr.com/post/142762505899/why-people-are-frustrated-a-critiqueThis little article explained a lot of the problems in a way it helped me to understand my frustrations. The end is also unfair for Lord English. He deserved a proper final battle too. Like Vriska he knows how to tweak everything in a game to his advantage. He could have resisted the Retcon-Powers in several ways while Vriska would have to use her knowledge to counter his attempts to resist the ultimate weapon. Something, anything… This wasn’t an ending. This was a Scrapbook entry which has to be improved. I’m really accepting Nightfall and many other Fanfictions and Fancomics with their Post-Sburb stories over this ending. Neon, do your best to either integrate this ending into Nightfall or change it so it better fits Nightfall please. Well, change it in any case, because it should be different. Good animation doesn’t excuse a badly told ending. Sorry If I ramble so much, I guess I have to get this of my chest. I hope you can forgive me Neon. Nightfall rules!
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 23:55:04 GMT
I agree with everything in that article too. Although to be honest Act 6 as a whole has been pretty bad and probably should get rebooted. And I especually dislike the whole retcon thing and everything that came after it. Post-retcon just all seemed like lazy writing to me.
Also I thought Vriska got plenty of battle time considering who she gets to kill. She probably got the most spotlight in Act7. I was really wanting the plan to fail to see her reaction. She needed to realize that she shouldn't be the hero all the time, but instead her plan went well. I'm still concerned about her not appearing in the future universe.
I never thought I would have to read fanfiction like to fill in the gaps. I don't see why an ending should make me read fanfiction to find out more. I can understand why an increased interest in Nightfall would happen though; the ending was shit, so naturally you want to make it better with this fan comic.
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Post by Derion Azarin III on Apr 15, 2016 3:59:42 GMT
Well, if we're getting nitpicky up in here, why not pick apart the flaws in Nightfall too? THAT seems like a POSITIVELY WONDERFUL THING to do. Just go ahead, take something that has brought people together, inspired hundreds, touched countless lives with a spot of happiness, and COMPLETELY TEAR IT APART. THAT will certainly make people HAPPIER! > Ah, sorry, what the hell am I saying? Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I respect that. There are things I don't like about the ending myself (like the fact that it all seemed kind of rushed, and we never get to see LE's death). But I've just been seeing so much unreasoning hatred spewing from almost every orifice that so-called "fans" have to spew from, it's really getting annoying. What happened to all the things you LIKED about this comic? The things you ENJOYED? When did you forget about the GOOD STUFF? Yeah, remember that? Still a thing. A shitty twist here or dissatisfying ending there never stopped it from being a thing. Whatever. All I have to say really is that the ending - and Homestuck as a whole - had good points and bad points, just like anything else. Andrew is human, just like the rest of us; he makes mistakes, just like us. Besides, it was never about the ending. It was never just about getting closure for anything, or finding out what happened in the end. It was all just about what happened to them along the way. That's why we have things like Nightfall and Black Ink and Wrath of Gods and my as-yet-still-in-the-works work Paradox War. Stuff keeps happening, and it don't stop from keeping from happening. The important thing is that Nightfall's still here. To me, that's reason enough to celebrate. Okay, it's like twelve in the morning, so I'm going to stop typing and go to bed. Take my words as you will.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 22:41:55 GMT
Me and Linkzeldi actually have some pretty neat explanations to tie together Homestuck and Nightfall. Some of it is kiiiiind of a stretch. But I mean, come on, the ending was ambiguous as hell, there is actually a lot of possibility for making shit up that actually kind of makes sense. For example, the Davepetasprite thing? Dirk uses his powers to separate Nepeta and Davesprite, and Jane revives Nepeta while Davesprite chooses to remain a sprite. I mean, its probably not exactly how Jane and Dirk's powers work, but it at least makes enough sense to be acceptable. I think the whole point of Davepeta that Hussie was trying to make was about how two people can come together and complete each-other to the point where they become something so much greater than the sum of their two beings. Splittting them up would probably not-only be unthinkable for Davepeta, but also kind-of cruel. Maybe if bird-Dave was a brain-ghost or time-clone insteead? Besides, it's not even necessary in the context of the story for Nepeta to be alive. We have Janey's life-giving 1UP powers for that And i'm sure that Murderclown McChucklef*ck, being the sick bastard that he is, had all of his murdered friend's corpses stored away... somehow >.> This is all very confusing for me too tbh >.> ...meybe the AU route would uncomplicate things a bit?
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ralte
Juvesquirt
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Post by ralte on Apr 16, 2016 10:04:09 GMT
I think the whole point of Davepeta that Hussie was trying to make was about how two people can come together and complete each-other to the point where they become something so much greater than the sum of their two beings. Splittting them up would probably not-only be unthinkable for Davepeta, but also kind-of cruel. Maybe if bird-Dave was a brain-ghost or time-clone insteead? Besides, it's not even necessary in the context of the story for Nepeta to be alive. We have Janey's life-giving 1UP powers for that And i'm sure that Murderclown McChucklef*ck, being the sick bastard that he is, had all of his murdered friend's corpses stored away... somehow >.> This is all very confusing for me too tbh >.> ...meybe the AU route would uncomplicate things a bit? All those new fused sprites are poor replacements for dead or seldom seen Characters. It worked as a joke on popular ships but NOT as a serious development that is thrown in at the last Minute. Oh and Jane, the good Jane can ressurect them all and with the help of Roxy she could even ressurect the Dead Beforian Trolls. There is no limit for Jane to ressurect as long as Roxy can rob corpses out of the Void for Jane. About Nightfall: Neon, you said you could connect the current ending with Nightfall. But: Your based the Nightfall-Vriska on Past!Vriska who didn't get ressurected or found her way back to the battle against English. Not to mention that Meenah's behaviour towards Past!Vriska was impossible. So, what to do about that? On a lighter note: Kankri is sitting there like a Jarl. Giving out the title of Thane to everyone who is at least a little famous and looks bored even when he the Dragon-Apocalyspe is breaking out.
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Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 16, 2016 19:45:56 GMT
==> Chatlog (The Spoiler Tags on this site suck, so we just aren't gonna use them for now):JOHN: of course Vriska! JOHN: i love having you around!VRISKA: Thank you.JOHN: i’m sure we will find a way to make things right. JOHN: we always have before. JOHN: and... JOHN: well.. JOHN: you know just in case we don’t get the chance... JOHN: i think this is a little overdue. JOHN: let me just...==> ==>==> ==> Chatlog: FDAVE: JOHN! FDAVE: VRISKA! FDAVE: THERE YOU ARE! VRISKA: Oh, gr8. VRISKA: Looks like fun time is over, John. VRISKA: Time for shit to get fucking real.==> ==> Chatlog:FDAVE: guys FDAVE: why the hell werent you answering your phones? FDAVE: i thought she had gotten you guys! JOHN: im sorry dave, i guess i forgot to grab my phone. FDAVE: you forgot to grab your phone??? FDAVE: really? FDAVE: what the hell! FDAVE: why are you guys out here fooling around pretending everything is going to be fine FDAVE: dont you realize that the world is about to fucking end FDAVE: i thought i told you to wait for my instructions FDAVE: what is WRONG with you two? FDAVE: this is exactly why everyone from my timeline fucking died==>
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Post by supercool993 on Apr 16, 2016 20:25:49 GMT
Hi I'm new. Also, Dave why? It was so close why?
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Post by Jorb on Apr 16, 2016 20:32:56 GMT
Ah, feels good to mirror an update again!
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Post by pointycatears on Apr 16, 2016 20:50:45 GMT
No one told me there was a thread here!! I only found out when I saw a post on Tumblr saying there was an update. Thank goodness for that!! I'm glad the story is still going, even if it has been a while since the last update.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2016 21:23:36 GMT
So close no matter how far Couldn't be much more from the heart Forever trusting who we are And nothing else matters Also, Ah, feels good to mirror an update again! We love you too Jorb, you amazing nec-romantic salamander! ^^~♥
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Post by supercool993 on Apr 16, 2016 22:55:20 GMT
I have several things I would like to say 1. A question for Neon, If you were a God Tier what would you be? (Dahni on tumblr gives pretty good descriptions on what each combination would be like) 2. Due to the ambiguity in Homestuck's ending it should be rather easy to connect it to Nightfall; however, Nightfall could just as easily be the Alpha timeline Aranea replaced. (I don't believe it was stated that it became doomed, emphasis on believe I could be wrong.) 3. I love Nightfall and I love JohnVris you're amazing Neon, thank you for making this.
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starstruckzodiac
Greentike
Eating food. *nomnomnomnom*
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Post by starstruckzodiac on Apr 17, 2016 1:47:24 GMT
Oh damn it Dave! You interrupted a beautiful moment!
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Post by Derion Azarin III on Apr 17, 2016 1:52:10 GMT
WE HAZ AN UPD8! HUZZAH!
I love how the title of the panel where John and Vriska almost kiss was just titled "kiss", whereas all the other panels were they didn't get nearly that close had titles more along the lines of "GOD F***ING DAMNIT YOU TWO JUST KISS ALREADY!" Why was this... (Goes back and realizes the next two panels are titled "Daveblock1" and "Daveblock2")
Ooooooooh.
Dave... whyever must thou be such an obstruction? Whyfor must thou be so very much... in the way of things?
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Post by godlessauspistice on Apr 17, 2016 5:16:30 GMT
That was so close and yet so far. Even if I like JohnVris moments, I agree with Future! Dave. Also, I agree with Ralte, Neon. The Vriska of this story is the original Vriska. I really want to punch Hussie for ruining her story arc. Falling in love with John, getting to date his alternate self, have a break up, meet John in person in the dream bubbles, have some drama, etc. All this by logic ends with some rekindling of feelings. However, Hussie choose to discard that, force JohnRoxy and MeenVris (I like some JohnRoxy drawing though), and make Vriska being ditched by Meenah in the cruelest way possible. These are Hussie's three greatest mistakes: MeenVris, the Retcon, and the ambiguity of the ending. MeenVris is as useless as Post-Retcon Davekat. I admire Hussie's artistic skills and deconstruction, but I have learned from him what to not do as a writer.
EDIT: It is good to have Nightfall back, Neon. Also, I must agree with Ralte again. Kankri is becoming like Ulfric Stormcloak.
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