|
Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 18, 2016 1:48:18 GMT
goddammit future dave! and to think you're my favourite nightfall character D:
I don't really agree with Vriska's arc in act 6 in general and I feel that her death in act 5 and dating doomed John was the perfect closure for her. But that doesn't change the fact that Vriska used to have the best character arc I've ever seen in fiction.
|
|
|
Post by godlessauspistice on Apr 18, 2016 3:50:19 GMT
goddammit future dave! and to think you're my favourite nightfall character D: I don't really agree with Vriska's arc in act 6 in general and I feel that her death in act 5 and dating doomed John was the perfect closure for her. But that doesn't change the fact that Vriska used to have the best character arc I've ever seen in fiction. This! Hands down! Finally someone gets the main idea of why I am angry at Hussie! I endured three years of his pauses and retcons! Now I am free and I will make my own stories where characters learn from their mistakes, die with dignity and have bittersweet endings. No more happily ever afters and meta garbage.
|
|
|
Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 18, 2016 4:25:56 GMT
==>Chatlog: VRISKA: Hey! VRISKA: Get the fuck off our 8acks, asshole! VRISKA: Of course we know what’s going on! FDAVE: could have fooled me JOHN: yeah. were just... enjoying our free time while we have it! FDAVE: guys FDAVE: roxy and jade are gone JOHN: gone? what do you mean? FDAVE: they packed up and went on a vacation without telling us FDAVE: theyre relaxing all cool on the beach right now FDAVE: what do you think i mean JOHN: oh no... FDAVE: cristyle FDAVE: i dont know how but she got them FDAVE: and she probably has the ring FDAVE: which means as of the moment we have no offense against her FDAVE: we have to switch ourselves into defensive mode VRISKA: Are you really that surprised? FDAVE: huh? VRISKA: You thought it would be a wonderful idea to hedge all your 8ets on a stupid little magical ring that could get lost?FDAVE: oh im sorry i couldnt come up with a plan as great and helpful as sitting around canoodling in the snow ==> ==>Chatlog:JOHN: guys! JOHN: i know you’re both upset! i am too! JOHN: but you need to calm down. JOHN: dave, just tell us what we need to do now. FDAVE: sigh FDAVE: you are right FDAVE: ok FDAVE: we all need to hide FDAVE: we need to hide before cristyle finds us all and takes us out too FDAVE: you need to pack up and get the hell out of your house FDAVE: like right now FDAVE: ok? JOHN: yeah... VRISKA: So that’s it? VRISKA: We’re just gonna hide like fucking cowards? VRISKA: That’s your plan? FDAVE: its all we can do for now, vriska==> ==>Chatlog:FDAVE: now go inside FDAVE: grab your phones FDAVE: ill go look for a place for us all to hide and text you the location FDAVE: wait no FDAVE: ill come get you FDAVE: i cant risk cristyle getting ahold of anymore information FDAVE: sigh FDAVE: im sorry guys FDAVE: this wasnt supposed to happen
|
|
klego
Juvesquirt
Posts: 13
Pronouns: [any]
|
Post by klego on Apr 18, 2016 5:00:39 GMT
Hello my friends, I am back from the shadows.
|
|
|
Post by The Mather1 on Apr 18, 2016 5:35:34 GMT
So can Future!Dave no longer time travel or does he not realize that stopping Cristyle from kidnapping the girls in the first place would be more effective than resorting to panic mode?
|
|
|
Post by ForestGardener on Apr 18, 2016 6:01:10 GMT
The Mather1 In Nightfall canon, Dave relies on time traveling objects to time travel. And he broke all his time tables as part of a vow to never time travel again. Future Dave used that unreliable, dangerous scarf to get back here and to send Cristyle to the future. He no longer has that.
|
|
|
Post by godlessauspistice on Apr 18, 2016 6:16:29 GMT
Cristyle has become a slasher film villain, or maybe just an evil version of Elmyra. Sorry, I saw one of Nostalgia Critic's recent videos. Anyway, the best strategy they can do is to avoid all the tropes from The Thing by John Carpenter. I haven't seen the original movie though.
|
|
ralte
Juvesquirt
Posts: 15
|
Post by ralte on Apr 18, 2016 15:21:10 GMT
Future!Dave should have done blood tests like in John Carpenters “The Thing” from the beginning with everyone every time. Plus a Flamethrower to turn the first who fails the blood test into an crispy Cyronillian. I hope Vriska will face-off Cristyle in the end in a fight and not some other character that has no personal connection to her. Also I want to repeat my question about Vriska Neon: Neon, you said you could connect the current ending with Nightfall. But: Your based the Nightfall-Vriska on Past!Vriska who didn't get resurrected or found her way back to the battle against English. Not to mention that Meenah's behaviour towards Past!Vriska was impossible. So, what do you plan to do about that Neon? And because we did edits in the past of Nightfall Pictures, I made a new one: Kankri Vantas, Jarl of Electric Boogaloo and High King of the Trigger-Experts.
|
|
|
Post by lostchaos on Apr 18, 2016 23:52:06 GMT
Cool! New update.
BTW, guys, anybody knows what happened to Wrath of Gods? I know this isnt Nightfall-related, but I also like that fanadventure and didnt find where it went after the DDoS attacks
|
|
|
Post by uncertainHavoc on Apr 19, 2016 4:33:58 GMT
Yo just dropping by to point out that Neon wants to design Nightfall to be a continuation for Homestuck. Gonna drop a few answers to a couple questions I see popping up over and over
1. Davesprite can exist in theory due to Dirk's soul splitting powers. He splits Dave and Nepeta apart and then Jane resurrects Nepeta. Same for ARquius, tho not sure where AR is. Not sure what her call was on Jasprosesprite^3 either. 2. Calliope is a thing. 3. Can Town is also a thing. 4. F!Dave not being able to time travel is a plot line that contains spoilers. There is an actual reason for it. 5. For anyone else that was confused, Jade's powers that she used on Hades (In that fight scene towards the beginning of the comic) were not Green Sun Powers, they were SPACE powers that happened to be green.
So yea. That's a thing.
|
|
|
Post by kankri on Apr 19, 2016 12:13:59 GMT
I think we should wait for the epilogue. It's Homestuck. Everything may be turned by 180+180i degrees and all previous attempts to link Homestuck and Nightfall may become a waste of time. Or Act 7 does not have any shenaningans and is fully understandable? The Nightfall plotholes I found at the moment: 1) Can Earth vs. Altered Earth of Nightfall. 1.1) White Act 7 Genesis Frog vs. troll sick frog (Sylja: Engage). Probably John&Co left Universe C with Can Earth to carapacians, moved back to Universe B, massive time shenaningans, viva new Earth. 2) Why was Davepeta splitted? It was so happy. Blowing up Vriska's arm and eye forever would be more just. (oh, man, I love Vrisky Business.) 3) Where are other sprites? Especially GCatavrosprite. 4) Terezi+Vriska, Dave+Karkat, Rose+Kanaya, John+Roxy, Jake+Dirk/Jane, Jade+Davesprite. All the ships are gone. (All of them.) You made Nepeta cry. 4.1) DaveKat, JohnRoxy. Rest in oblivion. 4.2) Jake+Dirk/Jane. Oh come on, this was more than a half of alpha kids' plot. I cannot believe silliness, stupidness and fun are gone. I cannot believe anything could switch them to normal people. 4.3) Rose+Kanaya. If they have become lesbians already, splitting of two clear introverts is unnatural. Why did Rose choose to live on Earth? 4.4) Jade+Davesprite. After pre-Collide kiss... nothing. 4.5) Terezi+Vriska. After Terezi: Remem8er... good Vriska simply decided to break all and travel to John? 4.5.1) What Vriska is the Nightfall protagonist? 4.5.1.1) If the one killed by Terezi, then what's with the one punched by John? Meenah and Tavros, who are just behind her at Act 7, resurrected. What means neither Lord English, not Black Hole had destroyed them. So bad!Vriska must be alive somewhere? 4.6) Vriska: Thief of Shipping. 5) What's with LE? I hope Hussie will explain his fate in the epilogue. But I suspect shenaningans are waiting for us. 6) John's retcon powers. If Hussie won't explain the fate, probably there can be some explanation where the ultimate power was wasted on removing of the unbeatable villain from existence. 7) How was everybody resurrected? Beforan trolls didn't even have corpses. And Calliope is vanished. Mysterious.
Hm. Linking Homestuck and Nightfall better - and without a retcon - would be a difficult task.
|
|
|
Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 19, 2016 17:52:26 GMT
I've actually got an edited version of the Sylja: Engage flash ready to go.
But I lost my access to edit MSPFA because I was inactive for so long, so I haven't switched it out yet. T_T
Also, Vriska in Nightfall is currently the Alpha!Vriska of Homestuck. The one who fought Lord English. Mainly because that Vriska never got a finished character arc, and any semblance of character development was dropped like it was hot.
This might require me to go back and edit some lines, but every since Vriska revived I have been working off the assumption that Nightfall Vriska is her.
|
|
|
Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 19, 2016 18:35:41 GMT
==>==> ==>Chatlog: HADES: You’re very ugly, Mr. Cow. HADES: With your oblong face and droopy ears. HADES: You also lack any practical defensive adaptations, those horns are much too short to gore anything. HADES: There is also much too much weight piled onto your body, and your digestive system is inefficient and far too complex. HADES Basically all you are good for is eating, and then lying down. HADES: But I will protect you from the ensuing chaos, Mr. Cow. HADES: An innocent creature like you deserves to be safe. Cow: Moo HADES: Indeed. ==> ==>Chatlog: HADES: Good cow.
|
|
|
Post by supercool993 on Apr 19, 2016 19:30:56 GMT
Hades did not take his father's rejection, I guess that's what we could call it, very well did he.
|
|
|
Post by ForestGardener on Apr 19, 2016 20:42:26 GMT
... Gary is investigating the mysterious disappearance of 200 cows from some ranch... And thinks the most likely explanation is that they walked out an open gate, not aliens.
This is too funny.
|
|
|
Post by ForestGardener on Apr 19, 2016 20:48:02 GMT
Cool! New update. BTW, guys, anybody knows what happened to Wrath of Gods? I know this isnt Nightfall-related, but I also like that fanadventure and didnt find where it went after the DDoS attacks Last I knew, the author (raveSoldier something or other) was requesting help from musicians on the old forum and was willing to pay for it. I hope he has a full copy on his computer, because only about half of it is on mspfanventures.com as of yesterday.
|
|
ralte
Juvesquirt
Posts: 15
|
Post by ralte on Apr 19, 2016 21:08:39 GMT
Hades has a cow herd?
I... The joke is writing itself.
"Old MacHades had a farm E-I-E-I-O And on his farm he had a cow E-I-E-I-O With a moo moo here And a moo moo there Here a moo, there a moo Everywhere a moo moo Old MacHades had a farm E-I-E-I-O"
Oh, I get the Joke: He is the Alien who abducts cows! So that means that Cristyle abducts Humans and experiments on them, Sylja createss the crop circles and Don Elephante lives with the Tanners. And Terlock can jump over a skycspraper in a single bound.
|
|
|
Post by Ultigom on Apr 19, 2016 22:31:56 GMT
WHAT
|
|
|
Post by Derion Azarin III on Apr 19, 2016 23:58:26 GMT
... Gary is investigating the mysterious disappearance of 200 cows from some ranch... And thinks the most likely explanation is that they walked out an open gate, not aliens. This is too funny. TG: whoa wait TG: what the hell is he doing TG: hes taking their cows what the hell TG: ... TG: well thats a mystery no one even knew was a mystery and didnt even really need solving TG: but shit if it didnt just get solved nice jobHow is this even possible? The one time (ONE TIME) Gary thinks it isn't aliens, it's A f***ing alien. The most incompetent alien to ever alien, to be exact.
I mean really, how did Hades manage to steal all those cows? He can't even keep a magic ring on his huge alien claw-finger.
|
|
|
Post by kankri on Apr 20, 2016 4:15:40 GMT
I've actually got an edited version of the Sylja: Engage flash ready to go. Youtube? Please. But I lost my access to edit MSPFA because I was inactive for so long, so I haven't switched it out yet. T_T Two months. "So long". Oooooooh my god. It would be impossible for Hussie to write a complete fanventure on that website Also, Vriska in Nightfall is currently the Alpha!Vriska of Homestuck. The one who fought Lord English. Mainly because that Vriska never got a finished character arc, and any semblance of character development was dropped like it was hot. This might require me to go back and edit some lines, but every since Vriska revived I have been working off the assumption that Nightfall Vriska is her. That would require an explanation. Bad!Vriska is... um... truly different. 1) Why did selfish!Vriska become not selfish? It's a VERY serious change, the total change of personality. Good!one needed to die and spend over a year to think about what had she done wrong (and still she did not become any nicer to Tavros which she murdered). 2) I can remember Vriska's lines where she mentioned meeting dead John. So welcome the retcon. 3) It would be interesting to see dead!Vriska too. Especially working with alive!one - it would show the quintessence of character development =) Look at their dialogue in Homestuck for example, it shows much. Hades! Now he has enough time for terraforming the Moon =) I wonder what Terlock will say to him. Derion Azarin, he's a ninja shinobi =)
|
|
|
Post by godlessauspistice on Apr 20, 2016 5:26:18 GMT
Oh, I get the Joke: He is the Alien who abducts cows! So that means that Cristyle abducts Humans and experiments on them, Sylja createss the crop circles and Don Elephante lives with the Tanners. And Terlock can jump over a skycspraper in a single bound. That is a version of Alf I would watch. Do you guys remember Alf? He is back! In Shinobi form! Also, Neon... I swear to whatever deity that exists that you should keep Nightfall as the beautiful piece of narrative it is. Don't make a retcon or you will end up like Hussie and Stephen King. Really, I spent two years reading this AU and imagining so many JohnVris moments that involved the end of Act 5. The new Vriska is nothing like the one we all loved and respected, even if she made the mistake of dating Meenah. I can't persuade you to stop this nonsense, but I can tell you that you have done a great work. Retcons are bad, het ships are as good as slash ships, and you can forget canon for once and live your life... unless you do something offensive. Have a good night. EDIT: Hades is so adorable! Also, Gary would be surprised at what happened with the cows.
|
|
ralte
Juvesquirt
Posts: 15
|
Post by ralte on Apr 20, 2016 17:09:32 GMT
Oh, I get the Joke: He is the Alien who abducts cows! So that means that Cristyle abducts Humans and experiments on them, Sylja createss the crop circles and Don Elephante lives with the Tanners. And Terlock can jump over a skycspraper in a single bound. That is a version of Alf I would watch. Do you guys remember Alf? He is back! In Shinobi form! Also, Neon... I swear to whatever deity that exists that you should keep Nightfall as the beautiful piece of narrative it is. Don't make a retcon or you will end up like Hussie and Stephen King. Really, I spent two years reading this AU and imagining so many JohnVris moments that involved the end of Act 5. The new Vriska is nothing like the one we all loved and respected, even if she made the mistake of dating Meenah. I can't persuade you to stop this nonsense, but I can tell you that you have done a great work. Retcons are bad, het ships are as good as slash ships, and you can forget canon for once and live your life... unless you do something offensive. Have a good night. EDIT: Hades is so adorable! Also, Gary would be surprised at what happened with the cows. I would prefer a merge of the two Vriska's to be honest. But yes, the new Alpha!Vriska lacks developments. Seriously, the new Alpha!Vriska needs a sequel herself, as well as dozens of other characters. Neon Quote: “Also, Vriska in Nightfall is currently the Alpha!Vriska of Homestuck. The one who fought Lord English. Mainly because that Vriska never got a finished character arc, and any semblance of character development was dropped like it was hot. This might require me to go back and edit some lines, but every since Vriska revived I have been working off the assumption that Nightfall Vriska is her.” Hmmm… Makes sense in a sense I guess? But this means Nightfall!Vriska deserves a kick in the bulge for treating her doomed self so incredible poorly. Nightfall!Meenah too. Quote by Neon: “HADES: TERLOCK, THAT RING WAS COMPLETELY USELESS! HADES: Dishonor on the ring! HADES: Dishonor on the ring’s family! HADES: Dishonor on the ring’s cow!” Oh, by the Horrorterrors you gave that joke context! I like that!^.^
|
|
|
Post by vereornox on Apr 20, 2016 19:39:37 GMT
That is a version of Alf I would watch. Do you guys remember Alf? He is back! In Shinobi form! Also, Neon... I swear to whatever deity that exists that you should keep Nightfall as the beautiful piece of narrative it is. Don't make a retcon or you will end up like Hussie and Stephen King. Really, I spent two years reading this AU and imagining so many JohnVris moments that involved the end of Act 5. The new Vriska is nothing like the one we all loved and respected, even if she made the mistake of dating Meenah. I can't persuade you to stop this nonsense, but I can tell you that you have done a great work. Retcons are bad, het ships are as good as slash ships, and you can forget canon for once and live your life... unless you do something offensive. Have a good night. EDIT: Hades is so adorable! Also, Gary would be surprised at what happened with the cows. I would prefer a merge of the two Vriska's to be honest. But yes, the new Alpha!Vriska lacks developments. Seriously, the new Alpha!Vriska needs a sequel herself, as well as dozens of other characters. Neon Quote: “Also, Vriska in Nightfall is currently the Alpha!Vriska of Homestuck. The one who fought Lord English. Mainly because that Vriska never got a finished character arc, and any semblance of character development was dropped like it was hot. This might require me to go back and edit some lines, but every since Vriska revived I have been working off the assumption that Nightfall Vriska is her.” Hmmm… Makes sense in a sense I guess? But this means Nightfall!Vriska deserves a kick in the bulge for treating her doomed self so incredible poorly. Nightfall!Meenah too. Quote by Neon: “HADES: TERLOCK, THAT RING WAS COMPLETELY USELESS! HADES: Dishonor on the ring! HADES: Dishonor on the ring’s family! HADES: Dishonor on the ring’s cow!” Oh, by the Horrorterrors you gave that joke context! I like that!^.^ What about the "Ultimate selves" thing Davepetasprite^2 talked about?
|
|
|
Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 20, 2016 19:45:56 GMT
I can assure you all that any changes made to Nightfall will be relatively minor and serve to make the story better. I'm going to pull a Homestuck and negate half my story for no reason. (I am however considering remaking the Halloween Fight with Hades. It will be fundamentally the same, but it will fix a lot of glaring plot holes and "why didnt they just kick his ass with godteir powers" questions)
As for the whole Vriska and (Vriska) thing,
((im gonna refer to alpha!Vriska as Vriska, and the dead one as (Vriska))
I honestly don't understand why everyone hates Vriska for yelling at (Vriska), given she was equally if not more abusive towards Tavros. I do get however that is frustrating to see Vriska actually backtrack on the character development front and not get that resolved, which is part of the reason Homestuck's ending failed for me. It set up potential character development and did not deliver.
The conversation between Vriska and (Vriska) is incredibly interesting to me because it actually tells us a LOT about Vriska and who she is at that moment. It is quite literally, Vriska yelling at herself, venting all of her insecurities. I don't necessarily think that conversation was meant to show that Vriska was an asshole (although that case can absolutely be made and rightly so), but rather to show us what Vriska struggles with in her own head.
It shows us in fact that Vriska is actually VERY insecure, as much as she wants to pretend she has it all figured out.
She is insecure about feeling weak. She is insecure about having a purpose, and being relevant. She is insecure about allowing herself to feel emotional. She is insecure about how she looks to some extent.
Really, Vriska never really got to finish her character arc because it was neccissary to be cold and calculating and heartless in order to defeat Lord English, and lucky for her, the plan worked out perfectly. (However in a good story, Vriska's plan would totally fail and she would be punished by and forced to learn from her extreme arrogance)
But Vriska's character not developing properly is also backed up by a statement made by Kanaya which implies that the Alpha Vriska who fights Lord English is actually not happy, as much as she pretends to be.
KANAYA: She Would Need To Learn To Let Go Of Some Of Her Ambition And Figure Out How To Prioritize The Feelings Of Other People KANAYA: She Might Even Figure Out How To Be KANAYA: Happy KANAYA: *Shudder*
That is also why I'm choosing Nightfall's Vriska to be the continuation of Alpha!Vriska. Because it is interesting to think about, what would Vriska do after she accomplished everything she wanted to? She saved the universe... but then what? Would having done that be fulfilling for her forever? Assuming she actually lived through that, I would venture to say, probably not. She still probably wouldn't be happy, until like Kanaya said, she re-evaluated her priorities in life. Just like how (Vriska) did.
(Vriska's) character development was complete.
Vriska's was not.
And that is why Nightfall will continue the latter's story.
|
|
|
Post by TheNeonWerewolf on Apr 20, 2016 20:04:51 GMT
|
|