cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 21, 2017 0:19:58 GMT
Yeah it fits Homestuck's meta nature too, because when John sends it to Vriska she mentions having to rewind the earth internet to watch it- so being unable to watch the video until she does makes sense. Holy shit, he knew it would happen this whole time.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 21, 2017 18:22:22 GMT
Yeah it fits Homestuck's meta nature too, because when John sends it to Vriska she mentions having to rewind the earth internet to watch it- so being unable to watch the video until she does makes sense. Holy shit, he knew it would happen this whole time. Er, it's really more like the internet would not be around after Sburb's meteor apocalypse, so of course she'd have to dial back the time...
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Post by plainWonder on Apr 22, 2017 14:35:05 GMT
It would make sense that most would-be rainbow drinkers don't reach this status before adulthood, and the children, upholding the society and history of their race, might not have information of the adults out in space, nor records of the ancient past, for whatever reason. You know, I just realized - the breeding caverns are back on Alternia, the planet run by kids. So what do jadebloods that reach adulthood end up doing in space? Taking up general nursing-type responsibilities in the army? Well, the rainbow drinkers among them should be very adept at taking blood donations, in any case.
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Post by Gab on Apr 22, 2017 18:33:38 GMT
I'd love to learn more about a completely decentralized adult troll society. Alas, that will probably not come to pass.
EDIT: And with this, my completely unimpressive and succinct 500th post I have at long last reached MOB1US DOUBL3 R34CH4ROUND status with myself. It feels fitting. It feels right.
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Post by plainWonder on May 13, 2017 9:21:37 GMT
What if the adult (Alternian) trolls, forced into eternal militarized service as they were, were a cross between Star Wars' clone troopers and Polynesian nomads? (Where the Beforan ones might have been closer to a cross between Star Trek Federation ship crews and the aforementioned nomads.)
Forced into a rigid hierarchical structure, personality quirks that deviated from the norm being heavily frowned on yet unavoidable (they're still individuals, after all). Forced to travel from planet to planet, cleaning them (cleansing them), so that they may be incorporated into the Trollian empire, and used as waystations, resource mines, in the neverending quest of the Empress for imperial expansion?
It's an interesting idea, thinking that Feferi's and Meenah's reign might have differed in the fundamental ideas (ruling vs. protecting), yet in their execution, they might have had the same effects, namely forcing the Empress' way of thinking on her people, and the people of all the planets they visited (if they survived First Contact, that is).
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Post by Gab on May 14, 2017 16:28:48 GMT
For that matter, I wonder if there are colonies on conquered worlds, that maintain these far outposts of the empire, keep the indigenous races in check (if they keep them alive anyway), and have a bit of a society on their own. I'm guessing reproduction may be forbidden/impossible, reserved only for the homeworld, and people leaving/arriving on any particular location happens frequently to keep any chances of camaraderie at a minimum.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 14, 2017 21:19:34 GMT
For that matter, I wonder if there are colonies on conquered worlds, that maintain these far outposts of the empire, keep the indigenous races in check (if they keep them alive anyway), and have a bit of a society on their own. I'm guessing reproduction may be forbidden/impossible, reserved only for the homeworld, and people leaving/arriving on any particular location happens frequently to keep any chances of camaraderie at a minimum. I'm guessing there are. We can see from all the Troll kids' rooms that movies, toys, games etc. are things that exist, and with no adults on the Homeworld they must be produced somewhere else, and I highly doubt that the military fleets have Hollywood-esque filming studios on their battlecruisers. They must have cities elsewhere where their culture can keep being a thing.
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Post by Gab on May 15, 2017 1:44:01 GMT
I think Andrew actually says something to that effect. And it would be hilarious if trolls filmed a bunch of tv and movies in between military raids and such, then sent it all back to the homeworld. Also, I just saw this, and kinda nerded out about it. I love us getting mentioned places. youtu.be/kQEv69FNcpc?t=2h14m10s
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Post by obsidalicious on May 15, 2017 6:37:00 GMT
So I had a thought. Y'know how the Trolls gain wings when they ascend because they culturally/subconsciously associate wings with Godhood? It occurs to me that among the infinite number of species that play Sburb out there, some of them must have some really unusual concepts about godhood. What happens to them when they ascend?
Say for example, there's some culture out there that treats their local planets as deities. When they ascend to God Tier do they become Pajama'd Planetoids? Or is there some threshold where Sburb says 'Okay, that's dumb, I'm not turning you into a planet. Just take the flight and immortality.'?
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Post by Blaperile on May 15, 2017 20:25:07 GMT
So I had a thought. Y'know how the Trolls gain wings when they ascend because they culturally/subconsciously associate wings with Godhood? It occurs to me that among the infinite number of species that play Sburb out there, some of them must have some really unusual concepts about godhood. What happens to them when they ascend? Say for example, there's some culture out there that treats their local planets as deities. When they ascend to God Tier do they become Pajama'd Planetoids? Or is there some threshold where Sburb says 'Okay, that's dumb, I'm not turning you into a planet. Just take the flight and immortality.'? Yeah, I think either there is indeed a threshold like that where Sburb just says "hell no", or it just influences the races who play the game in such a way that none of them have crazy deities like that. ...Though now I do want to see some fan-art of pajama'd planetoids.
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Post by Gab on May 15, 2017 21:42:56 GMT
Maybe they would gain qualities similar to planetoids, especially those pertinent to the myths about them. For instance, we named constellations and planets and things after deities, but in the actual mythology they tended to be people, not actual fusion engines or gas giants.
But they might have something like gravity fields and orbital effects, or some other vaguely astronomy-related qualities, without being literally transformed. If trolls are a typical example, the biological modifications seem to be pretty contained, and, if the Summoner is any indication, perhaps not without some representation within normal standards of their race altogether.
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Post by legendary on May 15, 2017 22:07:48 GMT
Maybe some universes are just *really weird* and are inhabited by planets living on gigantic masses of flesh that have attained hydrostatic equilibrium. Frogs have a lot of genetic variety, you know!
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Post by ten 11 on May 16, 2017 0:54:20 GMT
Partially related, but i wish there was a fanventure that involved adult trolls exploring an unknown planet. I feel like it has a lot of potential as an idea, as we never really got to see adult trolls as characters other than the Condesce.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 16, 2017 1:34:11 GMT
Maybe they would gain qualities similar to planetoids, especially those pertinent to the myths about them. For instance, we named constellations and planets and things after deities, but in the actual mythology they tended to be people, not actual fusion engines or gas giants. But they might have something like gravity fields and orbital effects, or some other vaguely astronomy-related qualities, without being literally transformed. If trolls are a typical example, the biological modifications seem to be pretty contained, and, if the Summoner is any indication, perhaps not without some representation within normal standards of their race altogether. Hmmm. If Sburb does indeed grant extra powers for cultural reasons, then I wonder if a group of ex-players looking after a new race could power-game the system by carefully cultivating their races' beliefs to give them ideas about super-badass über-gods so that Sburb gives them more powers and thus produces a higher pedigree of god tiers. Partially related, but i wish there was a fanventure that involved adult trolls exploring an unknown planet. I feel like it has a lot of potential as an idea, as we never really got to see adult trolls as characters other than the Condesce. I would argue that we didn't really see the Condesce as much of a character either. Most of what she did, was just exposited to us, and we only saw a handful of dialogue from her. Without Meenah to act as characterization for her by proxy, she'd be less than even Clubs Duece in terms of character complexity. Besides that, your idea is interesting; it'd basically just be a space opera like Star Wars, but the main cast are from the Empire instead.
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Post by Gab on May 16, 2017 3:18:09 GMT
I have a funny feeling Sburb has a way of being too smart for metagamers of that nature. Besides, their gods are practically omnipotent already, and the overseers of a new creation. Exactly how much more power would one want to give another anyway?
But oh my god, what if a race of anthropomorphic frog people played Sburb.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 16, 2017 6:11:01 GMT
I have a funny feeling Sburb has a way of being too smart for metagamers of that nature. Besides, their gods are practically omnipotent already, and the overseers of a new creation. Exactly how much more power would one want to give another anyway? If the fate of B1!Jack Noir is any indication i.e. severely wounded, under mind control and being leashed up, is any indication, Omnipotence certainly isn't the trump card of power it appears to be. Well, for one thing, such a session would be highly unstable, what with Derse's policy on frogs while also obliged to house half of the players' dreamselves.
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Post by Gab on May 16, 2017 14:43:46 GMT
I don't see how that's relevant. Jack was depowered back to normal by another omnipotent being. Probably because the source of his powers was stolen. Sburb kids can't lose their powers once they've realized them.
And oh my god, YES. That's so perfect. Jack probably has to be jailed from the get go just so he won't murder the Derse dreamers in a frenzy. The queen is probably a wreck too. Meanwhile the Prospit kids would be even more vaunted and worshiped than usual. Every consort freaks out at the sight of them, and every underling attacks them ferociously upon sight.
The Frog Temple is just called the Ordinary Temple.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 16, 2017 21:46:17 GMT
I don't see how that's relevant. Jack was depowered back to normal by another omnipotent being. Probably because the source of his powers was stolen. Sburb kids can't lose their powers once they've realized them. Well that's exactly the point. You wanted to know why someone whose already omnipotent could want more power, and my answer is that there are other omnipotents out there, some of whom may be hostile to you, and apparently omnipotence is the hard counter to omnipotence, so something else on top of that may be necessary.
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Post by Gab on May 17, 2017 14:16:24 GMT
Keep in mind the purpose of Sburb players' powers isn't even to be unstoppable. They're immortal, but will die if it tells a good story. They are eventually meant to die, either by doing something heroic, or necessitating heroism to oppose them. Intentionally manipulating a society's culture to breed stronger God Tiers, I feel, tips closer to the Just side of the scale.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 17, 2017 22:03:15 GMT
Keep in mind the purpose of Sburb players' powers isn't even to be unstoppable. They're immortal, but will die if it tells a good story. They are eventually meant to die, either by doing something heroic, or necessitating heroism to oppose them. Intentionally manipulating a society's culture to breed stronger God Tiers, I feel, tips closer to the Just side of the scale. Why Just? Surely you can understand that there's a very positive interpretation to the act of raising people up and making them stronger and better. Fundamentally, I see this as no different than a parent raising their child to be as gifted/intelligent/skillful as possible.
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Post by Gab on May 19, 2017 1:55:41 GMT
I don't feel I have to struggle to come up with an argument to say seeking more power for its own sake, or for delusive reasons like "protecting the peace" or "making people stronger" is something that, if not fundamentally on the side of moral wrong, walks far too close to that line and tempts evil far too easily.
Look at what horrors were wrought by Caliborn thanks in no small part to advantages afforded to him by his cherubic biology, or the effect trickster mode had on the B2 session. While not things Sburb was directly responsible for, they serve as examples of why God Tiers don't really need additional power boosts.
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axolotlSushi
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Post by axolotlSushi on May 19, 2017 15:42:41 GMT
I don't feel I have to struggle to come up with an argument to say seeking more power for its own sake, or for delusive reasons like "protecting the peace" or "making people stronger" is something that, if not fundamentally on the side of moral wrong, walks far too close to that line and tempts evil far too easily. Look at what horrors were wrought by Caliborn thanks in no small part to advantages afforded to him by his cherubic biology, or the effect trickster mode had on the B2 session. While not things Sburb was directly responsible for, they serve as examples of why God Tiers don't really need additional power boosts. I concur. While, theoretically speaking, evolution would naturally provide that kind of effect, using consciousness and technology to manipulate what was already there is generally a bad idea. Aside from just being morally wrong, think of what, if you got technology involved, could go wrong? Doing something of that nature would, in my opinion, tip the scale more towards the "Just" side of things.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 19, 2017 17:29:37 GMT
I don't feel I have to struggle to come up with an argument to say seeking more power for its own sake, or for delusive reasons like "protecting the peace" or "making people stronger" is something that, if not fundamentally on the side of moral wrong, walks far too close to that line and tempts evil far too easily. First of all, god tiers manipulating society to be better suited to defeat Sburb is not a case of people seeking power for themselves, but rather, it's of people seeking to give other people power. Secondly, just because it's something that can easily tip over into evil does not mean that seeking power is inherently evil. If you study martial arts so you can protect yourself should someone attack you (or better yet so you can protect others should you see someone else getting attacked), is that evil? Of course, you could use martial arts to beat innocent people up too, but that doesn't make learning it automatically evil. Look at what horrors were wrought by Caliborn thanks in no small part to advantages afforded to him by his cherubic biology, or the effect trickster mode had on the B2 session. While not things Sburb was directly responsible for, they serve as examples of why God Tiers don't really need additional power boosts. Caliborn is one instance of a god tier being overly powerful and causing major damage, but it's also an instance where, had the protagonists had more power, they would have been able to deal with him more easily. You could argue it'd be better for Caliborn to have less power rather than the protagonists having more, and that's true, but not providing those in your created universe with more power does nothing to prevent others from powering up with more evil intent. As for trickster mode, well, that wasn't just a power-up, it's a power-up combined with a mental change. And even then, it didn't actually cause any major problems; if anything it had a positive effect, as it set the stage for them to finally talk out their feelings after it wore off. I concur. While, theoretically speaking, evolution would naturally provide that kind of effect, using consciousness and technology to manipulate what was already there is generally a bad idea. Aside from just being morally wrong, think of what, if you got technology involved, could go wrong? Doing something of that nature would, in my opinion, tip the scale more towards the "Just" side of things. I think the distinction between natural and artificial is somewhat arbitrary. We evolved to have large brains to survive, just as other creatures evolved to be more physically capable. In a way, using our mental ability is no different than said other creatures using their physical abilities.
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axolotlSushi
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Post by axolotlSushi on May 19, 2017 18:06:24 GMT
I concur. While, theoretically speaking, evolution would naturally provide that kind of effect, using consciousness and technology to manipulate what was already there is generally a bad idea. Aside from just being morally wrong, think of what, if you got technology involved, could go wrong? Doing something of that nature would, in my opinion, tip the scale more towards the "Just" side of things. I think the distinction between natural and artificial is somewhat arbitrary. We evolved to have large brains to survive, just as other creatures evolved to be more physically capable. In a way, using our mental ability is no different than said other creatures using their physical abilities. You make a good argument, but I beg to differ. Like you said, it's not inherently evil... But, let's be honest here for a moment. While not all species we're dealing with are human, I think it's safe to say that a lot of Sburb-playing species would be at least human-esque, mentally if not physically. And, knowing humans... Do you really expect them all to keep it within the realm of good? Do you really?
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Post by Gab on May 19, 2017 19:15:38 GMT
First of all, god tiers manipulating society to be better suited to defeat Sburb is not a case of people seeking power for themselves, but rather, it's of people seeking to give other people power. Secondly, just because it's something that can easily tip over into evil does not mean that seeking power is inherently evil. If you study martial arts so you can protect yourself should someone attack you (or better yet so you can protect others should you see someone else getting attacked), is that evil? Of course, you could use martial arts to beat innocent people up too, but that doesn't make learning it automatically evil. What we're talking about, in a particularly long-term way, is giving super powers to an essentially random group of people. There's absolutely no guarantee whether it will produce heroes or villains, or guaranteeing that group will use their power justly. My point in citing Caliborn was to point how this particular form of empowerment, leaning on biological or mythological exploitation, could go horribly wrong. To suggest trying to work that angle would produce more harm than good. You'll never be able to stop evil bastards from being evil, but the eternal argument at play here is whether you want to disadvantage the innocent by depowering everyone, or ensuring hellish chaos by giving EVERYONE the potential to be tyrants. Well not every everyone. Just a few sburb players, in theory. But that's the principle. And one application of our mental abilities is the invention of morality, or knowing when to relent. You know. The mentality that stopped us from becoming entrenched in nuclear war. There is also the argument that manipulating a peoples' society, even if it doesn't directly effect them, still robs their race somewhat of their own independence and agency.
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