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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 22, 2017 1:31:46 GMT
Searching for his sister and constant perseverance and assertion of his will mostly. Also, "turn[ing] up places and wordlessly destroy[ing] things" is part of his personality in a way, and I don't see Equius, AR, or Gamzee acting like that. We don't actually know if he was looking for Calliope though. That was just something that the other characters speculated on. No, I mean the physical strike on this page. If he has Caliborn's and Equius' physical strength packed into those arms, then I think that an actual, full strength blow would've instantly killed her. Thus, this looks to me like less of an attack, and more like just aggressively pushing her out of the way. Given that Caliborn, in comparison, put hundreds of bullets into Gamzee even when he wasn't in the way, I don't think that this is purely Caliborn-esque behaviour.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Aug 22, 2017 17:06:27 GMT
No, I mean the physical strike on this page. If he has Caliborn's and Equius' physical strength packed into those arms, then I think that an actual, full strength blow would've instantly killed her. Thus, this looks to me like less of an attack, and more like just aggressively pushing her out of the way. Given that Caliborn, in comparison, put hundreds of bullets into Gamzee even when he wasn't in the way, I don't think that this is purely Caliborn-esque behaviour. Good point regarding him attacking Ms. Paint; I had forgotten that bit (though there's still the fact that Equius fails at controlling his strength). Maybe carapacians are just naturally resilient? Regarding Gamzee, though, I got the impression Caliborn attacked him because he found him unsettling and annoying (the same reason Jane refused him as a guide, really), and not just because he was there.
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Post by Gab on Aug 23, 2017 21:14:16 GMT
I'm curious as to where you actually see his personality though. Unless I'm forgetting something, he says about three lines to teen!Damara, and other than that does nothing but turn up places and wordlessly destroys things. There's more way to glean an individual's personality than reading the things they and seeing the things they do. I grant you that English is something of a mystery so there's more than a little speculative thinking but in my mind things line up towards the vote I cast. It's true there's little he does as LE in the story to give us much to go on. A lot of what we learn from his personality is second hand, gleaning rumors and myths told about him, several from Scratch. This is where we learn what is seemingly the bulk of English's existence, the type we don't actually get to see, of a long life lived offscreen. The mastermind, the brutal dominator, the terror of planets and broker of deals with gods and guardians. Everything we learn about Caliborn on his journey to that point paints clearly the picture that this suits him perfectly. His personality is one of obsession for victory, and he proves to be willing to subject himself to any task to attain these goals. There was no clear missing link, as I saw it, needed to explain how he got to that point, aside from the when and how of his immortality. You can essentially draw a straight line from the Caliborn we see to the English we get. Therefore, when we learn extra personalities were added onto his own, I can only assume the part they played was nominal, as they were superfluous to his mental state. That's how I see it anyway. As for his visit to Hussie, it looks like he was accomplishing a number of things in one fell swoop there. Remember that the mansion English owned had a vault specifically designed for Slick to enter, which he inevitably did. Slick would, equally as inevitably, find his way to Andrew's strange complex, and find for him more puzzle pieces left behind by his invisible nemesis. One can only assume leaving Ms. Paint alive had as much to do with this as simply not caring to exert unnecessary force.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Aug 31, 2017 23:40:51 GMT
I've said it before but I'm hesitant to say we know anything of LE's personality based on Caliborn, considering Scratch. Scratch is made up of all the same soul components as LE but....it's hard to see a lot of Caliborn in there. For all we know, LE is just as different personality wise, if he even has a personality.
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Post by Gab on Sept 22, 2017 3:53:29 GMT
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Post by obsidalicious on Sept 23, 2017 3:19:26 GMT
This tells me that if a new forum is ever coming at all, it won't be soon since it's just be annoying for them if they had to update the page mere days after putting it up. Unless this site has been up for ages and we've only just noticed.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Sept 25, 2017 17:13:47 GMT
This tells me that if a new forum is ever coming at all, it won't be soon since it's just be annoying for them if they had to update the page mere days after putting it up. Unless this site has been up for ages and we've only just noticed. For what it's worth, it's not exactly hard to add a new link to a webpage.
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Post by obsidalicious on Sept 25, 2017 22:00:24 GMT
This tells me that if a new forum is ever coming at all, it won't be soon since it's just be annoying for them if they had to update the page mere days after putting it up. Unless this site has been up for ages and we've only just noticed. For what it's worth, it's not exactly hard to add a new link to a webpage. True. Incidentally, another thing that's not exactly hard to do is tweet "Hey, the forums are down, just hold tight we're working on bringing them back" but, well...
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Post by Gab on Sept 26, 2017 14:41:55 GMT
It occurs to me, with Andrew saying he wanted the epilogue of Homestuck to "exist outside the confines of the web story", is another hefty piece of evidence for the whole "escape the narrative" angle on the ending.
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Post by melonlord on Sept 27, 2017 15:59:40 GMT
It occurs to me, with Andrew saying he wanted the epilogue of Homestuck to "exist outside the confines of the web story", is another hefty piece of evidence for the whole "escape the narrative" angle on the ending. I felt the Credits pretty well quashed that notion, though I guess there's really no telling what Hussie has in mind with this.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Sept 27, 2017 17:40:21 GMT
It occurs to me, with Andrew saying he wanted the epilogue of Homestuck to "exist outside the confines of the web story", is another hefty piece of evidence for the whole "escape the narrative" angle on the ending. I felt the Credits pretty well quashed that notion, though I guess there's really no telling what Hussie has in mind with this. *tilts head* But wasn't that what the snapchats did, already? Took the story out of the confines of a webcomic? You could argue Hiveswap's doing that too. Though I suppose it's arguable to what extent either has managed to do so.
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Post by obsidalicious on Sept 27, 2017 20:56:31 GMT
I thought the core idea of the 'Escape' theory was to escape the Narrative in general: To stop being forced along by the whims of the author and to defy the tropes that were shaping their behaviours. Changing the story from one medium to another doesn't fulfill that idea, because it's still a story.
The only way to properly implement the 'Escape the narrative' idea is to show the characters being explicitly aware of the narrative around them, and have the story end on their successful escape, and never revisit them in a story again.
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Post by Gab on Sept 28, 2017 21:41:51 GMT
I think it's pretty arguable that that isn't the case.
Consider that not only has the story continued in a medium introduced outside MSPA, but it did so at the behest of the main characters. No longer are they playing along to the whims of Sburb, or Doc Scratch, or Caliborn, or anybody. The narrative is very much in the hands of our heroes. Pretty literally, as they post updates on their lives to snapchat with their phones.
I know that's kind of a different subject than the literal medium on which the story is told, and most of the plot-relevant snapchat stuff is in fact still on MSPA (or embedded there from youtube). And it wouldn't surprise me if the Epilogue won't be made available on MSPA too in some form! But I think it adds a metatextual nature that these additions, these final bows on the plot are introduced off-site before being integrated into it. Like even Andrew Hussie himself and the website that created them can no longer fully contain or control John and friends, they control it.
And part of that is that I'm not suggesting this is going to be a new chapter to the epic. The story is still by and large concluded. Epilogues are pretty traditionally considered to occur after the end of the resolution of the plot, after all! If, as some theorize, the Epilogue will be more plot focused than that name would suggest, such as it maintains or reintroduces some conflict, that would be another piece of evidence to consider in all this, and I would be inclined to change my mind about how fitting it is as far as escaping the narrative. But we'll just have to see how that goes!
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Post by obsidalicious on Sept 29, 2017 5:27:16 GMT
Consider that not only has the story continued in a medium introduced outside MSPA, but it did so at the behest of the main characters. No longer are they playing along to the whims of Sburb, or Doc Scratch, or Caliborn, or anybody. The narrative is very much in the hands of our heroes. Pretty literally, as they post updates on their lives to snapchat with their phones. I would argue that they still are though. Not only is Lord English not yet defeated, but the main cast are still temporally obliged to go and fight Caliborn. There's also no evidence that Sburb is out of the picture, since they went to so much effort to make their universe properly instead of half-assing it, I can only assume that this Frog is reproductively healthy i.e. has a functioning Sburb system and that meteors are going to start coming down any day now. Which also reminds me that we know Earth is going to suffer some kind of apocalypse/extinction event as it's a barren wasteland by Caliborn's time. So sure, the particular events of the snapchat's might be in the hands of the main cast, but in terms of the larger picture, I think that just makes it like the light-hearted filler episode that often take place right before the serious shit starts going down.
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Post by keybounce on Oct 5, 2017 23:25:16 GMT
I haven't watched the snapchat, but I did see the end credits on MSPA.
The quick summary: The 8 kids are happy on earth C, get a message from Caliborn, and have to go fight him.
We saw that fight in act 6. Caliborn uses a Juju, grabs the 4 B1 kids. The 4 B2 kids, using a hope-splosion and nasty sword play, manage to ... well, "defeat" isn't the right word. Imprison Caliborn inside an empty LilCal. ... Little Cal, now holds Caliborn.
What happens next? Well, an earlier version of Caliborn had a chance to see this, put on a play version of it, show us the play, and continue on. When it finally came to the fight, even though he knew what was going to happen, it still managed to surprise him enough.
So, the 4 B1 kids are trapped in a Juju. Which Juju? The one that we see in Collide, being used to take out Lord English.
In other words, Earth-C is also C2. C1 was the Cherub session where red-caliope defeated her brother, and could not win; she took ... whats-its-name's offer, and the session was effectively scratched. C2 was the Cherub session where Caliborn defeated Caliope, took over his planets, won his challenge, and then went on to fight, and lose, to the B2 kids.
Eventually, Lil Cal goes from C2 back to B1 (anyone want to trace that path?), where it proceeds to infect Bro over time, and eventually turns into Doc Scratch (anyone want to trace that path?).
So the loop is simple. B1 kids with the help from A2 trolls make an unwinnable session. They scratch it without dying, and with the planets intact. They join the B2 kids, and the trolls from A2 and the ghosts from A1, and defeat LE with the help of trapped B1 kids at the final battle. After defeating LE, they "retire" to a new universe, until Caliborn challenges them, and the 4 B1 kids get trapped and time cycled.
From Caliborn's perspective, he wipes his sister, takes out the planets, goes after the 4 B2 kids, and fails. He then recovers inside B1/B2, takes over the "in-between" space of Hussie, goes after his sister and the others in the deepest ring, and fights a final battle, and loses.
There are no left over loose ends, except for what happens to the B2 kids after fighting Caliborn, and will anyone ever find Vriska and the B1 kids after the LE battle
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Oct 6, 2017 1:58:51 GMT
I haven't watched the snapchat, but I did see the end credits on MSPA. The quick summary: The 8 kids are happy on earth C, get a message from Caliborn, and have to go fight him. Temporally, yes they do. But so far we've seen no impetus for them to do so. That's a problem. In other words, Earth-C is also C2. C1 was the Cherub session where red-caliope defeated her brother, and could not win; she took ... whats-its-name's offer, and the session was effectively scratched. C2 was the Cherub session where Caliborn defeated Caliope, took over his planets, won his challenge, and then went on to fight, and lose, to the B2 kids. Is this theory saying that the Caliborn in the masterpiece is a different Caliborn from the one that watches it, and that one is pre-scratch and the other is post scratch? And that pre-scratch Caliborn is the one that was predominated by Muse!Calliope? Because while the masterpiece is....less than detailed, you can tell both the one that watches and the one that's in it won the cherub battle by his cheeks. Eventually, Lil Cal goes from C2 back to B1 (anyone want to trace that path?), where it proceeds to infect Bro over time, and eventually turns into Doc Scratch (anyone want to trace that path?). We don't need to trace it. Li'l Cal winds up in B1 because he's on the meteor with Dirk. So the loop is simple. B1 kids with the help from A2 trolls make an unwinnable session. They scratch it without dying, and with the planets intact. They join the B2 kids, and the trolls from A2 and the ghosts from A1, and defeat LE with the help of trapped B1 kids at the final battle. After defeating LE, they "retire" to a new universe, until Caliborn challenges them, and the 4 B1 kids get trapped and time cycled. Time cycled? From Caliborn's perspective, he wipes his sister, takes out the planets, goes after the 4 B2 kids, and fails. He then recovers inside B1/B2, takes over the "in-between" space of Hussie, goes after his sister and the others in the deepest ring, and fights a final battle, and loses. Lord English never shows up in B1/B2 himself. Hence having to employ Condy as his agent. There are no left over loose ends, except for what happens to the B2 kids after fighting Caliborn, and will anyone ever find Vriska and the B1 kids after the LE battle. Actually there are a lot more loose ends than that, but I would say those are probably the most significant ones. Or some of the most significant ones, at least.
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Post by well hello there on Oct 6, 2017 9:44:07 GMT
My (rather hopeful) theory is that the Epilogue will cover all loose plot ends without creating any new ones. In Collide, we got to see The Ultimate Boss Battle while seeing Caliborn's rise to power, and maybe the Epilogue will be like that, but with more scenes simultaneously happening. Homestuck has always been a story where the narrative often skips ahead of time and comes back, moving in between scenes, and the Epilogue could be just like that. We might get to see what actually got the kids to fight Caliborn, and whether Terepy's girl VASKA comes back from the war. Of course, all of this is EXTREMELY hopeful. Knowing what has happened before, the Epilogue will probably just leave us confused and dissatisfied. But if you believe hard enough, it becomes slightly less fake, right?
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Post by Gab on Oct 6, 2017 15:21:47 GMT
My (rather hopeful) theory is that the Epilogue will cover all loose plot ends without creating any new ones. As a hypothetical question, how bad would it really be if that wasn't the case? This basic argument has already been done ad nauseam, and I don't really want to get into the whole thing again. But consider this: If the story decides to wrap up everything, close off all loose ends, we have a complete story. On the other hand, if the story ends with unresolved plot threads, we have something that people will still be talking about. The potential fandom that plays Hiveswap and comes to Homestuck, or is brought in by Viz and the new books, can catch up and still be involved in the discussion. Not that, in all honesty, I expect the epilogue to actually introduce new plot threads, though nor do I especially expect it to resolve much that hasn't been by now. And I'm not really inclined to judge it if it goes one way or the other that I don't expect. The bottom line is there is the potential for a significant number of new fans to come by close to the same time this Epilogue drops, and nothing spurs conversation better than not knowing all the answers upfront. 'sall I'm sayin'. In other words, Earth-C is also C2. C1 was the Cherub session where red-caliope defeated her brother, and could not win; she took ... whats-its-name's offer, and the session was effectively scratched. C2 was the Cherub session where Caliborn defeated Caliope, took over his planets, won his challenge, and then went on to fight, and lose, to the B2 kids. Huh. This is sort of an interesting angle to consider. On the one hand, I'm pretty sure it's not literally a Scratch. Calliope almost certainly never instigates such a thing. In fact, it's unlikely she even had a Skaia to deposit a scratch mechanism to. This is also how doomed timelines work. This is in essence the "original" timeline that needs to be corrected via time travel, like with John getting killed by his denizen. On the other hand, it seems as though Calliope has lived a significantly different life for what could potentially be years before finally getting killed. We also don't know for sure what actually changed to alter the timeline, though one can assume it was pretty much Gamzee. Not that it's especially relevant. I don't even use C1 or C2, I just say Earth C typically. But I wonder whether it would count as C2. And what C1 might have been like in alt Calliopes timeline.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 6, 2017 15:56:17 GMT
I feel like Earth C is simply in Universe C, no worrying about C1 or C2. Remember that a scratch splits the timeline, but before the timeline is split, everything is the same. Whether split by a scratch, something specific to a dead session, or some other reason entirely, it's likely that split is far after Earth C has beed destroyed and left in the shape that the cherubs grew up with it in, thus, both C1 and C2 split off from the same Earth C we see all the main characters in.
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Post by keybounce on Oct 6, 2017 17:15:25 GMT
I haven't watched the snapchat, but I did see the end credits on MSPA. The quick summary: The 8 kids are happy on earth C, get a message from Caliborn, and have to go fight him. Temporally, yes they do. But so far we've seen no impetus for them to do so. That's a problem. You mean, a reason for them to go fight him? Because he's been nothing but trouble, and now they can take him out. A "kill the villain" mission. Should be simple -- he's low level, they're experienced Gods, they aren't expecting a massive wipeout special. Same one is watching. The one telling the story, and watching the event, even says that he saw the future and was telling us about it. Red-Caliope (well, her text is red) basically killed her brother, found an unwinnable session, and took the offer to sacrifice everything to save people in the future. From there, you have a new session, with Caliborn winning, and Grey-Caliope (well, her text is grey) then dies, and is restored from a ghost. But how did it go from the battle on earth C with caliborn to the meteor to travel with Dirk? Picked up in C2, stuffed into a Juju, said Juju was seen in B2 giving John the power of Retcon, and later used in Collide. But this is still well in the past of the events of C2 that led to them being trapped while fighting Caliborn. i.e. -- they have gone through a time loop, and are now back in their past. Hmm. Ok, my memory was that he shows up in cascade as A2/B1 are destroyed. I'll get to that point in the re-read soon enough :-) What are other loose ends?
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 6, 2017 17:59:26 GMT
But how did it go from the battle on earth C with caliborn to the meteor to travel with Dirk? What we know about Lil' Cal's timeline: - Lil' Cal is sent on the meteor with B2 Dirk. When the scratch splits the timeline, the current juju goes to B1, whereas in B2 it is created from itself.
- Dirk tosses it into the ocean
- Caliborn finds it and holds onto it.
- The masterpiece happens and it obtains the souls of Caliborn and Arquiusprite an half of Gamzee.
- The alpha kids seal it away into the void.
- Gamzee uses his chucklevoodoo to summon it into Dave's deam room, where it torments him.
- Rose throws it out, but Bro's rocketboard catches it and brings it to the ectobiology lab.
- It gets sent out on the meteor with Dirk. In B2 it goes to step one and is created as a copy of itself, but it remains in its current state in B1
- Dave's Bro grow up with it in Dave and Bro's Strife it gets destroyed.
- In a doomed timeline it gets prototyped, but this version ceases to exist with the timeline.
- Bro stiches it back together and uses it in his fight with Jack.
- Jack hanges onto it and when fighting the Aradiabots, throws it at one.
- This Aradiabot goes back to the reckoning and gets hit by a meteor that gets sent through a defence portal and crashes into Alternia.
- Before dying Aradia recovers it, once again torn apart, from the impact.
- It ends up in Kanaya's hands, and she stiches it back together.
- It is used in the creation of Doc Scratch.
- Gamzee finds it on the meteor around the time of his rampage.
- Gamzee holds onto it until he delivers it to B2 Jack, turning him into Union Jack and seemingly getting exploded in the process.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Oct 6, 2017 18:07:52 GMT
To keybounce: Temporally, yes they do. But so far we've seen no impetus for them to do so. That's a problem. You mean, a reason for them to go fight him? Because he's been nothing but trouble, and now they can take him out. A "kill the villain" mission. Should be simple -- he's low level, they're experienced Gods, they aren't expecting a massive wipeout special. Which is why John.....totally ignores all of Caliborn's messages to him and the kids just keep on living their lives and not caring about him. The credits and the snapchats show the kids not giving a shit about Caliborn and/or Lord English, and just....doing their own things. So it's safe to say he's not a priority to them. In order for them to want to confront him, something's got to make them think differently. So far nothing has. Same one is watching. The one telling the story, and watching the event, even says that he saw the future and was telling us about it. Red-Caliope (well, her text is red) basically killed her brother, found an unwinnable session, and took the offer to sacrifice everything to save people in the future. From there, you have a new session, with Caliborn winning, and Grey-Caliope (well, her text is grey) then dies, and is restored from a ghost. There is literally no evidence for this. And there's no reason for this. Muse!Calliope being from C1 and our Cherubs being from C2 doesn't add anything to the story that you couldn't get from her just being from a doomed time line. It'd be another matter if she was post-scratch, because that would pose some questions, but her being pre-scratch gives us nothing. But how did it go from the battle on earth C with caliborn to the meteor to travel with Dirk? This was in the comic. It popped into Dave's dream room (thank you Gamzee) and then found its way to baby Dirk and was sent with him and the meteor to earth. Hmm. Ok, my memory was that he shows up in cascade as A2/B1 are destroyed. I'll get to that point in the re-read soon enough :-) A2, never B1 or B2. What are other loose ends? The most glaring one is the other retcon Johns. They have all the power John has and are presumably still out there doing stuff. We don't know what happened to Game Over Terezi and dead Vriska after they met. We still didn't see the Alphas put the Zilly weapons in the temple time capsule. We don't know what happened to the sprites after Act 7. We don't know what happened to Vriska or Gamzee after Act 7. We don't know what the deal with the Black Hole is; is it dangerous? Has it prevented the birth of future First Guardians? Why did Muse!Calliope make it? We also don't know why Earth is dead and abandoned during the Cherubs' time on it. We don't know why the kids didn't bring the trolls to their fight with Caliborn. We don't know why they decided to fight him in the first place. What happened to Lord English? Was he defeated by the Juju or not? No one but Jade, John, and Roxy completed their planet's quest. We don't know whether the kids who fight Caliborn in the masterpiece are the kids in the credits and snapchats. We don't know whether the Caliborn in the masterpiece and the Caliborn watching it are the same. (Masterpiece Caliborn is surprised to see the kids when he shouldn't be.) We don't know what happened to the Betas after they were sucked into the Juju or if they can ever escape. And there might be more I'm forgetting. Guys, A1/A2, B1/B2, and C1/C2 is how we've distinguished pre-scratch from post-scratch for....years. If you don't think a scratch occurred in the Cherubs' session, then there is no C2. And whether or not you think the Cherubs' session was scratched, neither our Caliborn nor masterpiece Caliborn can be the Muse's brother because they both have filled-in red cheeks. Calliope almost certainly never instigates such a thing. In fact, it's unlikely she even had a Skaia to deposit a scratch mechanism to. Well, there's no way to know if the Muse killed her brother before they entered, the way Caliborn killed Calliope. If she waited until after, there would be no Dead Session and she'd still have a Skaia. My (rather hopeful) theory is that the Epilogue will cover all loose plot ends without creating any new ones. As a hypothetical question, how bad would it really be if that wasn't the case? This basic argument has already been done ad nauseam, and I don't really want to get into the whole thing again. But consider this: If the story decides to wrap up everything, close off all loose ends, we have a complete story. On the other hand, if the story ends with unresolved plot threads, we have something that people will still be talking about. The potential fandom that plays Hiveswap and comes to Homestuck, or is brought in by Viz and the new books, can catch up and still be involved in the discussion. That's going to be the case no matter how the comic ends, so there's no reason not to tie up loose ends the way he's been doing since he started this comic. The only difference will be what people talk about. For instance, if the Epilogue or something else answers every question, people will argue if the fake out in Act 7 was worth it, whether or not the way everything was answered was satisfactory, whether or not they wanted an Epilogue at all, etc. Not to mention folks will still be arguing about stuff from the comic as a whole, like whether Act 6 is too slow, whether this or that character was given enough time and development, shipping, stuff about Vriska....trust me, however the Epilogue turns out people will still have things to talk about. It's actually really funny to think about because....well, let's say Hiveswap and Hauntswitch bring a bunch of new fans to Homestuck. Let's also say that the Epilogue comes out after all the Acts of HS and HS have been released. Let's also say that it ties everything up. This would mean that the newcomers won't have to suffer like we did. Not only will they not have to deal with all the hiatuses, they will be able to read the comic with the proper ending right off the bat, without having to wait more than a year for it, or have to suffer through the arguments, debates, and angst about whether the Act 7 ending was the real ending or was good enough or not. And as a business strategy, it's brilliant. Because we're the loyal fans who've invested so much time into this thing that we'll stick around even after an ending that may have been incomplete on purpose for the games and for an Epilogue that may explain everything. Newcomers who can read everything at once and won't be spending years getting invested? Not so much. So we get something that won't chase us away while they get something different that won't chase them away. It's kind of hilarious. And dastardly, in a way I can't help but ruefully admire.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 6, 2017 18:20:09 GMT
The most glaring one is the other retcon Johns. They have all the power John has and are presumably still out there doing stuff. Er, what other retcon Johns?
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Oct 6, 2017 19:32:42 GMT
The most glaring one is the other retcon Johns. They have all the power John has and are presumably still out there doing stuff. Er, what other retcon Johns? When....I'll call him Prime!RetconJohn......When Prime!RetconJohn went back to meet Terezi after confronting Typheus, he sort of created another retcon john. We don't know what happened to him; whether he went to see Typheus and had the same things happen to him or if he did something else. When Prime!RetconJohn stole the ring from that one time line, he sort of created another time line (one where Aranea can't steal the ring, come back to life and cause Game Over) with another retcon John in it. So unless the first other retcon John just completed a loop like Prime!RetconJohn did when he told himself to go see Roxy, we have at least two that are unaccounted for. This is one of the reasons we can't be sure the kids confronting Caliborn are the ones we've been following since the retcon.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 6, 2017 19:58:09 GMT
Er, what other retcon Johns? When....I'll call him Prime!RetconJohn......When Prime!RetconJohn went back to meet Terezi after confronting Typheus, he sort of created another retcon john. We don't know what happened to him; whether he went to see Typheus and had the same things happen to him or if he did something else. When Prime!RetconJohn stole the ring from that one time line, he sort of created another time line (one where Aranea can't steal the ring, come back to life and cause Game Over) with another retcon John in it. When John did the major timeline changing, he replaced the old timelines with the new post-retcon one. Any John from any intermediary state will have been erased from existance. And the duplicate John he did ultimately create we know exploded with his planet.
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