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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 22:27:27 GMT
I can't help but notice though... there's kind of a sequel hook here. I mean, Terezi went out to the Furthest Ring to find Vriska, and we all know how ambiguous that situation was left. Could there someday be some kind of sequel that focuses on what happens over there? And same thing with what happens to John and his friends after their 20th birthday, after they probably go fight Caliborn. What's next for them? The Masterpiece, of course. The real question is, what happens when they finally get out of the House Juju to confront Lord English... which is the same place and time where Vriska is, and where Terezi is trying to go. This is the final missing piece, and I really hope it isn't going to stay missing; see my post above about how now "they escaped the narrative and their fate is open" is not a valid solution anymore: the story has come full circle, and now a true ending is needed.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 25, 2016 22:46:39 GMT
They tell us the black hole is destroying the same reality in which the new universe exists, so it will be affected (sooner or later); they are not safe. But we have no reason to assume it's going to suck in the entirety of reality. I'm personally of the belief that it will pull in the area encapsulated by the circle LE made and nothing more.
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 25, 2016 22:50:30 GMT
Actually, it really wasn't that popular. Just look at the sig flags. I barely ever saw the "Meta Escape" theory. The fact that we knew an epilogue was coming the whole time kind of debunked that theory from the get go. What do you mean by 'same reality'? As in, in the Universe, in the Frog? Because that wasn't established at all. Or do you mean that we now know that the Universe C Frog is still in Paradox Space and isn't safe from its destruction(if that is even what's happening), because we also already knew that, or at least had no reason to think that wasn't the case. IF the "they escaped the story and left LE stuck inside while they are not 'homestuck' anymore" theory was true, they would have been safe; instead, they are not. Also, the door on the victory platform actually sent them to the new universe they created, instead of somewhere else (outside canonspace, or through the House Juju directly to Lord English, or ...). Maybe this was obvious to you all along, but for several people it definitely wasn't. Act 7 showed us them living the good life on a rejuvenated Earth. There were indeed people who believed that was a deception of some kind, but the default, uncomplicated interpretation of that is very much what the credits just showed us.
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cookiefonster
Dead
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Post by cookiefonster on Oct 25, 2016 22:51:34 GMT
Is it OK that I'm mostly concerned with the credits' ambiguous handling of Roxy's romantic fate with John? Seriously it's kind of a thing left hanging.
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 25, 2016 22:53:42 GMT
Can someone with the snapchat tell me: Is it still pumping out all the images seen in the credits one by one, or did Hussie release just the first few as a teaser and hasn't released any since?
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 22:59:47 GMT
Can someone with the snapchat tell me: Is it still pumping out all the images seen in the credits one by one, or did Hussie release just the first few as a teaser and hasn't released any since? It stopped at the first image of the four kids in the ectobiology lab, with John smiling in foreground.
Looks like it was only a teaser for the actual update, which was published roughly at the same time.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 23:03:34 GMT
Is it OK that I'm mostly concerned with the credits' ambiguous handling of Roxy's romantic fate with John? Seriously it's kind of a thing left hanging. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's not as important as what happened when the heroes exited the House Juju to face Lord English... but yes, it's quite annoying, given how much emphasis was placed on their relationship.
(I'm totally a non shipper... but why develop character interactions only for them to suddenly disappear?!?)
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 23:09:20 GMT
They tell us the black hole is destroying the same reality in which the new universe exists, so it will be affected (sooner or later); they are not safe. But we have no reason to assume it's going to suck in the entirety of reality. I'm personally of the belief that it will pull in the area encapsulated by the circle LE made and nothing more. John doesn't know this, and he also know Terezi (and Vriska, Aradia, Sollux and the ghost army) are there and are in danger.
Also, we don't know where exactly the B2 session (and the Genesis Frog at its center) is located; it could very well be inside the area... or it could very well be that "being inside an area" doesn't have any definite meaning when talking about Paradox Space's nonlinear spacetime.
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Post by melonlord on Oct 25, 2016 23:13:19 GMT
They tell us the black hole is destroying the same reality in which the new universe exists, so it will be affected (sooner or later); they are not safe. But we have no reason to assume it's going to suck in the entirety of reality. I'm personally of the belief that it will pull in the area encapsulated by the circle LE made and nothing more. We can see it expanding beyond that circle in act 7 though, and continuing to pull in material from the edges. That implies continued growth, and that could threaten their universe.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 23:16:59 GMT
Act 7 showed us them living the good life on a rejuvenated Earth. It also showed how that was only a vision and they still had to actually cross the door on the victory platform. There were good reason to assume not everything was as it seemed. The important thing is, now there is no more ambiguity on this point: they went into the new universe, lived there for a while (including a 5000-years time jump), and then discovered things were still going to hell outside their universe, due to a rampaging black hole, a probably-not-yet-defeated invincible time daemon and his younger self which kept harassing them on messaging applications; which prompted them to go to fight him, with the astonishingly bad results the Masterpiece documented.
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Post by Gab on Oct 25, 2016 23:17:33 GMT
So, of course, I had to hop on and talk about it here, just like old times. Speaking of which, I'm so happy to see a lot of people that I still know around: Blaperile, PlainWonder, cookiefonster, The One Guy, obsidalicious, banditAffiliate, mementovivere and all the other people: you probably don't remember me, but I remember you! It's just like coming home. I'm legitimately so happy I think I'm going to cry. Actually I found your avatar extremely familiar. I was surprised to see your low post count. I guess I do remember you in some way :B Can someone with the snapchat tell me: Is it still pumping out all the images seen in the credits one by one, or did Hussie release just the first few as a teaser and hasn't released any since? I'm sort of embarrassed I only noticed the pattern with the snapchats in retrospect. It was one every hour on the hour, totalling eleven images, and ending at 11 oclock eastern time. The next hour, at midnight 10/25, is when the flash was uploaded. And speaking of that convention, undyingUmbrage's name was the eleventh to appear at the top of John's friends list in that snap. Naturally But yeah, nothing else has been posted since then. I wonder if it will be used for anything else, or if this was it. Not that I'll particularly mind either way.
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cookiefonster
Dead
TAKE US THEIR FRESH JIMMY
Posts: 723
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by cookiefonster on Oct 25, 2016 23:19:29 GMT
Is it OK that I'm mostly concerned with the credits' ambiguous handling of Roxy's romantic fate with John? Seriously it's kind of a thing left hanging. In the grand scheme of things maybe it's not as important as what happened when the heroes exited the House Juju to face Lord English... but yes, it's quite annoying, given how much emphasis was placed on their relationship.
(I'm totally a non shipper... but why develop character interactions only for them to suddenly disappear?!?)
I'm not that much into shipping either but this pairing is basically pretty much on the level of a plot point regarding things that should be addressed.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 25, 2016 23:35:36 GMT
You know, they skipped ahead 5,000, and it just occurred to me the implications of that. That's like almost as long as written history and they already had a head start technology-wise. Why are they still using newspapers and cell phones with Snapchat? Why are the kingdoms so neatly divided and peaceful? Why do they still remember their creators? But we have no reason to assume it's going to suck in the entirety of reality. I'm personally of the belief that it will pull in the area encapsulated by the circle LE made and nothing more. John doesn't know this, and he also know Terezi (and Vriska, Aradia, Sollux and the ghost army) are there and are in danger. And so he thinks killing young Caliborn will stop it? I mean surely he realizes that changing the past to such a great extent would also undo everything they accomplished, right? All that means is that it's possible that it will consume Universe C, not that it's necessarily true, or even likely. But we have no reason to assume it's going to suck in the entirety of reality. I'm personally of the belief that it will pull in the area encapsulated by the circle LE made and nothing more. We can see it expanding beyond that circle in act 7 though, and continuing to pull in material from the edges. That implies continued growth, and that could threaten their universe. Well, I just looked over Act 7 and it depends on how you interpret the visuals there. In any case, even if I'm wrong and it doesn't stop at that boundary, it doesn't mean it will never stop; eventually it will likely reach a point where the gravitational pull is not strong enough to pull in stuff from such a great distance. So, of course, I had to hop on and talk about it here, just like old times. Speaking of which, I'm so happy to see a lot of people that I still know around: Blaperile, PlainWonder, cookiefonster, The One Guy, obsidalicious, banditAffiliate, mementovivere and all the other people: you probably don't remember me, but I remember you! It's just like coming home. I'm legitimately so happy I think I'm going to cry. Actually I found your avatar extremely familiar. I was surprised to see your low post count. I guess I do remember you in some way :B Ha! I too recognized you by avatar, ShadowsSun!
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 25, 2016 23:48:05 GMT
Act 7 showed us them living the good life on a rejuvenated Earth. It also showed how that was only a vision and they still had to actually cross the door on the victory platform. There were good reason to assume not everything was as it seemed. The important thing is, now there is no more ambiguity on this point: they went into the new universe, lived there for a while (including a 5000-years time jump), and then discovered things were still going to hell outside their universe, due to a rampaging black hole, a probably-not-yet-defeated invincible time daemon and his younger self which kept harassing them on messaging applications; which prompted them to go to fight him, with the astonishingly bad results the Masterpiece documented. It was not definitive that what we saw was just a vision. Some believed it to be so, but many others looked at the Time symbols bookending the scene and logically concluded that it was just a fast forward into the future. You know, they skipped ahead 5,000, and it just occurred to me the implications of that. That's like almost as long as written history and they already had a head start technology-wise. Why are they still using newspapers and cell phones with Snapchat? Why are the kingdoms so neatly divided and peaceful? Why do they still remember their creators? Maybe the 8 races, when left to their own devices, don't actually get along with each other that well, and a series of major conflicts kept retarding/regressing their technological advancement. It would explain why the kingdoms are segregated. Maybe it wasn't the Creators' idea, but when they got there they were already set up and too many old grievances to assimilate and merge them.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Oct 25, 2016 23:57:27 GMT
And so he thinks killing young Caliborn will stop it? When John first confronted Caliborn, he immediately sensed that guy was responsible for everything bad that happened, although he even explicitly said he didn't know why he thought so; nevertheless, he has this strong feeling that Caliborn is the source of all troubles, so going to fight him must seem the logical conclusion. Also, Caliborn called John again precisely to provoke him, because of course he already knows John and his friends are destined to come to fight him, and turn him into Lord English as the result. Uhm, no, not at all. John never fully grasped the implications and consequences of his retcon powers; even when following Terezi's instructions, he for the most past didn't understand at all what he was changing or why.
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Post by heirloomairloom on Oct 26, 2016 0:01:45 GMT
Does anybody else think that Terezi may have gone missing/died on John's 18th birthday and he's not handling it well?
On his 18th, John seems fine and everyone is hanging out with him, but the next year we see he never bothered to take down the party banner from that day and he only has company because Jade basically invites herself over. On his 20th birthday he's alone and brooding over memories of his dad, someone else who had died on his birthday. It's also during that party that Terezi was taking pictures of the black hole and talking to John about it. She (or at least her phone) could have fallen in.
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 26, 2016 0:17:28 GMT
Does anybody else think that Terezi may have gone missing/died on John's 18th birthday and he's not handling it well? On his 18th, John seems fine and everyone is hanging out with him, but the next year we see he never bothered to take down the party banner from that day and he only has company because Jade basically invites herself over. On his 20th birthday he's alone and brooding over memories of his dad, someone else who had died on his birthday. It's also during that party that Terezi was taking pictures of the black hole and talking to John about it. She (or at least her phone) could have fallen in. There's definitely something going with John, based on the Birthday banner alone. If Terezi is missing, presumed dead, if they'd finally actually lost someone to Lord English, that might also explain why the other humans were willing to join John on the Caliborn Raid.
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Post by mariofighter3 on Oct 26, 2016 0:19:03 GMT
Does anybody else think that Terezi may have gone missing/died on John's 18th birthday and he's not handling it well? On his 18th, John seems fine and everyone is hanging out with him, but the next year we see he never bothered to take down the party banner from that day and he only has company because Jade basically invites herself over. On his 20th birthday he's alone and brooding over memories of his dad, someone else who had died on his birthday. It's also during that party that Terezi was taking pictures of the black hole and talking to John about it. She (or at least her phone) could have fallen in. That's a good theory, but according to the Chat screen of Snapchat on John's phone, Terezi has opened a snap of John's very recently.
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Post by Gab on Oct 26, 2016 0:34:17 GMT
Does anybody else think that Terezi may have gone missing/died on John's 18th birthday and he's not handling it well? On his 18th, John seems fine and everyone is hanging out with him, but the next year we see he never bothered to take down the party banner from that day and he only has company because Jade basically invites herself over. On his 20th birthday he's alone and brooding over memories of his dad, someone else who had died on his birthday. It's also during that party that Terezi was taking pictures of the black hole and talking to John about it. She (or at least her phone) could have fallen in. Not a bad theory, but I think it's a little overdramatic. Kind of as overdramatic as the thought that Terezi "vanished" in Act 7. Making a little too much out of what is or isn't there. Like this stuff about his birthday banner. I don't know why he kept it up, but I certainly don't think it's a sign of anything so heavy. Maybe he's just really lazy? He didn't seem really that sad when he tried to turn down Jade's visit. He seemed contented, like he honestly didn't feel the need to make a big deal out of his birthday. If anything, he might have been afraid of growing up. Reminds me of another snap with him looking at a portrait of his father, with his face reflecting in his father's. I don't know if it goes as far as him running away from responsibility to fight Caliborn, but it may be weighing on him. But considering he chose to live away from his friends, he must have valued his privacy to begin with.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 26, 2016 1:24:27 GMT
Maybe John just, does not go outside much? Or at least rarely on the balcony. The telescope does appear to be gone. Also, he is a young adult on his own for the first time. I know I spent my first two months on my own planning to get to showering later.
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Post by PieTheDerptacular on Oct 26, 2016 3:21:11 GMT
It's a little weird that the last arrow on the page just leads to the beginning of Homestuck. Kinda implies it's an infinite loop, doesn't it? I don't think it actually is, but *shrug*
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 26, 2016 3:32:41 GMT
It's a little weird that the last arrow on the page just leads to the beginning of Homestuck. Kinda implies it's an infinite loop, doesn't it? I don't think it actually is, but *shrug* More interesting, I think, is that it leads back to the actual homepage, not the first page of Homestuck. Perhaps the Epilogue is going to be a new MS Paint Adventure, for some reason?
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Post by RG on Oct 26, 2016 3:44:04 GMT
It's a little weird that the last arrow on the page just leads to the beginning of Homestuck. Kinda implies it's an infinite loop, doesn't it? I don't think it actually is, but *shrug* More interesting, I think, is that it leads back to the actual homepage, not the first page of Homestuck. Perhaps the Epilogue is going to be a new MS Paint Adventure, for some reason? That wouldn't surprise me really. (Also as I didn't say anything on this flash until now, I really like it, especially since it wrapped up some loose ends.)
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Post by Gab on Oct 26, 2016 5:12:25 GMT
Maybe it's a placeholder, and additionally gives viewers an easy way to get back to mspa proper instead of that navigation-less black page. Assuming you don't have autosave on. (cough) although you could also just hit the back button, so shrug.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 26, 2016 5:20:18 GMT
Maybe it's a placeholder, and additionally gives viewers an easy way to get back to mspa proper instead of that navigation-less black page. Assuming you don't have autosave on. (cough) although you could also just hit the back button, so shrug. I think you are probably right.
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