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Post by Gab on Jun 22, 2016 14:52:01 GMT
Uh, you're saying "I don't want him to want to kill me" = "I have feelings for him"? Are you saying, if Gamzee meant that 100% literally and seriously, that he would think he couldn't take Karkat? The fact he seems concerned at all about such a relatively pointless thing (compared to the plans he concocts later) heavily suggests he still values their friendship at least somewhat.
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Post by melonlord on Jun 22, 2016 15:47:53 GMT
I think the fact that The Condesce didn't go all out on them in their fight was because, as we saw before, that would just create a lot of destruction, and she knew she still needed her kingdom. Plus, she probably didn't want to kill Roxy. She wouldn't have known that Roxy had already created the Matriorb, she probably wanted to keep her alive to make it later for her. What would the Condesce need Derse for once she had her new universe? It doesn't seem like she would care, since that base of operation was only ever temporary. Fair enough on Roxy, though I'm not sure why she'd engage them in combat at all if that were the case. She could have fallen back until she could get some kind of foothold in the session and imprison Roxy again. Or, you know, just used her powers to put them to sleep.
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Post by pointycatears on Jun 22, 2016 18:48:06 GMT
Derailing the conversation a bit here, but has anyone else messed around with synching up Act 7 to other songs? I've been experimenting, and playing Creata at around the 0:22 mark of the video actually works fairly well. Gives a completely different tone and implication to the second half of the flash. Wow, it's almost perfect. Maybe the people who wrote the song did it to this. And it makes the ending seem either like "This is what could have happened if everything didn't get destroyed" ending or the "They escaped from the comic itself" ending.
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Post by yggdrasilsyeoman on Jun 22, 2016 21:44:42 GMT
Ehhh, regarding Gamzee, it was always fairly obvious to me that "you're motherfuckin hurting me" was a trap he gleefully planned and hatched to cause maximum pain and confusion to Terezi. Once her guard is down and she starts to apologize, he immediately grins, howls a battle cry, then just plain goes to town on her, using the same mockingly macabre battle style he applied during Murderstuck. He fake-drops her toward the lava, only to pull her into a headlock as he sneers at Karkat. He was fully free from mind control, and he was having fun beating people half to death, as usual.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 23, 2016 0:17:48 GMT
Ehhh, regarding Gamzee, it was always fairly obvious to me that "you're motherfuckin hurting me" was a trap he gleefully planned and hatched to cause maximum pain and confusion to Terezi. Once her guard is down and she starts to apologize, he immediately grins, howls a battle cry, then just plain goes to town on her, using the same mockingly macabre battle style he applied during Murderstuck. He fake-drops her toward the lava, only to pull her into a headlock as he sneers at Karkat. He was fully free from mind control, and he was having fun beating people half to death, as usual. How exactly could he have planned that in advance when he had literally only just gotten control of his own mind back from being Aranea's puppet? I also wouldn't call it the same 'battle style' as Murderstuck. On the meteor Equius and Nepeta were dealt to with cold, ruthless efficiency. In Game Over, he just straight up lost his marbles. And when we consider the mental stress he was under: The long term brain damage from his sopor slime abuse, a highbloods natural mental instability, the physical agony he was no doubt in, whatever side effects of confusion/disorientation that the recent total mind control would leave, the emotional stress from having to choose his religion over his friends etc. I don't know if I could blame him for losing his shit.
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Post by yggdrasilsyeoman on Jun 23, 2016 3:18:23 GMT
How exactly could he have planned that in advance when he had literally only just gotten control of his own mind back from being Aranea's puppet? I also wouldn't call it the same 'battle style' as Murderstuck. On the meteor Equius and Nepeta were dealt to with cold, ruthless efficiency. In Game Over, he just straight up lost his marbles. And when we consider the mental stress he was under: The long term brain damage from his sopor slime abuse, a highbloods natural mental instability, the physical agony he was no doubt in, whatever side effects of confusion/disorientation that the recent total mind control would leave, the emotional stress from having to choose his religion over his friends etc. I don't know if I could blame him for losing his shit. I'm not saying it was a trap on the level of the Tumor creating the Green Sun or anything. Or even a Scourge-Sister-tier subterfuge. I'm saying he snapped out of his trance, realized there was an exploitable situation before him, and exploited the hell of it. It's Gamzee's version of faking a punch then sweeping the legs. He's been manipulating and sparring with Terezi for months; he knows the one thing that would make her drop her guard. I'd also continue to argue that Gamzee wasn't actually feeling any agony in this situation. I actually have a (fairly well-supported) theory that Gamzee, in-universe, only feels pain w hen it would be funnier in the story if he did, since he's essentially an ascended clown-god-fixed-timeline-point representing the supreme force of Capriciousness. This is why we get stuff like THIS page and THIS page, in which things that would wreck a normal person's shit have Gamzee grinning wildly. It's surreal and unnatural for Gamzee to smile through it, so he does. And then you get THIS page and THIS page, which are clearly comedy beats, in which Gamzee's control of the situation is reversed. (This also explains why, when sliced in half by Kanaya, he's half-mirthful, half-sad. It's funny-ish because DAMN that clown got fucked up, but serious because DAMN he just murdered Karkat.) It also appears that you and I have a different definition of "ruthless efficiency." Bec Noir is an artless murder-dispatcher who can litter the Battlefield with corpses in minutes. Gamzee... not quite. He takes the time to lure Nepeta and Equius to his "lair," terrorizes them with atmospheric horror, then goes out of his way to humiliate Equius and strangle him with his own bow. His "style," though not fully unleashed at this point, is about luring his opponent into his clutches, breaking their defenses once they show their weak point, then going bonkers. I dunno... I juuuust have trouble seeing this supposed internal conflict actually reflected in the text. Nothing Gamzee did to Terezi was in self-defense. His foe was sobbing in remorse, her sword having clattered to the ground. How can his actions pre-Game Over stem from a serious emotional dilemma between friends and gods, when he so brazenly dangles one friend over a lava pit, cackling as he dares another friend to "come at me, bro" before effortlessly murdering him as well? However, with all this said, I'll add that I too wanted some kind of closure arcfor Gamzee. I always thought his snap to insanity and dependence on Lil Cal came from the death of his civilization and the loss of his only coping mechanisms (the purity of Juggalism and the slime pies). I wanted his zealotry and nihilism to really face some kind of confrontation, in which he'd finally realize that he was just a pawn of this monster the whole time. (I had this plan that the half of him that got left behind in the Masterpiece would get sewn together with the sad half from Game Over, and they'd both feel some remorse about being shut out of their promised "miracle." But the theory of him being mind-controlled into oblivion throughout the decision-making process really erases his agency and spoils the arc, in my view. But that's just my view! Idk. It's been a while since I talked Homestuck.... I can't believe I still feel so whack about the ending.
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
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Post by thecrystalship on Jun 23, 2016 4:23:41 GMT
Something clearly happened to Gamzee as a result of suddenly being freed from Aranea's control, but then he quickly snapped back to Rage mode and the rest is history.
We will probably get closure for him later.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 23, 2016 4:38:50 GMT
I'm not saying it was a trap on the level of the Tumor creating the Green Sun or anything. Or even a Scourge-Sister-tier subterfuge. I'm saying he snapped out of his trance, realized there was an exploitable situation before him, and exploited the hell of it. It's Gamzee's version of faking a punch then sweeping the legs. He's been manipulating and sparring with Terezi for months; he knows the one thing that would make her drop her guard. I'd also continue to argue that Gamzee wasn't actually feeling any agony in this situation. I actually have a (fairly well-supported) theory that Gamzee, in-universe, only feels pain w hen it would be funnier in the story if he did, since he's essentially an ascended clown-god-fixed-timeline-point representing the supreme force of Capriciousness. This is why we get stuff like THIS page and THIS page, in which things that would wreck a normal person's shit have Gamzee grinning wildly. It's surreal and unnatural for Gamzee to smile through it, so he does. And then you get THIS page and THIS page, which are clearly comedy beats, in which Gamzee's control of the situation is reversed. Is this theory well supported? If you're referring to the Hussie Quote, I'd point out that Hussie himself admitted that he's not Omniscient and Gamzee's death in Game Over proves him wrong anyway. Gamzee's survivability can easily be put down to A) His natural Highblood toughness, B) Being the top of his echeladder which we know grants more health C) Quite possibly an effect of being a Hero of Rage and his drug abuse and subsequent brain damage could easily account for the inconsistent sense of pain. Occam's razor would tell us that there's no need to suppose that he must be a mystical force of nature for this stuff to be the case. What I meant was relatively calculated compared to Game Over. There Gamzee had a long term plan and when the actual crux of it went down, he didn't waste any time. Way different to Game Over. If Gamzee was fully in control of his actions there, and was being as schemey as we know he's capable of, would he not have gotten rid of the cane that could've obviously been used against him? He seemed insistent on using his bare hands, as inefficient as they are, so the cane was just a liability to him. Or are you saying he's so Schemey that he knew Karkat would later charge him and that it was appropriate/necessary that he get stabbed instead of dealt to any other way? For the emotional struggle I was talking long-term, Gamzee's whole character. I don't think that Gamzee was always an evil minion of Lord English. During Hivebent, he's clearly legitimate friends with the others. Later in murderstuck, a combination of factors drove him into a murderous rampage which I feel he probably would have regretted to some degree after that. I don't think a single event, even one like that, can just instantly and permanently turn the evil knob up to 11. Then he moped around the meteor, partially guilty about killing and betraying friends, but also feeling partly justified as he did it for his religion, and there he got radicalized by Kurloz and in doing so he had to further distance himself from his friends which on some level would've made him feel sorry. Because it's not that he thought the Trolls were evil shitlords who he shouldn't be friends with, his romantic feelings for Terezi and concern for Karkat's reaction should he find out clearly shows that part of him still cares for them, but he feels he is forced to abandon them for his cause, which would be emotionally stressful to anyone. It reminds me of a discussion on the old forum in which people were coming up with all sorts of Machiavellian schemes that explained why Gamzee prototyped the Trolls, and I had the novel idea that maybe he just missed his friends.
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Post by Blaperile on Jun 23, 2016 9:07:26 GMT
Uh, you're saying "I don't want him to want to kill me" = "I have feelings for him"? I'll try stating it in a different way: at that point he still cares what Karkat thinks of him. By the time the LOFAF showdown takes place, Gamzee doesn't care about that at all anymore. What would the Condesce need Derse for once she had her new universe? It doesn't seem like she would care, since that base of operation was only ever temporary. I didn't really mean Derse specifically, but more that The Condesce wouldn't start throwing planets around and other absolutely crazy stuff like that like in [S] GAME OVER, because then there would be too much mayhem and destruction and important stuff/people could be destroyed/killed in the process.
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Post by Gab on Jun 23, 2016 14:30:45 GMT
Admittedly that's a good point about putting them to sleep though. I think she just wanted to toy around with them at the start of the fight, then when they started doing well she got pissed off. She WAS suckerstabbed in the back while she was distracted. But I'll concede theorizing she was just too careless is a pretty weak argument for a final battle.
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loading
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Post by loading on Jun 23, 2016 14:38:12 GMT
Here's a thought I don't think I've seen thrown around at all: What if on a meta level, the story was supposed to end more conclusively with things like HIC's immortality curse still in play, but didn't because of the damage being done to reality? At this point so close to the end, there's so much damage that reality constants, like the massive plot armor given to nearly every villain, simply no longer applies? I guess this may be the sort of thing that sounded smarter in my head, but I thought it worth sharing.
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Post by legendary on Jun 23, 2016 16:42:15 GMT
Here's a thought I don't think I've seen thrown around at all: What if on a meta level, the story was supposed to end more conclusively with things like HIC's immortality curse still in play, but didn't because of the damage being done to reality? At this point so close to the end, there's so much damage that reality constants, like the massive plot armor given to nearly every villain, simply no longer applies? I guess this may be the sort of thing that sounded smarter in my head, but I thought it worth sharing. That's the sort of thing that would need to be communicated to the readers in some way to be valid and even then it's a massive copout, like all attempts to turn the turd Hussie served up as an ending into anything of literary quality.
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Post by Arashi500 on Jun 23, 2016 16:46:04 GMT
The Condesce's immortality curse being cancelled out by the zilly-immune-sword makes the most sense to me. If they couldn't zilly-ify it during the Trickster alchemization bit, seems to me it could potentially have been the only thing in their arsenal that COULD have permanently downed the Condesce.
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Post by melonlord on Jun 24, 2016 5:50:23 GMT
I didn't really mean Derse specifically, but more that The Condesce wouldn't start throwing planets around and other absolutely crazy stuff like that like in [ S ] GAME OVER, because then there would be too much mayhem and destruction and important stuff/people could be destroyed/killed in the process. Wouldn't she have cared about that during Game Over as well, then? There were still important things that could have been destroyed in her planet fight with Aranea. I suppose she could have been just too pissed off to care, but then why wouldn't she be even MORE pissed off during Collide, now that the kids have liberated her two main pawns and wrecked her carefully laid plans even more than Aranea did? Admittedly that's a good point about putting them to sleep though. I think she just wanted to toy around with them at the start of the fight, then when they started doing well she got pissed off. She WAS suckerstabbed in the back while she was distracted. But I'll concede theorizing she was just too careless is a pretty weak argument for a final battle. Maybe. It's been a while since I've reread Act 6, I don't remember enough about Condy's personality to say for certain. She did snap Aranea's neck personally after Game Over rather than just eyelasering her, so I guess there's an argument to be made for her getting more up-close and physical when she's especially pissed. And coming up against her own heiress working against her might anger her enough for her to make it personal, and open her up for a suckerstab. However, getting angry at Aranea was also what caused her to start throwing planets and using Kanaya-melting eyebeams, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't also use the full extent of her powers when the kids started doing actually well. If she was toying with them (and I'm not convinced that she was, she seemed pretty pissed and not in much of a toying mood), I imagine that'd go out the window once the fraymotifs came out, and she'd start crunching planets, or just go "fuck it, too much work" and put them to sleep.`
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Jun 24, 2016 6:24:35 GMT
However, getting angry at Aranea was also what caused her to start throwing planets and using Kanaya-melting eyebeams, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't also use the full extent of her powers when the kids started doing actually well. If she was toying with them (and I'm not convinced that she was, she seemed pretty pissed and not in much of a toying mood), I imagine that'd go out the window once the fraymotifs came out, and she'd start crunching planets, or just go "fuck it, too much work" and put them to sleep.` I guess you could argue she didn't want to kill them because she still needed them and wasn't taking them seriously to begin with, (She did get taken out by turning her back on Roxy.) while Aranea both seriously pissed her off and caught her by surprise. But that feels like the kind of thing that could've been developed more so we could be sure that was why.
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Post by tentacleTherapist on Jun 24, 2016 8:41:40 GMT
I didn't really mean Derse specifically, but more that The Condesce wouldn't start throwing planets around and other absolutely crazy stuff like that like in [ S ] GAME OVER, because then there would be too much mayhem and destruction and important stuff/people could be destroyed/killed in the process. Wouldn't she have cared about that during Game Over as well, then? There were still important things that could have been destroyed in her planet fight with Aranea. I suppose she could have been just too pissed off to care, but then why wouldn't she be even MORE pissed off during Collide, now that the kids have liberated her two main pawns and wrecked her carefully laid plans even more than Aranea did? Admittedly that's a good point about putting them to sleep though. I think she just wanted to toy around with them at the start of the fight, then when they started doing well she got pissed off. She WAS suckerstabbed in the back while she was distracted. But I'll concede theorizing she was just too careless is a pretty weak argument for a final battle. Maybe. It's been a while since I've reread Act 6, I don't remember enough about Condy's personality to say for certain. She did snap Aranea's neck personally after Game Over rather than just eyelasering her, so I guess there's an argument to be made for her getting more up-close and physical when she's especially pissed. And coming up against her own heiress working against her might anger her enough for her to make it personal, and open her up for a suckerstab. However, getting angry at Aranea was also what caused her to start throwing planets and using Kanaya-melting eyebeams, so I'm not sure why she wouldn't also use the full extent of her powers when the kids started doing actually well. If she was toying with them (and I'm not convinced that she was, she seemed pretty pissed and not in much of a toying mood), I imagine that'd go out the window once the fraymotifs came out, and she'd start crunching planets, or just go "fuck it, too much work" and put them to sleep.` If you want to get meta, villains in video games have their powers toned down when you actually fight them versus when they are shown in cutscenes, which is sort of reflected in the game-like style of Collide versus the movie style of Game Over.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 24, 2016 8:56:19 GMT
If you want to get meta, villains in video games have their powers toned down when you actually fight them versus when they are shown in cutscenes, which is sort of reflected in the game-like style of Collide versus the movie style of Game Over. It's a good point. But in most video games where that happens, it's usually because the Villain was portrayed as more powerful than the Hero so as to set up the challenge/suspense, but toned down later so as to make the game actually possible. But here in Collide, I don't think that's really the case. For as much power as those villains were shown to have, we've seen the heroes display just as much if not more power in one way or another. While the Condesce can throw planets, Jade can too and more. While Bec Noir is nigh invincible, we've seen Jake knock invincible people on their ass before. While the Felt can fuck around with time travel, so can Dave and Rose can pretty much see the future and anticipate their fuckery. etc. etc. But in Collide the Heroes seemed to have been nerfed just as much as the Villains were. As impressive as their maneuvers may have looked, the generic Aspect themed arc/beam/magic attacks they were doing is nowhere near the limits of their power.
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Post by Arashi500 on Jun 24, 2016 9:20:50 GMT
As impressive as their maneuvers may have looked, the generic Aspect themed arc/beam/magic attacks they were doing is nowhere near the limits of their power. Unless the smaller scale reflects a condensing of the power into a more concentrated form. Not that it necessarily does.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 24, 2016 9:41:06 GMT
Unless the smaller scale reflects a condensing of the power into a more concentrated form. Not that it necessarily does. Could be. But Act 5 Rose could shatter portals and levitate entire stone temples. Upgraded to the Quills of Echidna and boosted by God Tier power and Fraymotif power, her beam-laser probably should've looked a little more like this.
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Post by Blaperile on Jun 24, 2016 10:22:29 GMT
Wouldn't she have cared about that during Game Over as well, then? There were still important things that could have been destroyed in her planet fight with Aranea. I suppose she could have been just too pissed off to care, but then why wouldn't she be even MORE pissed off during Collide, now that the kids have liberated her two main pawns and wrecked her carefully laid plans even more than Aranea did? The difference is that by the time The Condesce started throwing around planets, Karkat and Kanaya had already died, Jade's house was destroyed, Jade and Jane were dead, and Skaia was filling up with lava (okay perhaps The Condesce didn't know that, but still). To achieve victory, The Condesce needed Karkat and Kanaya to visit Echidna to free The Genesis Frog, and with their bodies gone that was now impossible. Jade's house needed to be rebuilt all the way up and the Grist Rig would need to be deployed (but a fire was already on its way to destroy what remained of Jade's house). With Jade dead there would be nobody left who could put Earth in its place in the new universe. And with Jane dead, she lost the one she'd scheduled to rule over the new empire. With Skaia filling up with lava it would be basically impossible to let the Genesis Frog settle there. And maybe Jade hadn't even deployed the Battlefield yet? And Roxy was lying there KO on the ground and the Condesce might have thought she was dead as well, preventing a new Matriorb from being created. All of this combined made it impossible for The Condesce's plans to succeed, so I think she just gave up and decided she just needed to stop Aranea at all costs. As for Collide, I think The Condesce realized victory for her still wasn't impossible. She needed Roxy alive, but she didn't need John, Rose or Kanaya anymore (seeing as Kanaya had already visited Echidna) so she could just take them out. Jane and Jade were still alive and The Condesce probably thought she could mindcontrol them again just like she did last time. Skaia was not filled up with lava, no homes were destroyed, and the Grist Rigs had already deployed. All The Condesce still needed for victory was to have Roxy create the Matriorb (though she already had but The Condesce probably didn't know that), destroy the two B1 rings in The Forge, and lock up/kill all remaining threats to her empire. She was really close to her victory, so I assume that's why she was way more careful here. And even in her final moments before she died, she was about to kill John, Rose and Kanaya while leaving Roxy alive. If she had succeeded there, the battle would practically have been won by her, so she had no reason to go all out on them, before Roxy suddenly stabbed her in the back.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 24, 2016 10:33:31 GMT
As for Collide, I think The Condesce realized victory for her still wasn't impossible. She needed Roxy alive, but she didn't need John, Rose or Kanaya anymore (seeing as Kanaya had already visited Echidna) so she could just take them out. Jane and Jade were still alive and The Condesce probably thought she could mindcontrol them again just like she did last time. Skaia was not filled up with lava, no homes were destroyed, and the Grist Rigs had already deployed. All The Condesce still needed for victory was to have Roxy create the Matriorb (though she already had but The Condesce probably didn't know that), destroy the two B1 rings in The Forge, and lock up/kill all remaining threats to her empire. She was really close to her victory, so I assume that's why she was way more careful here. And even in her final moments before she died, she was about to kill John, Rose and Kanaya while leaving Roxy alive. If she had succeeded there, the battle would practically have been won by her, so she had no reason to go all out on them, before Roxy suddenly stabbed her in the back. She was still nowhere near as powerful or efficient as she could've been. Telekinetically pick up Rose, Lazer-Gaze her to ash. Telekinetically pick up Kanaya, Lazer-Gaze her to ash. Telekinetically pick up the healers that arrive, Lazer-Gaze them to Ash. Telekinetically pick up Roxy, bonk her against a hard surface until she loses consciousness. Hold her hostage to keep John at bay. Order DD to take the Dronegorg and fuck up the rest of the crew. Still under the guise of being English's minion, she could probably hold some sway over the Felt, kindly suggest to them that they use their time powers to counteract any shenanigans that John or Dave might try. Realise that Jade is awake again, and that BN/BB are around, and GCATavrosprite is a thing, mind control all of them again. Alchemise some new mind tiaras to pacify if not control everyone still left. Done.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Jun 24, 2016 14:03:54 GMT
That was just Jane's fork falling into the lava, not Skaia itself. From Game Over, I got the impression that the Condesce was throwing planets just because Aranea was. Aranea sent planets flying towards the Condesce, so the Condesce used other planets to smash them out of the way. And she could have mind controlled first guardians to place the new Earth, fought Echidna for the Genesis Frog, and ruled over the new universe herself until she found a new heiress. Even if not, the Condesce's plans have been developing for thousands of years. She doesn't seem like someone who would give up that quickly if there were still possibilities. And like obsidalicious said, it would have been extremely easy for her to deal with the kids without throwing planets or killing anyone necessary to her plans.
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quixoticTokki
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Post by quixoticTokki on Jun 24, 2016 19:25:33 GMT
If you want to get meta, villains in video games have their powers toned down when you actually fight them versus when they are shown in cutscenes, which is sort of reflected in the game-like style of Collide versus the movie style of Game Over. It's a good point. But in most video games where that happens, it's usually because the Villain was portrayed as more powerful than the Hero so as to set up the challenge/suspense, but toned down later so as to make the game actually possible. But here in Collide, I don't think that's really the case. For as much power as those villains were shown to have, we've seen the heroes display just as much if not more power in one way or another. While the Condesce can throw planets, Jade can too and more. While Bec Noir is nigh invincible, we've seen Jake knock invincible people on their ass before. While the Felt can fuck around with time travel, so can Dave and Rose can pretty much see the future and anticipate their fuckery. etc. etc. But in Collide the Heroes seemed to have been nerfed just as much as the Villains were. As impressive as their maneuvers may have looked, the generic Aspect themed arc/beam/magic attacks they were doing is nowhere near the limits of their power. You know with all the things I've thought/said about what the ending lacked, this never actually occurred to me before. The kids have all these super cool powers, and for them to play no real part in the end game is a real miss. I'm sure there's a trope or story telling rule that says if your hero learns/gains some BA power, they have to use it to defeat the Big Bad. And just...yeah. Like why show us Jake's Hope powers, only to never do anything with them ever again? (Not including the Masterpiece.) Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I've only been popping into this thread every now and then, so I have no idea if this has all been said in here already.
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Post by Blaperile on Jun 25, 2016 10:14:52 GMT
She was still nowhere near as powerful or efficient as she could've been. Telekinetically pick up Rose, Lazer-Gaze her to ash. Telekinetically pick up Kanaya, Lazer-Gaze her to ash. Telekinetically pick up the healers that arrive, Lazer-Gaze them to Ash. I guess she could have done that. But if you look back at the results of her fight against B2 Rose and B2 Dave, she could have done the same thing to them but instead just forked Rose and stabbed Dave with his own sword. And B2 Jade was also simply forked as well. It seems to me that The Condesce prefers doing the kill physically instead of with any of her fancy powers. And maybe that isn't too surprising, what with Meenah's obsession with forking people. That was just Jane's fork falling into the lava, not Skaia itself. Eh, many people think it's a miniature Skaia that doesn't actually lead to the real Skaia while also many people think it leads to the actual Skaia, so it's hard to say for sure anyway. And she could have mind controlled first guardians to place the new Earth, fought Echidna for the Genesis Frog, and ruled over the new universe herself until she found a new heiress. Even if not, the Condesce's plans have been developing for thousands of years. She doesn't seem like someone who would give up that quickly if there were still possibilities. Fair enough. Though the question is of course whether LOFAF was still intact enough after Aranea collided LOLAR into it for the Genesis Frog to still be alive, and for any of the three remaining First Guardians (GCat, Bec Noir, PM) to still be alive. If not, her attempt might have been fruitless anyway. Or The Condesce realized she was dealing with a doomed timeline here and said 'screw it'? Like why show us Jake's Hope powers, only to never do anything with them ever again? (Not including the Masterpiece.) Anyway, that's all I wanted to say. I've only been popping into this thread every now and then, so I have no idea if this has all been said in here already. They already featured in two of the final battles (the Game Over battle and the Masterpiece battle). While they didn't feature in the Collide battles, I think 2/3 of the final battles is still good enough.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 25, 2016 10:30:34 GMT
Eh, many people think it's a miniature Skaia that doesn't actually lead to the real Skaia while also many people think it leads to the actual Skaia, so it's hard to say for sure anyway. Jane's fork was almost certainly derived from the King's Scepter, and in Act 5 we saw the scepter lying in a river and no torrential downpour happened as a result. Plus, while SBurb certainly has it's share of stupid things, making the King's Scepters affect the game's centre piece is beyond stupid. If they could affect the Battle field, there would be no need for a reckoning, the Black King would just dunk the scepter into lava as soon as he got it.
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