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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 31, 2016 22:16:50 GMT
Anyway, something just occurred to me, unrelated to the argument I've been having with alleywaycreeper: We've never really cashed out on the Calmasis foreshadowing, have we? The idea is that he continued the chess game past the death of the king. Further on in Calliope and Caliborn's chess match, the same happens, Caliborn carries on past the perceived checkmate. Now that could be a metaphor for Lord English's respawning in general, but that doesn't exactly match. What seems the most fitting point for this to play out is the ending. Not only is it a presumed checkmate (it even goes so far as to not truly show LE's defeat, just how in chess the last move to take the king is never played out), but it's once again a case of Calliope versus Caliborn. But I don't think if Hussie'd end it so ambiguously if he just wanted Lord English to win, not to mention the Calmasis foreshadowing is specifically about the game continuing on after checkmate before the ultimate victory. Because of this, and other small bits and pieces, I'm changing to the psychout party (I'll change my signature as soon as I get the chance, which may be a while given my current circumstances). There's a lot of Cherub based foreshadowing that went unresolved/unaddressed in Homestuck. There's this, there's all that imagery of the snake eating its own tail that never amounted to anything. There's that one speech that Calliope made to Jane that, in hindsight, is wrong on several counts. Some might argue that there should've been more to the revelation that the Cherubs are linked to the Zilly equipment(or just more meaning to Zilly stuff in general). All the no-so-subtle-hints about Caliborn's incestual feelings combined with the clunky exposition we got on the very unusual Cherub mating process surely seemed like that was going to mean something, but nope. It almost seems as if Hussie genuinely did have some other story in mind and that the Retcon truly was an actual retcon, preemptively cancelling the story Hussie had in mind, in favour of the mess we got instead.
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Post by melonlord on Sept 1, 2016 3:36:34 GMT
Anyway, something just occurred to me, unrelated to the argument I've been having with alleywaycreeper: We've never really cashed out on the Calmasis foreshadowing, have we? The idea is that he continued the chess game past the death of the king. Further on in Calliope and Caliborn's chess match, the same happens, Caliborn carries on past the perceived checkmate. Now that could be a metaphor for Lord English's respawning in general, but that doesn't exactly match. What seems the most fitting point for this to play out is the ending. Not only is it a presumed checkmate (it even goes so far as to not truly show LE's defeat, just how in chess the last move to take the king is never played out), but it's once again a case of Calliope versus Caliborn. But I don't think if Hussie'd end it so ambiguously if he just wanted Lord English to win, not to mention the Calmasis foreshadowing is specifically about the game continuing on after checkmate before the ultimate victory. Because of this, and other small bits and pieces, I'm changing to the psychout party (I'll change my signature as soon as I get the chance, which may be a while given my current circumstances). There's a lot of Cherub based foreshadowing that went unresolved/unaddressed in Homestuck. There's this, there's all that imagery of the snake eating its own tail that never amounted to anything. There's that one speech that Calliope made to Jane that, in hindsight, is wrong on several counts. Some might argue that there should've been more to the revelation that the Cherubs are linked to the Zilly equipment(or just more meaning to Zilly stuff in general). All the no-so-subtle-hints about Caliborn's incestual feelings combined with the clunky exposition we got on the very unusual Cherub mating process surely seemed like that was going to mean something, but nope. It almost seems as if Hussie genuinely did have some other story in mind and that the Retcon truly was an actual retcon, preemptively cancelling the story Hussie had in mind, in favour of the mess we got instead. The "call a cherub by their name to put them to sleep" never amounted to anything either, unless like five seconds of emotional trauma for Roxy amounts to "something". And there's Caliborn's very slow, very painful but still existent character development, which I guess never meant anything either.
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Post by Blaperile on Sept 1, 2016 19:52:23 GMT
Anyway, something just occurred to me, unrelated to the argument I've been having with alleywaycreeper: We've never really cashed out on the Calmasis foreshadowing, have we? The idea is that he continued the chess game past the death of the king. Further on in Calliope and Caliborn's chess match, the same happens, Caliborn carries on past the perceived checkmate. Now that could be a metaphor for Lord English's respawning in general, but that doesn't exactly match. What seems the most fitting point for this to play out is the ending. Not only is it a presumed checkmate (it even goes so far as to not truly show LE's defeat, just how in chess the last move to take the king is never played out), but it's once again a case of Calliope versus Caliborn. But I don't think if Hussie'd end it so ambiguously if he just wanted Lord English to win, not to mention the Calmasis foreshadowing is specifically about the game continuing on after checkmate before the ultimate victory. Because of this, and other small bits and pieces, I'm changing to the psychout party (I'll change my signature as soon as I get the chance, which may be a while given my current circumstances). My guess is that it was never really meant to be brought up again at some point (though I did think it would myself for some time), but rather that the Calmasis thing and Calliope and Caliborn's chess match were references to how the B1 and B2 session continued beyond the death of the kings. Or maybe even that in both B1 and B2, the true "Black King" (AKA the end boss) were actually the villains wearing the rings instead of the sceptres like queens (B1 Jack and The Condesce respectively). As if the queen and king were switched around. I gotta admit I really like your comparison of a checkmate and the end of the comic though. That's awesome.
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Post by eerr on Sept 1, 2016 20:40:51 GMT
Don't forget that Caliborn did die! On his quest bed no less.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
Posts: 1,343
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Post by dldracorex on Sept 1, 2016 23:10:12 GMT
Anyway, something just occurred to me, unrelated to the argument I've been having with alleywaycreeper: We've never really cashed out on the Calmasis foreshadowing, have we? The idea is that he continued the chess game past the death of the king. Further on in Calliope and Caliborn's chess match, the same happens, Caliborn carries on past the perceived checkmate. Now that could be a metaphor for Lord English's respawning in general, but that doesn't exactly match. What seems the most fitting point for this to play out is the ending. Not only is it a presumed checkmate (it even goes so far as to not truly show LE's defeat, just how in chess the last move to take the king is never played out), but it's once again a case of Calliope versus Caliborn. But I don't think if Hussie'd end it so ambiguously if he just wanted Lord English to win, not to mention the Calmasis foreshadowing is specifically about the game continuing on after checkmate before the ultimate victory. Because of this, and other small bits and pieces, I'm changing to the psychout party (I'll change my signature as soon as I get the chance, which may be a while given my current circumstances). My guess is that it was never really meant to be brought up again at some point (though I did think it would myself for some time), but rather that the Calmasis thing and Calliope and Caliborn's chess match were references to how the B1 and B2 session continued beyond the death of the kings. Or maybe even that in both B1 and B2, the true "Black King" (AKA the end boss) were actually the villains wearing the rings instead of the sceptres like queens (B1 Jack and The Condesce respectively). As if the queen and king were switched around. I gotta admit I really like your comparison of a checkmate and the end of the comic though. That's awesome. I think the chess game might have also related to Calliope. Specifically, doomed!Calliope. She reached a loss condition, specifically, being in a doomed timeline. She was not supposed to win, and any timeline in which she even had the opportunity to win was doomed. Victory was impossible for her. And yet, she still managed to achieve her victory condition in the Alpha Timeline.
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InternallyLactiad
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Post by InternallyLactiad on Sept 2, 2016 1:40:40 GMT
Am I the only one feeling uber nostalgic looking back at my old stuff on my computer (from 7th grade) . I feel like crying ;;_; I was so obsessed with HS back then.
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Post by Piono on Sept 2, 2016 1:43:03 GMT
Yeah, just thinking about all the stuff I used to do just sort of makes me think "where did the time go?" Although not as much involving Homestuck for me, as I've actually gotten MORE into the community now that I used to be.
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InternallyLactiad
Calloused Tenderfoot
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Post by InternallyLactiad on Sept 2, 2016 1:47:50 GMT
Yeah, It's made a big impact on me. (I was going through a big move and my friends were blocking me out) So I was pretty much alone. I started binge reading it. When I started reading it I went on sites and saw that there was a lot of people like me on Tumblr and the forums and at school I met so many fans. It helped my little prepubescent heart cope.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Sept 2, 2016 3:02:14 GMT
I generally try to suppress my memories of middle school...
All I remember is being too obsessed with Vriska x John, and not actually having a clue what was going on plot-wise.
(Now I basically have the entire plot memorized, and am enlightened to the fact that Roxygen is the superior ship.)
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Post by mementovivere on Sept 2, 2016 14:16:12 GMT
My guess is that it was never really meant to be brought up again at some point (though I did think it would myself for some time), but rather that the Calmasis thing and Calliope and Caliborn's chess match were references to how the B1 and B2 session continued beyond the death of the kings. Or maybe even that in both B1 and B2, the true "Black King" (AKA the end boss) were actually the villains wearing the rings instead of the sceptres like queens (B1 Jack and The Condesce respectively). As if the queen and king were switched around. I gotta admit I really like your comparison of a checkmate and the end of the comic though. That's awesome. I think the chess game might have also related to Calliope. Specifically, doomed!Calliope. She reached a loss condition, specifically, being in a doomed timeline. She was not supposed to win, and any timeline in which she even had the opportunity to win was doomed. Victory was impossible for her. And yet, she still managed to achieve her victory condition in the Alpha Timeline. It works for both Calliopes, really! Both of them died, but both of them still managed to receive an ending in which they "won". Our Calliope got to live happily ever after with her friends, and alt!Calliope helped bring about the defeat of her alt-universe brother. Depending on how far you're willing to bend the phrasing, it could also work for the Caliborn who was defeated in battle but then was sealed away in a way that turned him into Lord English later on. I am very interested in the idea that the "playing beyond the death of the king" foreshadowing will end up being relevant to the ending of the comic, though. I'm still very much of the opinion that Hussie left some of the plotholes for a reason (specifically the Masterpiece, which intentionally showed an "ending battle" that was different from the ending animations which were already in production at that point) so I think there's still a little more story to go in the epilogue... but I totally forgot that we have specific foreshadowing about characters using an "enchantment" to play beyond the traditional end of a game.
Something else I was thinking of recently, on that note... we still don't really know what this sweet bro and hella jeff strip is supposed to hint at. Obviously the frog probably refers to the frog they make at the end... but going off of the idea that there is still more story to come, I had the idea that maybe it might translate as follows. Granted, trying to parse meaning from these things means a whooooole lot of loose and generous interpretations of various symbols, and a whole lot of squinting at blurry shadows on a cave wall DUGE. THIS LITTILE GREEN TOILET ELF THINK 'S HE IS THE FUCKING PRINCE OF THE LILYpod.Translation: The universe frog thinks he's sooooo great and is the most important thing in the story. HES ACTUALLY THE PRINCE OF MY STU-PID DICK.Translation: The ending heavily featuring the creation of the frog is actually stupid and worthy of mocking. I'AM NOT EVEN GONING TO CAP ENSNARE HIM. I AM -- ASHAMED OF HIM AND THIS ENTIRE POND.Translation: I'm not even going to bother with the ending. I am now ashamed of it and the entire story of Homestuck! (ie: many fans after the ending) <Drops the net thing, which slowly settles.> Translation: Fans drop Homestuck, and we gradually wait for the ending anticipation and the general Homestuck hype machine to settle down. <Giant clam smirks, with the net inside> Translation: The clam knows something we don't know, but is still holding onto Homestuck and biding its time waiting.......
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Sept 2, 2016 15:24:59 GMT
DUGE. THIS LITTILE GREEN TOILET ELF THINK 'S HE IS THE FUCKING PRINCE OF THE LILYpod.Translation: The universe frog thinks he's sooooo great and is the most important thing in the story. HES ACTUALLY THE PRINCE OF MY STU-PID DICK.Translation: The ending heavily featuring the creation of the frog is actually stupid and worthy of mocking. I'AM NOT EVEN GONING TO CAP ENSNARE HIM. I AM -- ASHAMED OF HIM AND THIS ENTIRE POND.Translation: I'm not even going to bother with the ending. I am now ashamed of it and the entire story of Homestuck! (ie: many fans after the ending) <Drops the net thing, which slowly settles.> Translation: Fans drop Homestuck, and we gradually wait for the ending anticipation and the general Homestuck hype machine to settle down. <Giant clam smirks, with the net inside> Translation: The clam knows something we don't know, but is still holding onto Homestuck and biding its time waiting....... Whoa... This interpretation of the SBaHJ comic is AMAZING.
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Post by Gab on Sept 2, 2016 15:29:15 GMT
There's a lot of Cherub based foreshadowing that went unresolved/unaddressed in Homestuck. There's this, there's all that imagery of the snake eating its own tail that never amounted to anything. There's that one speech that Calliope made to Jane that, in hindsight, is wrong on several counts. Some might argue that there should've been more to the revelation that the Cherubs are linked to the Zilly equipment(or just more meaning to Zilly stuff in general). All the no-so-subtle-hints about Caliborn's incestual feelings combined with the clunky exposition we got on the very unusual Cherub mating process surely seemed like that was going to mean something, but nope. It almost seems as if Hussie genuinely did have some other story in mind and that the Retcon truly was an actual retcon, preemptively cancelling the story Hussie had in mind, in favour of the mess we got instead. You make a point, though I'm not exactly sure how much of whatever all this would be foreshadowing would fit in the story. As loose and open as things are, there's really not much room for any more plot aside from whatever the final battle against English might entail. Anyway, since it is near the end of the story, I'd say most of this stuff can be seen as following up on previous lingering plot threads rather than setting up for something else. A lot of the cherub biology stuff, which was hamfistedly delivered by Aranea, I think boiled down to explaining the mentality of cherubs, and demonstrating they have a unique biological relationship with the invincibility English would later inherit, partly explaining why he's such a unique case as far as Sburb disasters go. Caliborn's feelings are a follow up on what we were told is a cherub's natural inclination to want to seek a partner that reminds them of their lost other self, and I think lends to why he would eventually create a completely subservient lackey who bears a number of her motifs and mannerisms, at least as how he would interpret them, in Doc Scratch, a being he would later kill by emerging from. The only one I truly feel remiss about is the zilly stuff. I mean, I knew some of that was cockamamie throwaway silliness, and mostly serves to tie something serious and plot important to something ridiculous probably, but ultimately I think it would have been nice to have some kind of followup on the whole trickster business. And so on. Really, a lot of stuff besides that (and even then) is based on brief lines and moments that are never really given much focus, never brought up again, and more often than not are used for humor rather than serious plot stuff. The chess foreshadowing was one line mentioned in passing in a broader story full of details completely irrelevant to anything relating to the cherubs (since that itself was a followup on Rose's fanfic from B1, which back then was supposed to foreshadow the trolls and their plot relevance), which is why I don't think it needed to foreshadow anything bigger than it ended up doing. Something else I was thinking of recently, on that note... we still don't really know what this sweet bro and hella jeff strip is supposed to hint at. Obviously the frog probably refers to the frog they make at the end... but going off of the idea that there is still more story to come, I had the idea that maybe it might translate as follows. Granted, trying to parse meaning from these things means a whooooole lot of loose and generous interpretations of various symbols, and a whole lot of squinting at blurry shadows on a cave wall Admittedly your breakdown makes an eery amount of sense. I don't know if Andrew would be so certain that everyone would hate the ending though, considering the arguments that have sprouted since then. Also, there's that business about the clam being made of previous sbahj strips?
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Sept 2, 2016 15:57:05 GMT
About that Zilly stuff and the trickster arc. It is explicitly stated in the comic that we would never speak of act six act five act two again. Sooooooo.......
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Post by melonlord on Sept 2, 2016 19:14:08 GMT
Something else I was thinking of recently, on that note... we still don't really know what this sweet bro and hella jeff strip is supposed to hint at. Obviously the frog probably refers to the frog they make at the end... but going off of the idea that there is still more story to come, I had the idea that maybe it might translate as follows. Granted, trying to parse meaning from these things means a whooooole lot of loose and generous interpretations of various symbols, and a whole lot of squinting at blurry shadows on a cave wall DUGE. THIS LITTILE GREEN TOILET ELF THINK 'S HE IS THE FUCKING PRINCE OF THE LILYpod.Translation: The universe frog thinks he's sooooo great and is the most important thing in the story. HES ACTUALLY THE PRINCE OF MY STU-PID DICK.Translation: The ending heavily featuring the creation of the frog is actually stupid and worthy of mocking. I'AM NOT EVEN GONING TO CAP ENSNARE HIM. I AM -- ASHAMED OF HIM AND THIS ENTIRE POND.Translation: I'm not even going to bother with the ending. I am now ashamed of it and the entire story of Homestuck! (ie: many fans after the ending) <Drops the net thing, which slowly settles.> Translation: Fans drop Homestuck, and we gradually wait for the ending anticipation and the general Homestuck hype machine to settle down. <Giant clam smirks, with the net inside> Translation: The clam knows something we don't know, but is still holding onto Homestuck and biding its time waiting....... Hm. How could both the pond and the net be Homestuck, though? The reader (Hella Jeff) uses the net ON the frog (the ending), and the rest of Homestuck. So possibly it could represent our interest and investment in the comic, which we discard after not even bothering to use it on the disappointing ending, and which settles afterwards before being ensnared by the clam, which would represent interest moving to something else, probably. Interestingly, if Homestuck as a whole is the pond, then the clam is still part of Homestuck like the frog was, just a less obvious part that we didn't know about. And it's made up of Sbahj strips...hm. I guess it could represent the weird SBAHJ teaser thing we got? And how our interest will be recaptured by the secret project once it comes out? He called it "other things" in the newspost, though, which implies that it's something outside Homestuck. That doesn't fit if we assume the clam is indeed part of Homestuck. Could be Homestuck 2.0 stuff, but the way they presented it in that one intro video it sounds like it's more "Homestuck fan and side-content", rather than a continuation of Homestuck proper. So, we discard our interest in the ending, and it's recaptured by some other thing, a hidden part of Homestuck made up...of...shitty...sbahj...strips... oH GOD DAMNIT
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Post by Gab on Sept 2, 2016 20:32:27 GMT
Okay I'm starting to feel like I need to see what the deal is with Cool and New WebComic, because there's like all this conspiracy and happenstance and I'm just feeling out of the loop. Guess I'll go binge that.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Sept 2, 2016 20:41:23 GMT
Okay I'm starting to feel like I need to see what the deal is with Cool and New WebComic, because there's like all this conspiracy and happenstance and I'm just feeling out of the loop. Guess I'll go binge that. You totally should!!! It's funny reading this from an Omegaupdate regular considering that so many of the regular users on the subreddit (myself included) are ALL ABOUT that comic. There's even a fan-made soundtrack on Bandcamp, which I am contributing to.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Sept 2, 2016 20:41:45 GMT
I think the chess game might have also related to Calliope. Specifically, doomed!Calliope. She reached a loss condition, specifically, being in a doomed timeline. She was not supposed to win, and any timeline in which she even had the opportunity to win was doomed. Victory was impossible for her. And yet, she still managed to achieve her victory condition in the Alpha Timeline. It works for both Calliopes, really! Both of them died, but both of them still managed to receive an ending in which they "won". Our Calliope got to live happily ever after with her friends, and alt!Calliope helped bring about the defeat of her alt-universe brother. Depending on how far you're willing to bend the phrasing, it could also work for the Caliborn who was defeated in battle but then was sealed away in a way that turned him into Lord English later on. Yeah, maybe, but I think it works better for doomed!Calliope. Despite the fact that any timeline in which she even played the game was doomed, she managed to achieve her session's win condition (the martyr's path) in the alpha timeline. Alpha Calliope just managed to be present for an entirely different session's victory.
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Post by espressonist on Sept 3, 2016 0:02:04 GMT
Okay I'm starting to feel like I need to see what the deal is with Cool and New WebComic, because there's like all this conspiracy and happenstance and I'm just feeling out of the loop. Guess I'll go binge that. It's good!! I'm hoping that if it ends up being totally unrelated to anything official.... That O doesn't get hit with a ton of hate...
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Sept 3, 2016 2:51:52 GMT
Okay I'm starting to feel like I need to see what the deal is with Cool and New WebComic, because there's like all this conspiracy and happenstance and I'm just feeling out of the loop. Guess I'll go binge that. It's good!! I'm hoping that if it ends up being totally unrelated to anything official.... That O doesn't get hit with a ton of hate... Well, it's not like o is actually claiming to be Hussie. People just think o's writing style is similar enough for it to be a possibility (o's "normal" writing style, anyways).
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Post by espressonist on Sept 3, 2016 15:45:37 GMT
Oh I know. For sure. And I wouldn't confirm or deny if I were O either. I just know this fandom and our salt capabilities. Lol
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Sept 4, 2016 6:21:23 GMT
Uh, guys. Are the images on mspaintadventures.com broken for you?
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Post by obsidalicious on Sept 4, 2016 6:33:26 GMT
Uh, guys. Are the images on mspaintadventures.com broken for you? Working fine for me.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Sept 4, 2016 6:57:52 GMT
Uh, guys. Are the images on mspaintadventures.com broken for you? Working fine for me. Oh wait, shit, it is just blocked for me. Only the images though.
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Post by Gab on Sept 4, 2016 22:00:07 GMT
Okay I'm back and caught up with / following canwc now. Can proudly claim to understand the deal with it.
I guess that's all I have to say. Thank you, and good night.
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Post by Piono on Sept 4, 2016 22:38:32 GMT
You can't escape the canwcer canwc.
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