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Post by birdwords on Apr 30, 2016 19:32:30 GMT
Anything that Lord English already did (from his perspective) before being defeated would obviously still come to pass if it hasn't happened yet from the perspective of our heroes, but there is no future for Lord English, so he can't destroy anything that he hasn't already/will have already destroyed. As far as I can tell, there aren't multiple instances of Lord English, just Lord English from different points on his personal timeline.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 30, 2016 20:42:55 GMT
Anything that Lord English already did (from his perspective) before being defeated would obviously still come to pass if it hasn't happened yet from the perspective of our heroes, but there is no future for Lord English, so he can't destroy anything that he hasn't already/will have already destroyed. As far as I can tell, there aren't multiple instances of Lord English, just Lord English from different points on his personal timeline. That's assuming English was defeated and there is no future for him. But even if he was, it still doesn't matter for our heroes if he's already ruined their lives before he was defeated.
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Post by Arashi500 on Apr 30, 2016 21:24:54 GMT
Well, if he DID in fact get trapped in the Juju, then it makes sense because Caliborn said that the Juju traps souls, so therefore Lord English's soul would not be able to resurface anywhere else. Except Lord English from earlier in the timeline could still resurface anywhere. That's assuming being trapped in the Juju wouldn't retroactively affect all earlier iterations of him as well.
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Post by melonlord on May 1, 2016 3:33:08 GMT
Except Lord English from earlier in the timeline could still resurface anywhere. That's assuming being trapped in the Juju wouldn't retroactively affect all earlier iterations of him as well. ...why would we assume that? We don't even really know what the juju does. The beta kids getting trapped in it didn't seem to affect any other version of them, so far as I can tell. And wouldn't retconning Lord English out of the story negatively affect a LOT of things? Namely the creation of the Green Sun and the entire chain of A2, B1, B2 and C?
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Post by Neptz on May 1, 2016 3:55:23 GMT
Didn't someone state that Lord English's defeat will be the first amongst many, and it'll give hope to others of eliminating him for good? That seems to imply there's multiple of him, or at least that his defeat at the hands of Vriska and the summoned kids didn't off him.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on May 1, 2016 3:57:41 GMT
Didn't someone state that Lord English's defeat will be the first amongst many, and it'll give hope to others of eliminating him for good? That seems to imply there's multiple of him, or at least that his defeat at the hands of Vriska and the summoned kids didn't off him. Well we know there's multiple of him, (hi Union Jack) and potentially more because he can show up wherever that doll is, and because it was flung into the Void, it can show up anywhere. And we don't even know if Vriska did defeat him; I think his first defeat was supposed to be due to Jake summoning a Hope field on his own in the masterpiece.
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Post by Arashi500 on May 1, 2016 5:28:57 GMT
Didn't someone state that Lord English's defeat will be the first amongst many, and it'll give hope to others of eliminating him for good? That seems to imply there's multiple of him, or at least that his defeat at the hands of Vriska and the summoned kids didn't off him. Oh I know. Just carrying the "That's assuming that..." chain to it's next logical conclusion.
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Post by sigh on May 1, 2016 5:39:42 GMT
There's a theory going around how the kids "won" by being able to leave Homestuck, and the game of Sburb itself by winning and using the Juju to exit, leaving English stuck behind, but if that's the case even that's not really a victory, that's just tossing their problems onto someone else while they quit the game. I mean yeah from a meta perspective they "won" that way, but from an in-universe perspective he's still there.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on May 2, 2016 17:47:20 GMT
Didn't someone state that Lord English's defeat will be the first amongst many, and it'll give hope to others of eliminating him for good? That seems to imply there's multiple of him, or at least that his defeat at the hands of Vriska and the summoned kids didn't off him. That was said about Jake defeating LE, not his defeat overall.
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InternallyLactiad
Calloused Tenderfoot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOJwB80oCWk
Posts: 180
Pronouns: [any]
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Post by InternallyLactiad on May 3, 2016 0:16:36 GMT
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Post by sigh on Aug 23, 2016 4:20:07 GMT
On a scale of "not getting dessert after dinner" to "going to Disneyland only to find that the park is burning down when you arrive" how bad is it that when I first woke up yesterday literally my first thought coming out of sleep was essentially: "I fully buy the theory that the characters of HS 'won' by essentially leaving the story, but I find that explanation to simultaneously be a horrible note to go out on for a story like Homestuck as well as a huge disservice to the integrity of the characters."?
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moirail
Greentike
Posts: 2
Pronouns: she/her/hers
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Post by moirail on Aug 26, 2016 2:13:17 GMT
honestly for some reason i was hoping to see everyone god tier
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Post by sigh on Aug 26, 2016 2:21:59 GMT
That actually does raise a bit of a conundrum, anyone who isn't God Tier doesn't get to be effectively immortal and will age normally which especially for someone like Karkat is probably a very short life span...
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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 26, 2016 4:38:14 GMT
That actually does raise a bit of a conundrum, anyone who isn't God Tier doesn't get to be effectively immortal and will age normally which especially for someone like Karkat is probably a very short life span... Well, soulbots are a thing. Everyone make way for Mecha-Karkat.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2016 6:52:43 GMT
That actually does raise a bit of a conundrum, anyone who isn't God Tier doesn't get to be effectively immortal and will age normally which especially for someone like Karkat is probably a very short life span... Well, soulbots are a thing. Everyone make way for Mecha-Karkat. make him a god-emperor of man(troll)kind echidna destined him to be
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Aug 31, 2016 7:12:21 GMT
That actually does raise a bit of a conundrum, anyone who isn't God Tier doesn't get to be effectively immortal and will age normally which especially for someone like Karkat is probably a very short life span... Well, soulbots are a thing. Everyone make way for Mecha-Karkat. If that's not just a thing Aradia could do. Although it's never made clear if God Tiering freezes your aging.
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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 31, 2016 8:17:43 GMT
Well, soulbots are a thing. Everyone make way for Mecha-Karkat. If that's not just a thing Aradia could do. In subtle ways, Jade's Dream Bot acted much like a Soul Bot. At the end of the day, a Soul Bot really is just a replacement body. Everyone's soul seems to be doing fine with the protein based one they have now. Heck, with sufficient cloning and bio-engineering technology, you might even to make soul bots that are very literally new bodies. Or, failing that, they could always look into Futurama-esque head-in-a-jar technology. Or maybe a Ship of Theseus approach might work, slowly replace each bodily component with better or rejuvenated pieces.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Aug 31, 2016 10:30:14 GMT
If that's not just a thing Aradia could do. In subtle ways, Jade's Dream Bot acted much like a Soul Bot. Eh. It was pretty different. Similar to a point but still pretty different.
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Post by espressonist on Aug 31, 2016 13:43:20 GMT
There's a theory going around how the kids "won" by being able to leave Homestuck, and the game of Sburb itself by winning and using the Juju to exit, leaving English stuck behind, but if that's the case even that's not really a victory, that's just tossing their problems onto someone else while they quit the game. I mean yeah from a meta perspective they "won" that way, but from an in-universe perspective he's still there. Yeah.. Really not a good win. Everyone you love- or a good chunk of them are dead. The universe you knew is essentially gone.... But here! You escaped and get this new universe for everyone left alive! Which, will maybe probably be the future home to Cal/Calli... So really you winning is causing you to eventually run into Lord English. Congrats!!
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