thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 10, 2016 23:38:07 GMT
The very last page is a secret hidden Flash where dead!villain!Vriska wanders through the afterlife and is eventually forced into marriage, either with Hussie or Caliborn.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2016 4:30:04 GMT
BTW, why is everyone (including Calliope, who seems to be able to actually do it) so bent on destroying the Green Sun? The only one who really seems to care about destroying the Green Sun is alternate Calliope, whose motivations are still pretty mysterious. I'm guessing we'll see in Act 7 what the benefit of destroying the Green Sun is (assuming alt. Calliope has benevolent intentions). She seemed to imply that she wanted first guardian powers for herself: "JADE: and i have all these powers!
JADE: really GOOD powers
JADE: maybe even... the BEST powers?
CALLIOPE: yes, they are the best powers.
JADE: so why cant i just wake up and USE them??
CALLIOPE: powers such as yours are a great asset, but in time, become an even greater liability.
CALLIOPE: that is why you sleep.
JADE: i dont understand!
CALLIOPE: you will not be able to control them for the purpose of your mission.
CALLIOPE: you are barely in control of your most modest capabilities.
CALLIOPE: you are still quite young, and your kind is soft.
CALLIOPE: the ability to absolutely dominate is better housed in a being designed for seclusion, singularity of purpose, and remorseless resolve.
CALLIOPE: it is too much for one like you." Reading that quote again, it looks more like Muse!Calliope wants to steal it, rather than destroy it. Like she thinks its power's wielder is more suited to be her than Jade.
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 5:19:27 GMT
Reading that quote again, it looks more like Muse!Calliope wants to steal it, rather than destroy it. Like she thinks its power's wielder is more suited to be her than Jade. Not only that, but she seems to be describing Vriska as well... "A being designed for seclusion, singularity of purpose, and remorseless resolve." She also specifically uses the term "singularity", heh.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2016 5:32:30 GMT
Reading that quote again, it looks more like Muse!Calliope wants to steal it, rather than destroy it. Like she thinks its power's wielder is more suited to be her than Jade. Not only that, but she seems to be describing Vriska as well... "A being designed for seclusion, singularity of purpose, and remorseless resolve." She also specifically uses the term "singularity", heh. Maybe what the Juju will actually do when Vriska activates it is suck up the Green Sun. Or shatter the circle around it or something. Because I'm not completely convinced at this point that its going to do exactly what she thinks it will. It could, but...
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 5:56:33 GMT
Maybe what the Juju will actually do when Vriska activates it is suck up the Green Sun. Or shatter the circle around it or something. Because I'm not completely convinced at this point that its going to do exactly what she thinks it will. It could, but... I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2016 6:18:31 GMT
Maybe what the Juju will actually do when Vriska activates it is suck up the Green Sun. Or shatter the circle around it or something. Because I'm not completely convinced at this point that its going to do exactly what she thinks it will. It could, but... I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. That would be an interesting twist on that. Still, ew. The picture that puts in my head is not pretty.
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Post by amiabletemplar on Apr 11, 2016 6:53:20 GMT
Reading that quote again, it looks more like Muse!Calliope wants to steal it, rather than destroy it. Like she thinks its power's wielder is more suited to be her than Jade. I dunno about "steal" it, but she certainly thinks she's better-equipped to correctly use it than Jade is. Given her other statements, about Space "roaring to life" and taking out everyone in a blaze of glory, I definitely think she's planning to do something with the Green Sun that will seriously shake up the order of things. My suspicion is that she will punch a hole through Pspace itself, actually *breaking* the fabric of space along those rainbow seizure cracks. From there, one of two possibilities emerges, based on where Lord English is located at the time of the break: 1. Lord English is *inside* the Green Sun's region. He is thus confined to a separate, contained "shard" of Paradox Space (that which can be influenced by the Green Sun) while the rest remain 'outside,' freed from LE's malign influence and the Green Sun's "coloUrs and mayhem." 2. Lord English is *outside* the Green Sun's region. He continues to have access to Pspace, but can no longer touch the region bound to the Green Sun. This would seem to be consistent with the stream of bubbles (which could be either dream bubbles or incipispheres, hard to say precisely) pouring into the region inside the "cracked" circle. Note that, since Pspace is effectively infinite, a shard of it is also infinite--but being infinite doesn't mean you can get out of it. ("Positive numbers" and "negative numbers" are both infinite sets, but no part of the first is contained in the second or vice-versa, and neither set contains 0.) This would thus be consistent with the hints we've been given that our heroes won't completely defeat Lord English, but will escape his ability for him to affect them anymore.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2016 12:25:43 GMT
I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. That would be an interesting twist on that. Still, ew. The picture that puts in my head is not pretty. "So THIS is what Homeworld thinks of fusion!"
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Post by mementovivere on Apr 11, 2016 14:35:12 GMT
Maybe what the Juju will actually do when Vriska activates it is suck up the Green Sun. Or shatter the circle around it or something. Because I'm not completely convinced at this point that its going to do exactly what she thinks it will. It could, but... I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. One of my top theories for what happens with that Juju is that the kids become the glowy frog Jade found as a kid, whose origins we STILL haven't seen. The main reason I think that is because of the blue, red, lilac, and lime green eye colors (spoilered for flashiness):
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Outis
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Post by Outis on Apr 11, 2016 14:47:06 GMT
Maybe what the Juju will actually do when Vriska activates it is suck up the Green Sun. Or shatter the circle around it or something. Because I'm not completely convinced at this point that its going to do exactly what she thinks it will. It could, but... I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. Alternatively, Juju could imprison LE, just like beta kids, or somehow separate him into Caliborn, Arquiusprite and half of Gamzee.
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Post by accipitrineOutlier on Apr 11, 2016 15:10:20 GMT
I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. Alternatively, Juju could imprison LE, just like beta kids, or somehow separate him into Caliborn, Arquiusprite and half of Gamzee. Or even Caliborn, Equius, AR and half of Gamzee, if we want to fill all four squares. I like the idea of Altiope doing something with the Sun, but I'm hesitant to discard all that Thief of Light Vriska foreshadowing. I just hope that whoever inevitably steals it, there's at least some reference to "let me explain you a thing."
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 11, 2016 15:15:50 GMT
Obviously the Kids come out of the Juju as the Final Frog.
If Sburn teaches us anything it's that there's a frog behind ever Sburb logo.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 17:13:27 GMT
One of my top theories for what happens with that Juju is that the kids become the glowy frog Jade found as a kid, whose origins we STILL haven't seen. The main reason I think that is because of the blue, red, lilac, and lime green eye colors (spoilered for flashiness): I have considered this as well, for the same reasons as you, but I think this would be too depressing even for Homestuck. Especially when one of the kids is holding the frog in her hands as it dies. I honestly think that Hussie considered those colors to be passable as rainbow eyes, and it's supposed to be LE in there. It would be amazing if LE was defeated thousands of pages and almost five years ago, before his proper introduction, by none other than good dog, best friend. EDIT: Also, the four colors work regardless. Green = Caliborn, Red = Hal, Blue = Equius, Purple = Gamzee.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 11, 2016 17:14:42 GMT
One of my top theories for what happens with that Juju is that the kids become the glowy frog Jade found as a kid, whose origins we STILL haven't seen. The main reason I think that is because of the blue, red, lilac, and lime green eye colors (spoilered for flashiness): I have considered this as well, for the same reasons as you, but I think this would be too depressing even for Homestuck. Especially when one of the kids is holding the frog in her hands as it dies. I honestly think that Hussie considered those colors to be passable as rainbow eyes, and it's supposed to be LE in there. It would be amazing if LE was defeated thousands of pages and almost five years ago, before his proper introduction, by none other than good dog, best friend. EDIT: Also, the four colors work regardless. Green = Caliborn, Red = Hal, Blue = Equius, Purple = Gamzee. Yeah people always seem to think of incredibly pessimistic fates for the comic's main characters.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2016 17:23:30 GMT
I honestly think it will somehow release the four kids as a single entity. And then they will fight their polar opposite, Lord English, Kaiju-style. This will lay waste to the notion of endgame ships, and serve as an appropriately bittersweet fate for the kids and their loved ones. One of my top theories for what happens with that Juju is that the kids become the glowy frog Jade found as a kid, whose origins we STILL haven't seen. The main reason I think that is because of the blue, red, lilac, and lime green eye colors (spoilered for flashiness): Obviously the Kids come out of the Juju as the Final Frog. If Sburn teaches us anything it's that there's a frog behind ever Sburb logo. I like that idea. But thinking about it....jeez, that'd be incredibly cruel. The only way the kids could've ever made their frog was if they eventually ended up trapped in the Juju (for God knows how long) and then turned into that. Yikes. And then...well, we all remember what happened to that frog. And if that were the case....are the trolls actually lucky they didn't find their final one? While I'm here, can I state for the record a reason why, if there is no Act 8, it'd be kind of a shame? Not just because nothing's getting tied up, not just because it would be crazy meta if the story continued past Act 7 but not as Homestuck, and not just because if the above frog theory is correct we're headed for a really depressing ending. It's because of the role that the number 8 has repeatedly played in the story. The number has shown up over and over again and, fittingly enough given the various billiards allusions, it's been continuously associated with destruction on an apocalyptic scale. If the theories about Paradox Space being destroyed by the end of the comic are correct, that's the mother of all apocalypses. That's the end of the framework of reality. Not to mention that 8 is also the infinity sign, which is linked with the cherubs, ouroboros, immortality and the God Tiers. And of course in pool, the sinking of the 8 ball signals the, well, the end of the game. All that is to say that I think no Act 8 would be a big missed opportunity, just saying. So here's what I think: if there was going to be an Act 8, but Hussie made sure that none of us knew for sure before hand, he'd end things with the kids turned into that frog. Both because he feeds on our black liquid sorrow gushers, and because that is as dark as it fucking gets. That's a low point it would be ridiculously gratifying to see the story come back from. And it could be done. There's still another retcon John out there, and if he sets the pieces in place to initiate a soul merger...well then, it doesn't have to be the end for our heroes, or even those particular versions of our heroes. One more thing. Leading up to and during Collide, PM and Jack are visually likened with green and red blooded cherubs. PM chases Jack to a ruined Prospit the way the cherubs' mother chased their father through the carnage he had wrought. The colors green and red flash as the camera jumps from one's perspective to the other's, and if you pause at just the right moment, (6:48) this shot is recreated with PM and Jack. (However, in the flash...red and green are switched. Could be an error. ) But taking these recent reminders about the nature of cherub courtship into account, and then pairing it all with the fact that we know Muse!Calliope wants to do something with the Green Sun...well, what was that whole bit about cherubs and black holes again?
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 17:39:34 GMT
But taking these recent reminders about the nature of cherub courtship into account, and then pairing it all with the fact that we know Muse!Calliope wants to do something with the Green Sun...well, what was that whole bit about cherubs and black holes again? Oh, I thought it was kind of obvious that she was gonna start devouring the sun, thereby collapsing it into a black hole (or maybe a white hole?) to serve as the mating ground for her and LE. (S) Collapse.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2016 18:08:00 GMT
But taking these recent reminders about the nature of cherub courtship into account, and then pairing it all with the fact that we know Muse!Calliope wants to do something with the Green Sun...well, what was that whole bit about cherubs and black holes again? Oh, I thought it was kind of obvious that she was gonna start devouring the sun, thereby collapsing it into a black hole (or maybe a white hole?) to serve as the mating ground for her and LE. (S) Collapse. I think she's going to do something to it, (or at least benefit from something being done to it) but I didn't think a single young cherub could just eat a sun. The quote you sighted suggests to me that a cherub eats the stellar energy that results after a star has already gone supernova, and not unambiguously that the cherub causes it.
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ceph
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Post by ceph on Apr 11, 2016 19:42:16 GMT
Y'know I'm not sure how likely this is but I've seen talk that the black hole that Union Jack's severed head resulted in might lead to Caliborn's session the same way his kernel did. Now I dunno if I'm in favor of this theory or not but if it's true we are closer to having a complete loop for the crowbar: - The crowbar is given to Caliborn by Gamzee on LOCAM
- Caliborn uses the crowbar as a weapon throughout his quest (notably against Yaldabaoth)
- The crowbar ends up with Felt #7 aka Crowbar The Guy
- Intermission 1 happens, Spades Slick steals the crowbar and pries open the safe
- Slick hops to an alternate universe, one where the crowbar is in the dream bubbles, likely due to shenanigans
- Gamzee obtains the crowbar in his afterlife scavenger hunt
- Gamzee sends the crowbar to B2 Noir (pre-Union Jack)
- Noir becomes Union Jack and escapes Derse Prison, ends up in a fight with Spades Slick
- Union Jack's head explodes and teleports the crowbar (and likely Gamzee) to Caliborn's session
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 11, 2016 20:50:29 GMT
Probably my last IDE before the end of Homestuck:
Caliborn uses his exile station to appear at the lilypad, while John is reaching for the door to the new universe. He uses his new powers to vaporize the door, the platform, and everyone standing on it, as a sort of callback to Bec Noir and the trolls. He leaves, but the deaths aren't heroic, so the 8 human kids revive; however, Dad and the trolls are permanently dead. This is why only the human kids appear in the Masterpiece, and is what forces them to go confront Caliborn in the first place.
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Post by silavor on Apr 11, 2016 21:00:07 GMT
On that note, it might also have brought Yaldabaoth to LOCAM. Now that we know Alt!Calliope has Echidna as a denizen instead of Yaldabaoth, it's possible LOCAM has two denizens; one for each player who shares the same body. Either that or the game somehow knows preemptively which cherub is going to predominate in that timeline, and gives them the appropriate denizen ahead of time.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 21:00:29 GMT
Probably my last IDE before the end of Homestuck: Caliborn uses his exile station to appear at the lilypad, while John is reaching for the door to the new universe. He uses his new powers to vaporize the door, the platform, and everyone standing on it, as a sort of callback to Bec Noir and the trolls. He leaves, but the deaths aren't heroic, so the 8 human kids revive; however, Dad and the trolls are permanently dead. This is why only the human kids appear in the Masterpiece, and is what forces them to go confront Caliborn in the first place. Fuck, I totally forgot about that! The trolls and Dad are the only ones here besides Calliope who AREN'T God Tier! The only troll in the party who IS God Tier, just happens to be occupied elsewhere. And Calliope can't die because of the ring! This works perfectly! EDIT: But wait, if Calliope survives, then why didn't they take her to the Masterpiece? Maybe because she has no powers that would help in a fight? Or maybe she does die and Caliborn steals the ring from her?
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 11, 2016 21:58:39 GMT
You know, something just occurred to me. Collide is like an opposite Game Over: Everything's going right instead of wrong. Game Over was retconed out of existence by John; what if the static at the end of Collide was representing that it's getting retconed by Lord English?
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 11, 2016 22:30:34 GMT
Probably my last IDE before the end of Homestuck: Caliborn uses his exile station to appear at the lilypad, while John is reaching for the door to the new universe. He uses his new powers to vaporize the door, the platform, and everyone standing on it, as a sort of callback to Bec Noir and the trolls. He leaves, but the deaths aren't heroic, so the 8 human kids revive; however, Dad and the trolls are permanently dead. This is why only the human kids appear in the Masterpiece, and is what forces them to go confront Caliborn in the first place. Or... what if, like the sequence in which Vriska fought Jack, turns out to be Terezi's mind vision? Except that sequence ends up at least partly real. Maybe the kids from Terezi's vision, when they zapped into Caliborn's session, became real once escaping the vision?
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 11, 2016 23:02:14 GMT
Probably my last IDE before the end of Homestuck: Caliborn uses his exile station to appear at the lilypad, while John is reaching for the door to the new universe. He uses his new powers to vaporize the door, the platform, and everyone standing on it, as a sort of callback to Bec Noir and the trolls. He leaves, but the deaths aren't heroic, so the 8 human kids revive; however, Dad and the trolls are permanently dead. This is why only the human kids appear in the Masterpiece, and is what forces them to go confront Caliborn in the first place. Fuck, I totally forgot about that! The trolls and Dad are the only ones here besides Calliope who AREN'T God Tier! The only troll in the party who IS God Tier, just happens to be occupied elsewhere. And Calliope can't die because of the ring! This works perfectly! EDIT: But wait, if Calliope survives, then why didn't they take her to the Masterpiece? Maybe because she has no powers that would help in a fight? Or maybe she does die and Caliborn steals the ring from her? Presumably, if Calliope is vaporized, the ring wouldn't be attached to her anymore, so it wouldn't keep her alive. Like when Jack lost his powers because his arm was cut off. Then Caliborn would take the ring while everyone was reviving, soon before the Masterpiece, in which he was seen with the ring. Seeing Caliborn with the ring in the future is foreshadowing of the death of the people on the platform, in the same way that the blood on Bec Noir's hand foreshadowed the death of the exiles. If this theory is true then it's like Act 5 all over again.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 11, 2016 23:26:10 GMT
You know, something just occurred to me. Collide is like an opposite Game Over: Everything's going right instead of wrong. Game Over was retconed out of existence by John; what if the static at the end of Collide was representing that it's getting retconed by Lord English? Collide is detrimental to the characters' development regardless. I am almost certain they are about to be punished for using a psychotropic game powerup to Trickster Mario their way to the finish, and for simply killing or defeating all of their enemies in the session, just as the trolls were punished for killing all of their Denizens and failing to complete their quests. Anything else would be almost directly contradictory to the moral espoused by Hussie earlier in the comic.
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