imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
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Post by imglasses on Aug 5, 2016 1:37:51 GMT
I mostly made this topic to ask the following question, but it can also serve as a general discussion about writing, if anyone else here is an author or aspiring author.
I hate the way dialog is written in novels. I hate reading "he said" "she said" "he said" "she said" almost every time someone says something, especially if there's a lot of dialog. The only thing worse is when the author constantly changes it up and writes "he growled" "she inquired" "he sobbed" "she exclaimed" with a new verb every time. In both cases it makes it difficult for me to immerse myself in the dialog.
I always assumed dialog was universally formatted this way for an important reason. But then I read Homestuck, where the "NAME: Dialog" "NAME: Dialog" format works really well, and allows for much greater quantities of dialog without it getting as tedious. I can almost always tell how the characters are feeling just by their personalities, the context, and the way they phrase things, and I never feel like the lack of verbs between every couple of sentences makes it hard for me to understand the discussion.
Now I'm planning on writing my own novel. Do you think it would be acceptable to write dialog in a format similar to Homestuck's? Everything would be standard format, except each paragraph of dialog would simply be "NAME: Dialog". It seems like it would work well to me, but I've read a lot of books and I've only ever seen one that exclusively used that dialog format (although I do consider that book to be the best I've ever read). It would be an unusual format, but would it be unusual in a bad way?
If it's relevant: I'm still in the worldbuilding stage, but it takes place in future, and there's a good chance that I'll have almost all conversations be electronic, rather than verbal (in other words, little has changed).
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loading
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
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Writing
Aug 5, 2016 1:48:08 GMT
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Post by loading on Aug 5, 2016 1:48:08 GMT
Oh so you're writing Homestuck, got it.
I feel like that style of writing is primarily used for writing scripts, but in theory the only thing wrong with it is social standards. So, go ahead.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Aug 5, 2016 2:26:20 GMT
Oh so you're writing Homestuck, got it. I feel like that style of writing is primarily used for writing scripts, but in theory the only thing wrong with it is social standards. So, go ahead. I think it probably will inevitably be inspired by Homestuck in some ways (for better or worse) considering how much an effect it's had on me, but there won't be any multiverses or time travel or magic, so the only similarities would be thematic. I'm not expecting it to become a bestseller or be taught in schools or anything, but I don't want people to be totally put off by it either. Would it feel unnatural, or give off the impression that I'm not trying? I can use speech tags just fine if I have to, I just really don't like them for some reason, and I didn't feel like Homestuck's dialog suffered from the lack of them (though maybe that's just me). |
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Writing
Aug 5, 2016 3:23:59 GMT
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Post by Piono on Aug 5, 2016 3:23:59 GMT
I think it's more a matter of medium. Homestuck can spread out a bit more because it has more than just that to differentiate the characters that are talking (eg. Text color, quirks). I mean, I have no idea if you'd be able to get it published using that formatting, but now that you bring it up, it would honestly be better if that were the norm than what currently is.
As a note, what I feel is best out of currently accepted formats is to not do the "someone said" when dropping between people, and whenever possible, using actions next to the dialogue to indicate who was talking such as "he sighed, turning his back on the party; "because then you denote who is taking without sprinkling random words in.
As another note, I feel it's okay to use things like "he growled" or "she sobbed", but only sparingly, when the underlying feel to that particular sentence needs just that much extra emphasis. It is a tool, and thus not bad on its own, but I'll agree it is one to use sparingly.
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imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
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Post by imglasses on Aug 5, 2016 3:48:38 GMT
I mean, I have no idea if you'd be able to get it published using that formatting, but now that you bring it up, it would honestly be better if that were the norm than what currently is. I don't even know if I'll be able to get it published with a traditional publisher, anyways. I know it's an unrealistic goal, but the plan is for it to be the longest book ever written, at around 2,200,000 words. Which means it'll be expensive to print and probably won't have a wide audience (don't worry, I'm not planning on being an author as a career, this is just a personal goal I want to accomplish on the side...for a few decades). I can risk making it about as untraditional as I want, but I do want it to be well-written. Besides, it can never become the norm if nobody ever at least tries it. As a note, what I feel is best out of currently accepted formats is to not do the "someone said" when dropping between people, and whenever possible, using actions next to the dialogue to indicate who was talking such as "he sighed, turning his back on the party; "because then you denote who is taking without sprinkling random words in. True, but I can still do this with my format: CHARACTER A: Something something something. CHARACTER B: Something something. Character A sighed, turning his back on the party. CHARACTER A: Something something something. Etc. This way I could include actions and descriptions when appropriate, rather than being forced to have each character do something or add a "he verbed adjectively" every single time they speak, which I think gets especially tedious for longer conversations. |
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Writing
Aug 5, 2016 4:55:50 GMT
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Post by Piono on Aug 5, 2016 4:55:50 GMT
Right, okay. I'd you're just doing this as your own thing, I'd say go for it. That style of dialogue formatting could work really well, and if you're not worried about publishing, then I see no reason not to try it.
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Post by obsidalicious on Aug 5, 2016 6:04:44 GMT
If your characters all have decently notable ways of talking, then that can eliminate the need for the "he said, she said". It doesn't have to be as extreme as technicolour 1337speak, just a few subtle things like having one character uses British colloquialisms often, while another is the sort who says 'like' every eight word can be enough to differentiate any given line of dialogue.
Similarly, you could utilise the content of the Dialogue; what every participant purpose is to serve as differentiation. For example, if you have two characters arguing either side of some particular issue, then all you need to do is establish which character holds which viewpoint for the first few lines, then the rest can roll with that where any line, even taken out of context can be attributed correctly based on the viewpoint being put supported.
Or you could do nothing, and when your readers complain that it's too confusing, just tell them that they're obviously too stupid to understand your artistic genius, that you're clearly the Vincent Van Gogh of this generation.(the ear thing is up to you if you wanna do that or not.)
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Post by pointycatears on Aug 6, 2016 19:45:12 GMT
I have the same problem with all of the ways to write "said," I find it too boring and repetetive and using alternative words seems like trying too hard to me, so I might want to try it like a script as well. I don't know yet.
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Post by Neptz on Aug 6, 2016 21:18:30 GMT
It tends to be especially hard to avoid 'he said' to the end of infinity when you have multiple characters, unless you go with what Obsidalicious said. It's your story, anyways. I don't think it'd be ridiculously succesful as a individual book, but it'd probably work anyways.
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Post by Blizzriel on Aug 7, 2016 17:02:40 GMT
Well, this is interesting. I started writing a fanfiction recently and after reading this thread I decided to go through it and see how many times I used the word "said" and variations. Here's what I found:
The first chapter (mid-editing) is 3,020 words long.
"said" is used only 5 times, and only 3 times to identify a speaker of dialogue.
I only used a variation of "said" once. It was "asked".
To be honest, I hate using those kinds of dialogue tags too, so I try to avoid using them. I find that describing what one character is doing or feeling in the same paragraph is enough to clarify who's speaking, like pionoplayer suggested.
But I'm not trying to tell you how to write your thing, just sharing.
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Post by Neptz on Aug 7, 2016 20:49:30 GMT
I roleplay, so the way I do it is that I usually make the character emote or do something (even when you're talking, you're at least doing something as well, not just sitting there). That enough is a good way to identify them. I don't think that just the way a character speaks is good enough, and if you rely on that to make your character unique, you're a lazy/uncreative writer. Not everyone speaks like a hillbilly.
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Writing
Aug 8, 2016 10:20:04 GMT
via mobile
Post by SpottedBlades on Aug 8, 2016 10:20:04 GMT
I don't see anything wrong with 'said' or 'asked'. As long as they're not used for every line and if they have some variation.
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Post by Neptz on Aug 8, 2016 16:16:37 GMT
It gets kind of repetitive and is also redundant. We know the character is saying something, you do not need to point it out with 'they said'
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thedude3445
Scampermaster
Homestuck? More like, Homo suck... oh wait...
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Post by thedude3445 on Aug 19, 2016 3:32:28 GMT
Excessive dialogue tags are a big problem in a lot of writing. Script-style dialogue probably isn't optimal for most stories (I've seen a few short stories do it well, but they were experimental already), but making sure readers don't get annoyed is the biggest issue to solve. If you're sure the reader can understand who's talking, then leave the dialogue tag out. It's harder when there's 3 or more characters actively speaking, but the more you write the more you'll be able to automatically figure out when it's necessary to add dialogue tags.
Also, extraneous dialogue tags are usually a gigantic no-no; said and asked are fine for almost any situation, though sometimes words like sighed, exclaimed, and a select few others are appropriate. Stuff like, "'I'm going to kill you,' he growled." is a sign of poor writing because it goes too far, assuming the reader doesn't understand the character's tone. If you think you need a dialogue tag to indicate the tone or mood of a character, you need to modify the dialogue or prose to do it instead.
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PlatinumUmbreon
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
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Post by PlatinumUmbreon on Aug 21, 2016 4:49:17 GMT
I have a pretty bad habit of using synonyms of "said" and "asked", haha. It's not like I think my readers are dumb, I just get bored writing "said" and "asked" over and over, and my inner vocabulary freak wants to change it up a bit with some high-leveled words.
I don't have this problem with quote chains, or at least I don't think I do. I doubt anyone is gonna get confused who is talking, and I usually let the readers know when a character joins the conversation. Even then, comment chains are rare, as I'm less dialogue-heavy and more action-oriented, so these dialogues tend to be to the point unless I'm doing character development or for other reasons.
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1412
Greentike
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Post by 1412 on Sept 2, 2016 1:46:42 GMT
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