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Post by Gab on Apr 9, 2017 13:58:52 GMT
I could easily see that being some kind of heresy to trolls, and probably lead to a lot of arguing. The highbloods are going to be furious if they're giving up their centuries-long lifespans, and if lowbloods in turn get long lifespans, other races such as humans might start making arguments that they deserve long lifespans for equality too, even though it's entirely unnatural to their species. And not just lifespan, but psychic powers?? Yeah, that could get messy.
Anyway, it could be that only carapacians have particularly mod-able dna, due to the circumstances and purpose of their creation, and the fact that maybe most of them are cloned anyway?? So they might not actually be able to do things that were unnatural to a race's typical limitations.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 10, 2017 7:28:01 GMT
I could easily see that being some kind of heresy to trolls, and probably lead to a lot of arguing. The highbloods are going to be furious if they're giving up their centuries-long lifespans, and if lowbloods in turn get long lifespans, other races such as humans might start making arguments that they deserve long lifespans for equality too, even though it's entirely unnatural to their species. And not just lifespan, but psychic powers?? Yeah, that could get messy. What highbloods? The highest blood left who isn't locked in a fridge or MIA is Terezi, and she don't give a shit. As for humans, there's probably more than a little interbreeding (if for no other reason than to keep a little more variety in that gene pool) anyway.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 10, 2017 10:58:20 GMT
I could easily see that being some kind of heresy to trolls, and probably lead to a lot of arguing. The highbloods are going to be furious if they're giving up their centuries-long lifespans, and if lowbloods in turn get long lifespans, other races such as humans might start making arguments that they deserve long lifespans for equality too, even though it's entirely unnatural to their species. And not just lifespan, but psychic powers?? Yeah, that could get messy. What highbloods? The highest blood left who isn't locked in a fridge or MIA is Terezi, and she don't give a shit. As for humans, there's probably more than a little interbreeding (if for no other reason than to keep a little more variety in that gene pool) anyway. I'm pretty sure that, through some unknown means, full gene pools for the Trolls and Humans were procured from somewhere. As proof, the Canon Fantrolls, descended from Earth C inhabitants, include a violet blood. The most likely explanation is the infrastructure left behind from the Condesce's rule of Earth. It's stated that at different times she was cloning both races, their genetics were probably on file somewhere. Either that, or Sburb's build-a-society kit sets come with equipment to generate new material to artificially broaden the gene pool.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 13:37:21 GMT
or offsprings` blood color isn't connected to that of the "parent" trolls
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 10, 2017 17:17:53 GMT
Why are the highbloods somehow more fit to rule? With their longer lifespan, they can have far more education and experience than a Lowblood. That's really the main difference. Then again, exactly how much experience is needed to be an effective politician? Which reminds me of another interesting point: If Highbloods are in charge, they would likely tend towards policies and plans that are very long-sighted. Things which, even if super effective, may never benefit any of the lowbloods around at the time of the policy's implementation. That's just the thing, even with much shorter lifespans, human leaders do just fine. ...Well ok, humans have a lot of political problems, but I don't see how longer lifespans would help those problems, and some problems, like corruption and stagnation, would be made even worse!
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Post by legendary on Apr 10, 2017 17:18:53 GMT
Sburb explicitly provides ectobiology machines for the purposes of getting enough DNA for a healthy society to a new universe. Jade and Kanaya talked about this.
GA: I Didnt Mean To Alarm You By Implying You Were Required To Wage A Great Deal Of Personal Procreation Over A Span Of Several Weeks GG: yeah, whew <_<; GA: Though It Should Be Clear That Repopulation Is Among Our Duties As Well In The Long Term GA: And Ive Gathered That The Cloning Apparatus In The Veil Is Probably Meant To Permit An Initial Boost On The World We Select For Settlement GA: But Beyond That It Is Up To The Descendants To Perpetuate The Race
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axolotlSushi
Scampermaster
Hi, my name is That Bastard
Posts: 215
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by axolotlSushi on Apr 10, 2017 18:39:59 GMT
I don't mean to interrupt, but if I'm not mistaken, the day of reckoning is almost upon us. (Shit, when did a whole year pass? This time last year I still had a working laptop. This time last year, I wasn't in college. THIS TIME LAST YEAR, I STILL WORE NEON PINK LIPSTICK. Anyway, I digress...)
Does anyone have any thoughts about what we might see? Or, has this topic been exhausted already, and are we just sitting ducks? I still intend to re-read the whole comic, but for some reason, I don't see that happening within the three days provided. At least, not without skipping all of my classes, ditching all of my chores, completely foregoing sleep, and flaunting all of my internet restrictions. So, instead, I think I'll just wear my 3am dress. Not sure how I'll wear that casually, but I'll make it work.
Also, are any of you guys planning to do anything special as well? Just curious.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 10, 2017 18:53:47 GMT
Does anyone have any thoughts about what we might see? Well, Andrew's latest news post suggests that all we might get for 4/13 is the We Love Fine thing going on right now. Now that I'm on the subject of We Love Fine, god I love them more and more every day. The amount of new Homestuck products they've been bringing out is simply ridiculous, and there's so much good stuff! In other news, today is the 8th birthday of the Homestuck Beta! Daaaaaaaaaaaang.
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Post by heyitskane on Apr 10, 2017 21:30:24 GMT
Let's be real here, the fact that hussie said nothings happening on 4/13 is enough to infer that a ton of stuff is happening on 4/13.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2017 3:33:34 GMT
What highbloods? The highest blood left who isn't locked in a fridge or MIA is Terezi, and she don't give a shit. As for humans, there's probably more than a little interbreeding (if for no other reason than to keep a little more variety in that gene pool) anyway. I'm pretty sure that, through some unknown means, full gene pools for the Trolls and Humans were procured from somewhere. As proof, the Canon Fantrolls, descended from Earth C inhabitants, include a violet blood. The most likely explanation is the infrastructure left behind from the Condesce's rule of Earth. It's stated that at different times she was cloning both races, their genetics were probably on file somewhere. Either that, or Sburb's build-a-society kit sets come with equipment to generate new material to artificially broaden the gene pool. My point was that there aren't any full grown high blood trolls around at the time of the ectobiologizing to voice their dissent, so if the kids and trolls wanted to mess around and make high and low bloods have the same life span, there'd be nobody to get mad at them about it. Let's be real here, the fact that hussie said nothings happening on 4/13 is enough to infer that a ton of stuff is happening on 4/13. *laughs* Yeah, I'd love if that were the case.
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Post by ashercrane on Apr 11, 2017 5:23:45 GMT
I'm pretty sure that, through some unknown means, full gene pools for the Trolls and Humans were procured from somewhere. As proof, the Canon Fantrolls, descended from Earth C inhabitants, include a violet blood. The most likely explanation is the infrastructure left behind from the Condesce's rule of Earth. It's stated that at different times she was cloning both races, their genetics were probably on file somewhere. Either that, or Sburb's build-a-society kit sets come with equipment to generate new material to artificially broaden the gene pool. My point was that there aren't any full grown high blood trolls around at the time of the ectobiologizing to voice their dissent, so if the kids and trolls wanted to mess around and make high and low bloods have the same life span, there'd be nobody to get mad at them about it. Let's be real here, the fact that hussie said nothings happening on 4/13 is enough to infer that a ton of stuff is happening on 4/13. *laughs* Yeah, I'd love if that were the case. They'd have to equalize population numbers, since shortening lifespans could lead to points where no highbloods exist, or, depending on how troll reproduction works, cause several higher castes to go extinct entirely. Then you'd have to equalize psychic powers and strength, since if the lowbloods had greater psychic powers, they could oppress the highbloods, and if you equalize that, the highbloods would have the advantage with their greater strength. In other words, in order to force equality among blood castes, you'd have to neutralize every effect blood makes, forcing blood color to mean absolutely nothing.
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Post by Gab on Apr 11, 2017 21:41:13 GMT
My point was that there aren't any full grown high blood trolls around at the time of the ectobiologizing to voice their dissent, so if the kids and trolls wanted to mess around and make high and low bloods have the same life span, there'd be nobody to get mad at them about it. ... Except for the highbloods. That's what I meant in the first place when I said that. I wasn't just referring to Gamzee, or the creators or leaders of the society. I meant everyone.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 11, 2017 22:01:20 GMT
My point was that there aren't any full grown high blood trolls around at the time of the ectobiologizing to voice their dissent, so if the kids and trolls wanted to mess around and make high and low bloods have the same life span, there'd be nobody to get mad at them about it. *laughs* Yeah, I'd love if that were the case. They'd have to equalize population numbers, since shortening lifespans could lead to points where no highbloods exist, or, depending on how troll reproduction works, cause several higher castes to go extinct entirely. I'm not sure why that would be the case unless you're entertaining the idea that high bloods, due to their long lifespan, don't sexually mature until later in their lives, the window from which they can safely reproduce is when they're much older than low bloods, or they're just less fertile than same. And even if that were the case, that would be something you could fix with ectobiology. Which is to say I don't think equalizing the lifespans would cause that much trouble, but even if it did, what trouble there was you could fix. Then you'd have to equalize psychic powers and strength, since if the lowbloods had greater psychic powers, they could oppress the highbloods, and if you equalize that, the highbloods would have the advantage with their greater strength. In other words, in order to force equality among blood castes, you'd have to neutralize every effect blood makes, forcing blood color to mean absolutely nothing. While low bloods like Sollux, Aradia, and Tavros have some rather impressive psychic powers, the high bloods have some interesting ones of their own. Kanaya's caste is hinted to be the most likely to turn to rainbow drinking, Vriska's has her manipulation, Equius' his strength and Gamzee his chucklevoodoos. The only caste that might be in trouble would be the fish trolls, but just by nature of being sea dwellers they always have an out. The advantage the low bloods had (which was always negated by the high bloods' superior fire power, chucklevoodoos and the Handmaid) was pure numbers. You take that and the high bloods' fire power away and things are a lot more equal. My point was that there aren't any full grown high blood trolls around at the time of the ectobiologizing to voice their dissent, so if the kids and trolls wanted to mess around and make high and low bloods have the same life span, there'd be nobody to get mad at them about it. ... Except for the highbloods. That's what I meant in the first place when I said that. I wasn't just referring to Gamzee, or the creators or leaders of the society. I meant everyone. Why would they be mad? If there were high bloods born from ectobiology with shorter lifespans than their ancestors, they won't ever have known any different, so there'd be no reason for them to get pissed. And even if they found out about their ancestors and they did, high bloods wouldn't be the unquestioned rulers of the winners' new world anyway so too bad for them. And that's only if they shorten the high bloods' life span instead of just jacking the fuck out of the low bloods' lifespan. If they just made it so low bloods lived longer there'd be no reason for anybody to be pissed.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 12, 2017 14:16:50 GMT
Then you'd have to equalize psychic powers and strength, since if the lowbloods had greater psychic powers, they could oppress the highbloods, and if you equalize that, the highbloods would have the advantage with their greater strength. In other words, in order to force equality among blood castes, you'd have to neutralize every effect blood makes, forcing blood color to mean absolutely nothing. While low bloods like Sollux, Aradia, and Tavros have some rather impressive psychic powers, the high bloods have some interesting ones of their own. Kanaya's caste is hinted to be the most likely to turn to rainbow drinking, Vriska's has her manipulation, Equius' his strength and Gamzee his chucklevoodoos. The only caste that might be in trouble would be the fish trolls, but just by nature of being sea dwellers they always have an out. The advantage the low bloods had (which was always negated by the high bloods' superior fire power, chucklevoodoos and the Handmaid) was pure numbers. You take that and the high bloods' fire power away and things are a lot more equal. I believe it was explicitly stated that lowbloods are more likely to get psychic powers than highbloods, though I forget exactly where. It should be noted that Equius' strength and Vriska's powers were specific to themselves and their ancestors, not something common amongst their blood caste, and Kanaya originally thought of rainbow drinkers as a myth, meaning it must not be particularly common. Actually, thinking about psychic powers and how they affect the struggle of power reminded me of something notable to the discussion of highbloods potentially dying out with shorter lifespans: The limebloods. Them having been hunted to extinction provides definitive proof that a particular blood color does have to contribute to the mother grub in order for babies of that color to be born...
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Post by Gab on Apr 12, 2017 16:18:34 GMT
Why would they be mad? If there were high bloods born from ectobiology with shorter lifespans than their ancestors, they won't ever have known any different, so there'd be no reason for them to get pissed. And even if they found out about their ancestors and they did, high bloods wouldn't be the unquestioned rulers of the winners' new world anyway so too bad for them. Oh, we're arguing this happened at the very start of the breeding? I was kind of thinking it was a hypothetical thing that happened in between the beginning and 5000 CE. In that case, I somehow doubt the creators managed to have that debate with only four trolls present, AND mess with the ectobiology sufficiently to create only these genetic differences with no other anomalies, while recreating the other races with no changes. EDIT: And for that matter, that the mother grub created by Roxy would also be compatible with this modified troll species.
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Post by ashercrane on Apr 12, 2017 16:49:53 GMT
While low bloods like Sollux, Aradia, and Tavros have some rather impressive psychic powers, the high bloods have some interesting ones of their own. Kanaya's caste is hinted to be the most likely to turn to rainbow drinking, Vriska's has her manipulation, Equius' his strength and Gamzee his chucklevoodoos. The only caste that might be in trouble would be the fish trolls, but just by nature of being sea dwellers they always have an out. The advantage the low bloods had (which was always negated by the high bloods' superior fire power, chucklevoodoos and the Handmaid) was pure numbers. You take that and the high bloods' fire power away and things are a lot more equal. I believe it was explicitly stated that lowbloods are more likely to get psychic powers than highbloods, though I forget exactly where. It should be noted that Equius' strength and Vriska's powers were specific to themselves and their ancestors, not something common amongst their blood caste, and Kanaya originally thought of rainbow drinkers a myth, meaning it must not be particularly common to say the least. Actually, thinking about psychic powers and how they affect the struggle of power reminded me of something notable to the discussion of highbloods potentially dying out with shorter lifespans: The limebloods. Them having been hunted to extinction provides definitive proof that a particular blood color does have to contribute to the mother grub in order for babies of that color to be born... Exactly. Highbloods must have a significantly lower birthrate for the low population they have compared the lowbloods. Therefore, their long lifespans are the only way they can give their genes to the mother grub to keep them alive. Therefore, remove the long lifespans without evening reproduction rate, than the higher bloods die off.
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Post by Gab on Apr 12, 2017 19:46:23 GMT
Hey I know it's stupidly short notice but was anyone planning on doing the orange ribbon thing this year? You think if we spread the word fast enough it would happen? It's just kind of a last minute thing I thought of that I remember from the old days.
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phantos
Moppet of Destiny
『HARD TIMES』
Posts: 115
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by phantos on Apr 13, 2017 0:36:26 GMT
But what IS the orange ribbon thing? It looks like a fun community event? Where am I going to find orange at this hour?
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 13, 2017 1:41:51 GMT
Yeah what's the orange ribbon thing.
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Post by gitaxian on Apr 13, 2017 2:05:50 GMT
It's simple: Hometsuck fans wear orange ribbons to identify each other by.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 13, 2017 2:07:13 GMT
While low bloods like Sollux, Aradia, and Tavros have some rather impressive psychic powers, the high bloods have some interesting ones of their own. Kanaya's caste is hinted to be the most likely to turn to rainbow drinking, Vriska's has her manipulation, Equius' his strength and Gamzee his chucklevoodoos. The only caste that might be in trouble would be the fish trolls, but just by nature of being sea dwellers they always have an out. The advantage the low bloods had (which was always negated by the high bloods' superior fire power, chucklevoodoos and the Handmaid) was pure numbers. You take that and the high bloods' fire power away and things are a lot more equal. I believe it was explicitly stated that lowbloods are more likely to get psychic powers than highbloods, though I forget exactly where. If that is the case, it might just be because there are so many more low bloods than high bloods. Bigger sample size = more chance for powers to show up. It should be noted that Equius' strength and Vriska's powers were specific to themselves and their ancestors, not something common amongst their blood caste, and Kanaya originally thought of rainbow drinkers as a myth, meaning it must not be particularly common. I remember that Equius' was described as 'kind of a freak' but my interpretation was that he was stronger than a normal member of his caste would be, which would still be pretty strong. Same for Vriska and Aranea. Rainbow Drinkers were common enough that there were trashy books written about them and both Kanaya and her ancestor became them. Plus Jade bloods are supposed to grow up to live in the caverns to assist the Mothergrub, so even if there were a crap ton of Rainbow Drinkers out there, it's unlikely your average troll would run into them that often. I believe it was explicitly stated that lowbloods are more likely to get psychic powers than highbloods, though I forget exactly where. It should be noted that Equius' strength and Vriska's powers were specific to themselves and their ancestors, not something common amongst their blood caste, and Kanaya originally thought of rainbow drinkers a myth, meaning it must not be particularly common to say the least. Actually, thinking about psychic powers and how they affect the struggle of power reminded me of something notable to the discussion of highbloods potentially dying out with shorter lifespans: The limebloods. Them having been hunted to extinction provides definitive proof that a particular blood color does have to contribute to the mother grub in order for babies of that color to be born... Exactly. Highbloods must have a significantly lower birthrate for the low population they have compared the lowbloods. Therefore, their long lifespans are the only way they can give their genes to the mother grub to keep them alive. Therefore, remove the long lifespans without evening reproduction rate, than the higher bloods die off. Even if that were the case, if we're assuming ectobiology can equalize the various troll caste's life times, then we could probably assume it could equalize their rate of birth as well. Why would they be mad? If there were high bloods born from ectobiology with shorter lifespans than their ancestors, they won't ever have known any different, so there'd be no reason for them to get pissed. And even if they found out about their ancestors and they did, high bloods wouldn't be the unquestioned rulers of the winners' new world anyway so too bad for them. Oh, we're arguing this happened at the very start of the breeding? I was kind of thinking it was a hypothetical thing that happened in between the beginning and 5000 CE. In that case, I somehow doubt the creators managed to have that debate with only four trolls present, AND mess with the ectobiology sufficiently to create only these genetic differences with no other anomalies, while recreating the other races with no changes. EDIT: And for that matter, that the mother grub created by Roxy would also be compatible with this modified troll species. Well I mean we are debating whether a fictional race of aliens can be re-created using either the drone queen that bears them all or time gloop. Ectobiology was never given hard and fast rules about what it can or cannot do in terms of genetics, so I don't see what's so unreasonable about assuming it could be used to make some changes, or that that could be done in conjunction with the Mothergrub. And I don't see why they couldn't have that debate. They've got all the time in the multiverse to argue and plan over what they want to do about the future of their various species, and the trolls that are there are the only ones left to speak for how they want they're people to be developed, so why shouldn't they? And they've similarly got all the time in the multiverse to fuck around with their ectobiological goop to get it exactly how they want it. Let's hope for some significant game news tomorrow.
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Post by Gab on Apr 13, 2017 3:35:38 GMT
And I don't see why they couldn't have that debate. They've got all the time in the multiverse to argue and plan over what they want to do about the future of their various species, and the trolls that are there are the only ones left to speak for how they want they're people to be developed, so why shouldn't they? And they've similarly got all the time in the multiverse to fuck around with their ectobiological goop to get it exactly how they want it. It's pretty clear they didn't do that, though. They showed up, cloned themselves a bunch of times, then left the babies with the carapacians and skipped to the future. Of course I know how you are and you'll just tell me because we didn't get a crystal clear breakdown of every action they took and exactly how long it took to do it means I can't say it didn't happen. Never mind that an argument needs to actually employ logical reasoning and not just exploit loopholes on uncertainty to stay afloat. So I'm not about to pull my hair out arguing with you over that. Don't act like because Homestuck has some silly things in it it doesn't have a grounded logic to its systems and patterns. You know better than that. But anyway, I was only arguing it was unlikely the creators actually did that. I was not saying the very act is infeasible. In fact, we know for a fact ectobiology involves not just cloning, but dna tweaking, so such a thing would in fact be very much possible. It wouldn't be a cakewalk I imagine, but more than feasible. Honestly, I feel like that's the less interesting part of the whole argument. Something potentially interesting ( ?) I noticed today when I went on mspa mobile, it seems like the spacing is a little different from how it looks on my computer. On mobile, post canon falls outside of either side 2 or disc 3 supercartridge, rather fittingly being entirely outside any comic subdivision. This may be an honest coincidence, because the other markers kind of look obviously skewed from where they should be, with it getting worse the further down it goes. But I guess I thought it was worth mentioning.
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Post by badatnames on Apr 13, 2017 4:01:59 GMT
Welp, I'm signing off for the night.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 13, 2017 14:37:41 GMT
Welp, I'm signing off for the night. What? What are you talking about deud
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 13, 2017 16:54:55 GMT
Happy 4/13 everyone!!! Even if we don't get anything else today, I'm still very excited about the We Love Fine thing reaching its climax, and same thing with MSPA Madness. Both of these have definitely been building up my hype level for 4/13! Other than that I'll be celebrating 4/13 by doing the same thing as the rest of the year, being here and continuing my Homestuck-related projects. And to be honest, if that's "all" 4/13 will be this year, then I'll be fine with that. Anything else that does happen today will/would be a happy surprise!
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