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Post by Gab on Apr 13, 2017 17:07:36 GMT
I don't know why the light is so blown out like that. I tried to mess with the levels but it just wouldn't look right so whatever.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 13, 2017 21:17:10 GMT
Oh my fucking god. This is the frickin best. That Grimdark Rose dress!!! Hope hoodie!!! Zip-up hoodies (including Hope for the first time ever, right?)!!! SBAHJ MERCHANDISE.
AND A SHITTY AS FUCK SBAHJ GAME.
The “bug report” tops it all off.
We Love Fine, you are the best.
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Post by heyitskane on Apr 14, 2017 2:22:32 GMT
Oh wow look at that more hiveswap that isn't being released
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 14, 2017 3:42:25 GMT
And I don't see why they couldn't have that debate. They've got all the time in the multiverse to argue and plan over what they want to do about the future of their various species, and the trolls that are there are the only ones left to speak for how they want they're people to be developed, so why shouldn't they? And they've similarly got all the time in the multiverse to fuck around with their ectobiological goop to get it exactly how they want it. It's pretty clear they didn't do that, though. They showed up, cloned themselves a bunch of times, then left the babies with the carapacians and skipped to the future. Of course I know how you are and you'll just tell me because we didn't get a crystal clear breakdown of every action they took and exactly how long it took to do it means I can't say it didn't happen. Never mind that an argument needs to actually employ logical reasoning and not just exploit loopholes on uncertainty to stay afloat. So I'm not about to pull my hair out arguing with you over that. This is why it's fun arguing with you. Because you make other people's debate skills look good by, for reasons apparent to no one, least of all me, feeling the need to insult people. Makes me feel better about myself when I worry that I'm not an effective debater. And yes, god forbid anyone should ever want proof of anything. (Would also like to point out that in terms of the ending? I was not the only one clamoring for more info, and Hussie himself apparently saw that as justified, hence the snap chats. So if you're referring to that in particular, I'd say time has vindicated those of us who asked for more out of Homestuck's ending.) Whether or not the had the debate is besides the point anyway. The point being argued was that they could potentially fuck around with the troll castes' with ectobiology. Whether they debated or not beforehand is kind of moot, although it's certainly something I would recommend. Hell, I was even the one asking who would want to debate that and why, since any high blood castes that might object to equalization of the gene pool are either dead, locked in a fridge or no where to be found. Well I mean we are debating whether a fictional race of aliens can be re-created using either the drone queen that bears them all or time gloop. Ectobiology was never given hard and fast rules about what it can or cannot do in terms of genetics, so I don't see what's so unreasonable about assuming it could be used to make some changes, or that that could be done in conjunction with the Mothergrub. Don't act like because Homestuck has some silly things in it it doesn't have a grounded logic to its systems and patterns. You know better than that. This applies to many things in Homestuck, but not all things in Homestuck. Time travel and the way it works in Homestuck? Convoluted but consistent and logical, at the very least for the most part. Ectobiology? That's never been 100% spelled out. We all know damn well that while Homestuck has an impressive amount of things in which a lot of thought was put, there are some things that we were....asked not to think too hard about, more or less.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 14, 2017 17:06:54 GMT
I believe it was explicitly stated that lowbloods are more likely to get psychic powers than highbloods, though I forget exactly where. If that is the case, it might just be because there are so many more low bloods than high bloods. Bigger sample size = more chance for powers to show up. I think what was said is that the lowbloods are "more psychicly capable" or something like that, so not just mere quantity. I'd have to find where that was said again to know for sure, though. But why do you believe that? What evidence has the comic given that this is the case? Humans have lots of trashy books written about vampires, yet for humans, Vampires are even less than uncommon, they're nonexistant! And unless there's practically no communication between the brooding caves and the outside world, you'd think the presence of a large numver of rainbow drinkers would be known as fact rather than treated as a myth.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 14, 2017 18:30:52 GMT
Just putting this here as a reminder to keep the discussion civilized. For the most part this thread is doing pretty good, but I've seen a few posts get a little more heated lately so please be careful with that! Let's keep this fun for everyone despite all the disagreements. Anyway, while this entire topic of equalizing lowbloods and highbloods in Universe C has been a pretty interesting topic to explore, we've filled almost 3 pages with it in the past 10 days. I'm not saying to stop the discussion about it, it is really interesting, but let's not forget we can also still talk about other things! For instance, here's something I've been thinking about: how do you think Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite died in the Game Over timeline, while Nannasprite, Jaspersprite and Davesprite got out without a scratch, even though they were all last seen in the same location prior to Game Over (on LOTAK)? Did they get erased through the retcon? Did they get killed when LOMAX crashed into LOTAK? Is it the same Eridan and Equius we see during [S] Terezi: Remem8er? I just had an interesting thought: part of the GAME OVER flash was pretty much the continuation/resolution to Horrorstuck from Act 5 Act 2, as Karkat, Terezi and Kanaya finally confronted Gamzee for real for his deeds. Meanwhile, from the perspective of Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite, we got a continuation of their Horrorstuck as they talked to each other and Fefetasprite about those events. But then Fefetasprite exploded. Back when that originally happened, I thought Arquiusprite and Erisolsprite were going to get REALLY angry at each other for causing Fefetasprite to explode. But instead we didn't really get a proper reaction to that anymore, and next time we see Erisolsprite he's at LOTAK with the other Sprites shortly before GAME OVER. I just had this crazy thought: what if during the events of GAME OVER, when basically all conflicts in the session were exploding and reaching their thrilling conclusion, what if in the meantime the same thing was happening with Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite? Like, I could imagine that Nannasprite, Jaspersprite and Davesprite had just wandered off again (and would then later turn up safe on LOWAS), but that Erisolsprite decided to then and there confront Arquiusprite in battle. I mean, inside Erisolsprite there are two Trolls who have had some quite mentally unstable moments, one of which already went into a murderous rampage. And while in general Erisolsprite had been pretty 'relaxed' (though full of hate for everything), who's to say that the bomb within him wouldn't explode at some point? And what better moment for that to explode then during GAME OVER, when basically everyone's emotional conflicts were reaching their boiling points? Of course that's all just speculation, but I'm pretty interested to hear what you guys think about it.
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Post by gitaxian on Apr 14, 2017 18:49:03 GMT
Only people who were on LOWAS at the time escaped being erased from the retcon. Presumably they just never went to LOWAS like the other sprites.
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Post by legendary on Apr 14, 2017 23:00:33 GMT
Note that Davesprite, Jaspersprite and Nannasprite didn't go to LOWAS. They were carried there by the wind John kicked up. If that wind didn't grab Erisol- and Arquisprite *and* they were still alive at the time, then the comic is extra dickish for it.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 14, 2017 23:43:15 GMT
I reckon Erisol did survive, he just finally embraced being the apathetic misanthrope he was destined to be and just avoided all the drama that was happening.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2017 6:01:53 GMT
okay, the bug report joke got me here, i admit
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 15, 2017 13:39:17 GMT
okay, the bug report joke got me here, i admit Bro what are you even talking about
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Post by Gab on Apr 15, 2017 20:32:14 GMT
Back when that originally happened, I thought Arquiusprite and Erisolsprite were going to get REALLY angry at each other for causing Fefetasprite to explode. But instead we didn't really get a proper reaction to that anymore, and next time we see Erisolsprite he's at LOTAK with the other Sprites shortly before GAME OVER. Interesting perspective, that makes sense. It's not too surprising that, all things considered, they wouldn't really think much about 'killing' Fefeta. When you're already a ghost, dying loses a lot of meaning. To them, they know Feferi and Nepeta just went back to the dream bubbles, no big. (And of course this is exactly what we saw) Also, now that you mention it, I noticed that all the B1 session sprites survived the retcon except for Jade, and all the B2 sprites didn't. Tavrisprite obviously blew up immediately, and Fefetasprite did shortly before Game Over. The only ones otherwise unaccounted for are Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite, neither of which show up again. Erisolsprite I could easily see passively accepting his demise in the chaos of Game Over. Arquiusprite might make some attempt to survive, but I imagine he ceased to exist along with the rest of the timeline when it was overwritten. While it would be interesting to imagine Erisol and Arquius fighting, there's no real natural conflict there. Like I said, they wouldn't really be all that angry at each other for what happened to Fefeta. It was more of a light tiff than something unconscionable. That would be why we didn't really see them. Their deaths weren't terribly notable. Poor minor characters. Note that Davesprite, Jaspersprite and Nannasprite didn't go to LOWAS. They were carried there by the wind John kicked up. Is that what happened? I suppose I must have missed that detail. On the subject of new subjects, I was thinking about the nature of the furthest ring again. Typically I think of it as a realm where time and space have no meaning. E.g. remarks made by Aranea, Rose's "presently, already, and still to come" line, etc. I think thinking of it in ONLY that was was a bit simplistic of me though. In examination, there is a clear chronology to the realm, a topography of sorts. This is the place where all sessions in existence are, as well as the green sun. Objects like these and others have a fixed location, and a point of time before, during, and after they exist. Cause and effect exist. It's just all knotted up and incomprehensible at its surface. It's not that time and space are irrelevant or don't exist. They just behave in a warped, confusing fashion.
I have another thought on this. It seems like there's no such thing as a doomed timeline in the furthest room. Granted, it can be hard to tell, but the presence of doomed persons in the dream bubbles, and the fact the retcon apparently didn't undo the existence of Vriska and presumably other details of the pre-retcon version of events which took place in the furthest ring, suggest this. Which makes a certain sort of sense. In a realm like this, so vast and vacant, there's precious little temporal conflict or need for paradoxes like in more compact, stable dimensions. Thus instead of multiple timelines existing together, aspects of different timelines simply exist together.
I used to think it was extremely noteworthy that the cracks created by Lord English established linearity around the area. And it's still noteworthy that they're capable of... existing to begin with. Actually though, that's probably a fairly regular quality of anything which exists in the furthest ring, like any given session. It just happened to be convenient for the trolls on their quest for the treasure.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2017 6:30:15 GMT
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Post by plainWonder on Apr 16, 2017 16:47:35 GMT
While all forms of government are susceptible to corruption, I think an Alternian style caste system where highbloods get absolute power is especially prone to abuse. Even if their starting intentions are innocent, you can't say "this class of people are unfit to rule" without that sort of superiority complex becoming ingrained in the culture. You would get, at BEST, a super condescending Beforan system where the lowbloods are treated as lesser beings who need to be coddled and protected. (And you can rationalize a lot of awful, awful shit by saying it's "for your own good".) A fair, stable system can't run without all of its members getting a voice. Even the most benevolent caste system imaginable will decay into opression given time, and that's when the rebellions start. You know, even though they're the same species and compatible reproduction wise, I think the internal conflicts between high and lowbloods might be very similar to elves vs. humans in Middle Earth. But why do you believe that? What evidence has the comic given that this is the case? I presume because a designated profession for indigobloods is archery, and you have to be STRONG to handle a longbow. (Ah, been too long since I got to capitalize "strong" for a good reason.) Depends on how well-spread knowledge was on Alternia amongst the populace of kids. Young children and dry history/sociology facts? Don't mix that well. here's something I've been thinking about: how do you think Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite died in the Game Over timeline, while Nannasprite, Jaspersprite and Davesprite got out without a scratch, even though they were all last seen in the same location prior to Game Over (on LOTAK)? Did they get erased through the retcon? Did they get killed when LOMAX crashed into LOTAK? Is it the same Eridan and Equius we see during [S] Terezi: Remem8er?
I just had an interesting thought: part of the GAME OVER flash was pretty much the continuation/resolution to Horrorstuck from Act 5 Act 2, as Karkat, Terezi and Kanaya finally confronted Gamzee for real for his deeds.
Meanwhile, from the perspective of Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite, we got a continuation of their Horrorstuck as they talked to each other and Fefetasprite about those events.
But then Fefetasprite exploded.
Back when that originally happened, I thought Arquiusprite and Erisolsprite were going to get REALLY angry at each other for causing Fefetasprite to explode. But instead we didn't really get a proper reaction to that anymore, and next time we see Erisolsprite he's at LOTAK with the other Sprites shortly before GAME OVER.
I just had this crazy thought: what if during the events of GAME OVER, when basically all conflicts in the session were exploding and reaching their thrilling conclusion, what if in the meantime the same thing was happening with Erisolsprite and Arquiusprite?
Like, I could imagine that Nannasprite, Jaspersprite and Davesprite had just wandered off again (and would then later turn up safe on LOWAS), but that Erisolsprite decided to then and there confront Arquiusprite in battle.
I mean, inside Erisolsprite there are two Trolls who have had some quite mentally unstable moments, one of which already went into a murderous rampage. And while in general Erisolsprite had been pretty 'relaxed' (though full of hate for everything), who's to say that the bomb within him wouldn't explode at some point?
And what better moment for that to explode then during GAME OVER, when basically everyone's emotional conflicts were reaching their boiling points? It would've been interesting to have Arquius and Erisol duke it out, especially because they could've held a rooftopbattle on Dirk's house, and between Erisol's eyebeams and Arquius' STRENGTH, it would've been a sight to behold. Plus, if Arquiusprite was destroyed, chances are there would be a Hal Strider ghost in the dreambubbles. Imagine him first reliving a memory as a pair of shades, and then him manifesting a ghost body akin to the canon sprite in [S] MSPA Reader: Mental Breakdown. Plus, imagine him remembering he died - and Hal's red eye lights turning white... Note that Davesprite, Jaspersprite and Nannasprite didn't go to LOWAS. They were carried there by the wind John kicked up. If that wind didn't grab Erisol- and Arquisprite *and* they were still alive at the time, then the comic is extra dickish for it. Are you sure about that? It doesn't sound familiar. Could it be you're referencing something from the Act 8 or Act Omega fanventures there? Not sure because I haven't read them.
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Post by ashercrane on Apr 16, 2017 19:17:01 GMT
Actually, a direct quote from the comic:
"Lusus milk is the secret to being STRONG.
Actually it isn't. You like to think that though. The truth is you're really strong because you're kind of a freak."
He probably wouldn't be calling himself a freak for it if it wasn't atypical.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 17, 2017 5:27:57 GMT
But why do you believe that? What evidence has the comic given that this is the case? Because while Karkat's candy red blood is specifically noted to be a mutation, Equius's strength and the Serkets' manipulation abilities are not noted as being particularly weird glitches in the same way. And....unless they were caused by something Karkat did with the groups' ectobiology (which, if I'm remembering correctly, is never so much as hinted) then the simplest conclusion we can draw is that it's a characteristic of their respective castes. Especially conisdering we know at least one higher blood caste has an ability unique to their blood: Gamzee. So it's not like abilities like that are unheard of in anybody above Kanaya on the ladder. And really, if Vriska's was a unique ability, there's no way she wouldn't mention that every chance she could. Humans have lots of trashy books written about vampires, yet for humans, Vampires are even less than uncommon, they're nonexistant! And unless there's practically no communication between the brooding caves and the outside world, you'd think the presence of a large numver of rainbow drinkers would be known as fact rather than treated as a myth. That's not exactly entirely true. While Vampires themselves are nonexistent, the legend is based on very real things. Vampire bats for one. Dracula himself was based on Vlad the Impaler. And I would not be surprised if there's no communication between people in the caverns and the outside world. Forbidding contact so that the Jade bloods could concentrate solely on their work sounds like the sort of dickish shit Meenah would pull.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 17, 2017 6:42:52 GMT
Because while Karkat's candy red blood is specifically noted to be a mutation, Equius's strength and the Serkets' manipulation abilities are not noted as being particularly weird glitches in the same way. And....unless they were caused by something Karkat did with the groups' ectobiology (which, if I'm remembering correctly, is never so much as hinted) then the simplest conclusion we can draw is that it's a characteristic of their respective castes. Especially conisdering we know at least one higher blood caste has an ability unique to their blood: Gamzee. So it's not like abilities like that are unheard of in anybody above Kanaya on the ladder. And really, if Vriska's was a unique ability, there's no way she wouldn't mention that every chance she could. ashercrane already cited Equius being a freak. As for the Serkets: ARANEA: I can see why it can drive some with my a8ilities to a8use the powers. ARANEA: Fortunately I was a8le to resist the temptation. JAKE: So there are people on your planet who do that? ARANEA: On the world I was from, it was rare. Only a few criminals and outcasts would. Aranea confirms that enough people have her sort of power that the rare amount of abusers are well known. I can't find it at the moment, but I swear there was another passage somewhere that clearly stated that mind control was a rare, but not unheard of, cerulean thing.
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Post by heirloomairloom on Apr 17, 2017 11:08:12 GMT
Vriska had this to say about the demographics of psychic powers:
VRISKA: She's spent centuries upgrading her a8ilities which now include 8OTH kinds of telekinesis. The simpler variety more common to rust 8loods, and the nasty kind which sometimes yellow 8looded mutants have involving all the fucking eye lasers and shit. VRISKA: If that weren't enough, she has a mix of telepathic a8ilities too, like mine, plus the animal communion kind more typical of 8rown 8loods.
Of course, knowing that telekinesis is most common to rust bloods doesn't tell us anything about how many rust bloods have telekinesis. "Most people with sickle cell anemia are black" doesn't imply "Most black people have sickle cell anemia." Of note are the fact that Vriska confirms other blood castes can have Aradia's telekinesis and Tavros's power, that apparently only mutants can have Sollux's eye lasers, and mind control is the only power she doesn't explicitly tie to a blood color.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 17, 2017 14:51:33 GMT
But why do you believe that? What evidence has the comic given that this is the case? I presume because a designated profession for indigobloods is archery, and you have to be STRONG to handle a longbow. (Ah, been too long since I got to capitalize "strong" for a good reason.) It's true that you have to be strong to handle a longbow, it is not true that you have to be STRONG to handle a longbow. Even humans, none of which have mutant strength, can handle longbows. But why do you believe that? What evidence has the comic given that this is the case? Because while Karkat's candy red blood is specifically noted to be a mutation, Equius's strength and the Serkets' manipulation abilities are not noted as being particularly weird glitches in the same way. And....unless they were caused by something Karkat did with the groups' ectobiology (which, if I'm remembering correctly, is never so much as hinted) then the simplest conclusion we can draw is that it's a characteristic of their respective castes. Especially conisdering we know at least one higher blood caste has an ability unique to their blood: Gamzee. So it's not like abilities like that are unheard of in anybody above Kanaya on the ladder. And really, if Vriska's was a unique ability, there's no way she wouldn't mention that every chance she could. Regarding Equius, as others have mentioned, he has been described as "kind of a freak" because of his strength. As for Vriska, I was going to say that just because her powers aren't unique doesn't mean they're tied to blood caste, but I'm beginning to doubt that myself; with so many other powers being caste-specific, it's likely mind control is that way too. That said it is implied to be a rare ability, so even if it's not unique, that doesn't mean it's common. This is unlike, say, Sollux's blood color where it seems all of them have his powers. Humans have lots of trashy books written about vampires, yet for humans, Vampires are even less than uncommon, they're nonexistant! And unless there's practically no communication between the brooding caves and the outside world, you'd think the presence of a large numver of rainbow drinkers would be known as fact rather than treated as a myth. That's not exactly entirely true. While Vampires themselves are nonexistent, the legend is based on very real things. Vampire bats for one. Dracula himself was based on Vlad the Impaler. It's true that all myths are ultimately based on real things, and of course rainbow drinkers would be the same way for trolls, but we're straying from my point. I mentioned that rainbow drinkers are seen as a myth because it means they are apparently so unknown that people believe them to be fictional, which would not be the case if they were documented fact. Depends on how well-spread knowledge was on Alternia amongst the populace of kids. Young children and dry history/sociology facts? Don't mix that well. And I would not be surprised if there's no communication between people in the caverns and the outside world. Forbidding contact so that the Jade bloods could concentrate solely on their work sounds like the sort of dickish shit Meenah would pull. Ok, fine, I'll concede that it's possible that rainbow drinkers are quite common, just not known by those of Alternia for one of the above reasons. But being possible doesn't mean it's nessesarily true, and I have yet to see evidence implying that it is.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 17, 2017 21:54:54 GMT
Just for the sake of complete info: in her journal, Mindfang describes the Summoner's animal communion powers as 'rare' so while lowbloods such as him frequently have psychic powers, it seems that specific kind of power is quite rare.
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Post by Gab on Apr 18, 2017 1:47:36 GMT
Ooh, speaking of psychic powers.
While it's not made clear exactly how the breakdown works, there is some crossover in various mental abilities. For instance, Aradia is capable of putting Sollux to sleep, and Sollux is capable of communing with/putting his bees to sleep. Additionally, Aradia and Sollux could hear the voices of others based on certain conditions, and apparently both always knew how their conversations together would go, due to being psychic.
The pattern suggested by caste is that the lowbloods are the ones more commonly given psychic powers, while its rarer in highbloods (with the possible exception of the indigos and their chucklevoodoos). Other aberrations may or may not be caste specific, such as rainbow drinkers and above-average strength in bluebloods. Related to that, it seems as though, in general, highbloods are pretty resolute. Vriska regained consciousness and was able to remain relatively stable for several minutes while bleeding out. And Gamzee... well that goes without saying. In fact, his supernatural resilience may be above-average for his caste as well. It seems like sgrub gathered up/created some of the most remarkable individuals with rare qualities.
I will say this about the rainbow drinker thing. It would make sense that most would-be rainbow drinkers don't reach this status before adulthood, and the children, upholding the society and history of their race, might not have information of the adults out in space, nor records of the ancient past, for whatever reason. Thus, certain things escape common notice, because a bunch of dumb kids do a really bad job at keeping records of this kind of thing. Also, a lot of stuff to do with Kanaya was apparently really rare and undocumented, such as being diurnal, her virgin mother grub lusus, and so on.
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Post by whitehelm on Apr 18, 2017 4:46:48 GMT
After at least seven years, the youtube video containing the Con Air bunny scene has been taken down.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 18, 2017 13:24:34 GMT
Yeah I'm pretty sure we already got upset about that.
Or that might've been on reddit.
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Post by Gab on Apr 18, 2017 15:00:42 GMT
I've seen it mentioned several times, and I'd seen it for myself and I think pointed it out at one point somewhere, going unnoticed.
Luckily, Vriska later watches that scene in an embedded flash, so at least archival readers should still basically know how it goes. It almost makese it funnier and more memorable that way, like how you didn't get to see "Conversation With A Very Stupid Girl.txt" until later.
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Apr 19, 2017 14:31:43 GMT
Yeah it fits Homestuck's meta nature too, because when John sends it to Vriska she mentions having to rewind the earth internet to watch it- so being unable to watch the video until she does makes sense.
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