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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 16, 2016 3:00:27 GMT
No. What point are you trying to make here ? The Retcon very literally just magicked away many of the character's personal problems without satisfactory resolution. As I said earlier, many people read Homestuck for the characters and their interactions. Setting up what would've been some very interesting conversations and then not having them is disappointing, regardless of whatever point or principle Hussie was trying to portray. It sounded to me that you were agreeing with him, that it's our problem for having expectations. Why is that the lesson though? Why should we not expect basic story telling conventions? These conventions exist for a reason. People keep talking about how Homestuck is such an unconventional story, but I just don't think that's true. Certain, lesser rules have been bent and played with, that is true. But the basic, core principles of story telling have always been there, as they should. Unless I'm missing something, it sounds like you're suggesting that the only reason Hussie threw the storytelling rulebook right at the end was to demonstrate that he could, and that the ending only makes sense and is satisfactory if we accept that there is no rulebook, even though there has been a rulebook, however loose for 95% of the story. |
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Post by melonlord on Apr 16, 2016 3:08:22 GMT
Fwiw, I incline to see Synchronize-Unite as an example of something working exactly as planned. Putting aside the "clever twist or not" thing for a moment, Synchronize-Unite worked because we didn't see the plan beforehand. We knew Dirk had some sort of scheme or idea, and we saw him set certain things up, but we didn't know for sure what he was going to do until we saw him do it. Watching him set things up for seemingly arbitrary reasons only for everything to snap into place was cool and satisfying. Vriska's plan was explained in unnecessary detail beforehand, so we already knew what was supposed to happen. Watching the plan acted out isn't really satisfying (at least for me) because we've already seen how the pieces were supposed to snap into place. Nothing new or unexpected is really happening, save for small surprises like Dad, which, while cool, don't really impact how the battle was planned out. The key element here is reader knowledge. If a plan is kept secret, it's ok for it to unfold normally, because that's still new and exciting territory for us, even if it isn't for the characters. If the plan is explained, then it just becomes a spoiler; having it play out normally is boring, because the audience already knows what is going to happen, and is being fed redundant information. This is why Cascade and Game Over are mind-blowing and exciting; we're seeing things go very awry and against the characters' plans. |
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 16, 2016 3:15:41 GMT
^ Exactly. Not only was the plan not straightforward and involved some stuff we weren't even expecting, it wasn't told to the readers and hence we didn't know what was coming.
I think if Vriska's plan wasn't told to the readers it could have made things more interesting. It was still straightforward for Homestuck's standards, but it would have been more satisfying. You just can't compare the two. One was Hussie being a genius and the other seemed like lazy writing.
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Post by sparkeletran on Apr 16, 2016 3:22:52 GMT
Yes. I know. That's why, as I said, "it's not hard fact." But that still doesn't change the fact that, with the information we have, it's a perfectly reasonable conclusion that the characters are speaking the truth. You can speak the truth and be wrong. I never said I thought Condy or Hussie were lying, because that wouldn't make any sense. Look, I just don't see why I should believe it unless I see it so...yeah. But in any case, even if the Cueball totally was Lord English's weakness, the original point was that the Juju....somehow....destroyed his clockwork majyyks because for a moment it looked a little like a Cueball and....no. And that was the point I wanted to get at anyway. And I myself said that I didn't know about the juju doing anything to his clockwork majyyks. My original point has always been with using the not-total-confirmation of the cueball as his weakness to disprove it My opinion on the cue ball weakness: I don't think it can literally kill Lord English directly in the form of a sword. We heard from Jade, who heard from the Condesce, who heard from someone else, that the cue ball is Lord English's "weakness", which certainly leaves room for ambiguity. I think the cue ball is Lord English's weakness because, when it was a part of the god tier clock, it was what decided whether his death would be heroic, just, or neither. The cue ball originated from the clock, and its omniscience was used to evaluate the context of the death and decide what kind of death it was. As the mechanism that causes the clock to judge Caliborn, it is his weakness in that it has the ability to make his death permanent. However, by itself, it's just an omniscient ball. The Condesce only heard (probably from Doc Scratch, who would intentionally mislead her) that the cue ball was LE's "weakness", and she made an incorrect assumption that the cue ball could just be combined with a sword and used as a direct weapon. That's a pretty cool interpretation - does make sense. Still can't be entirely proved, but it's definitely a rad possibility. Putting aside the "clever twist or not" thing for a moment, Synchronize-Unite worked because we didn't see the plan beforehand. I actually sort of agree here - as much as I'm satisfied with the ending and thought Collide was pretty awesome for what it was trying to be, I do think skipping over the actual strategic meeting part of the reunion would've been good. It'd have let us figure things out as preparations came and went, and kept some things ambiguous - would've been pretty fun. |
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 16, 2016 3:40:37 GMT
Eh, I disagree that Vriska's plan spoiled what was going to happen.
Yeah, things went well and the groups were largely set up, but her plan most likely would have failed if the unforseen additions of Davepetasprite^2 and Jasprosesprite^2 didn't enter into the equation, and there was a lot more going wrong than the plan assumed, even if it was resolved within the same Flash. Jade was supposed to stay asleep but she woke up; Jake was meant to handle Spades Slick but he ollie-outtied and join in the Lord Noir fight (lucky for Jake, he probably would've been killed much quicker), Dad's involvement was entirely unplanned for, etc.
About the only one I'd really say went according to plan and was spoiled was the Crocker battle. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been more surprising or satisfying if the strategy meeting were skipped over, but I think it would have been weirder to have the meeting as part of the Flash itself, which is the only way I could logically see things going to prevent all the bad guys showing up together at the Lily Pad. Unless people are saying it should've been kept exactly as is, but with the actual plan segments inferred rather than displayed, which I could agree with. I just disagree with the vibe I'm getting of people being annoyed that Vriska's plan worked perfectly, when what wound up happening wasn't her plan, and her plan likely would've resulted in things not going as well as she thought.
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Post by sparkeletran on Apr 16, 2016 3:47:07 GMT
Yeah, I think in-story the meeting makes sense, but we could've maybe cut away when Vriska got everybody together and come back when things were over. Kept some of that mystery for a little longer - it's not like there were really any big complicated plans we needed to have explained.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 16, 2016 3:52:16 GMT
And like I said before, the stuff that happened in Collide that were 'surprising' weren't really that huge of a deal for me and Homestuck used to do better. And Jade waking up did nothing on the narrative since she went straight to what she was supposed to do according to the plan. I was expecting Spades to die the minute he entered that fight, since Dave, Terezi and Dirk don't know that he's an anti-hero rather than a villain. And he did die. But yeah, I agree that the plan shouldn't have been told. Like, maybe that entire part of Vriska telling the plan could have been cut completely and the narrative could have went straight to a different point of view. I admit that does seem kind of cliche too, but it's better than what we got. I found this on reddit which has a lot of good points as well.
The best way that I can sum it up is that Act 6 as a whole didn't need to be a big as it was, and was quite a waste of time in general because a lot of the extra plots involved used so much time but lead to nothing. I love Meenah and Aranea before her shitty plot twist but the A1 trolls weren't even needed (even though I enjoyed Openbound, I understand they need to be cut out). The Intermissions of the pre-retcon timeline turned out to be a waste of time. The whole story with the cherubs and Caliborn's session could have been cut back a lot. The whole tree year period and the Alpha kids in general. Heck basically everything that happened in Act 6 had been a waste of time and not needed. I see Acts 1-5 as a brilliant story, but Act 6 as the shitty sequel. And considering the fact that the fandom greatly declined during Act 6, I think that proves how bad it went down. |
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imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
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Post by imglasses on Apr 16, 2016 4:00:23 GMT
A diagram of the problem I have with the end of Homestuck: |
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Post by melonlord on Apr 16, 2016 4:33:28 GMT
Eh, I disagree that Vriska's plan spoiled what was going to happen. Yeah, things went well and the groups were largely set up, but her plan most likely would have failed if the unforseen additions of Davepetasprite^2 and Jasprosesprite^2 didn't enter into the equation, and there was a lot more going wrong than the plan assumed, even if it was resolved within the same Flash. Jade was supposed to stay asleep but she woke up; Jake was meant to handle Spades Slick but he ollie-outtied and join in the Lord Noir fight (lucky for Jake, he probably would've been killed much quicker), Dad's involvement was entirely unplanned for, etc. About the only one I'd really say went according to plan and was spoiled was the Crocker battle. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been more surprising or satisfying if the strategy meeting were skipped over, but I think it would have been weirder to have the meeting as part of the Flash itself, which is the only way I could logically see things going to prevent all the bad guys showing up together at the Lily Pad. Unless people are saying it should've been kept exactly as is, but with the actual plan segments inferred rather than displayed, which I could agree with. I just disagree with the vibe I'm getting of people being annoyed that Vriska's plan worked perfectly, when what wound up happening wasn't her plan, and her plan likely would've resulted in things not going as well as she thought. I think this is a good point, but I don't think the variations and additions were enough to really make the battle interesting (which would have been the real narrative purpose of keeping her plan secret), because, though there are some deviations from her exact plan, there was no major impact on the flow or outcome of battle. They are closer to what I would call surprises. Let's say there's a massive battle for good and evil going on, and an enemy knight in bright pink armor shows up. The main character cuts them down like they would any other soldier, and Pink Knight is never mentioned again. This, on its own, is not a plot twist. It's unexpected, and sort of surprising, but there was no real impact to the heroes' plan, so it is at best a distraction. A surprise, not a twist. Now, if this pink soldier turned out to be really hard to kill, or have magic powers or something, then that's different. That's a significant threat that needs to be dealt with and adapted to. There's tension now, because the integrity of the heroes' plan is in danger. This is closer to an actual plot twist. I would argue that most of the extra elements in Collide were of the former variety. Twists that fall in the heroes' favor (the sprites^2, dad, jade) don't really create tension, because the heroes already expect to win; this just cements it. The kids don't need to adapt or change their plans because of them. Smaller things like the heroes' battles getting shuffled around create some interest, but they don't shift favor away from the heroes in any way I can really see. The integrity of the plan is not threatened. The villains don't bring out anything unexpected at all at all on their side, with no sudden traps sprung or new enemies introduced that could have seriously hampered the heroes. The closest thing I think the battle has to a twist is Union Jack's head becoming a black hole, and Dave having to decapitate Dirk. These both could have had significant impact on the outcome of the battle, and might have posed a serious challenge to be worked through. But they happened right at the end, so nothing really comes of them. I suppose I can basically sum it up like this: at no point was I ever unsure if the kids would win or not. And that is incredibly bad for tension. This is all pretty subjective, but I think it comes close to why me and a lot of people just didn't like Collide. There's little tension from the heroes being seriously threatened, there's little tension from not knowing the plan or what's going to happen, so it's simply. There. |
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 16, 2016 4:45:27 GMT
Eh, I disagree that Vriska's plan spoiled what was going to happen. Yeah, things went well and the groups were largely set up, but her plan most likely would have failed if the unforseen additions of Davepetasprite^2 and Jasprosesprite^2 didn't enter into the equation, and there was a lot more going wrong than the plan assumed, even if it was resolved within the same Flash. Jade was supposed to stay asleep but she woke up; Jake was meant to handle Spades Slick but he ollie-outtied and join in the Lord Noir fight (lucky for Jake, he probably would've been killed much quicker), Dad's involvement was entirely unplanned for, etc. About the only one I'd really say went according to plan and was spoiled was the Crocker battle. I'm not saying it wouldn't have been more surprising or satisfying if the strategy meeting were skipped over, but I think it would have been weirder to have the meeting as part of the Flash itself, which is the only way I could logically see things going to prevent all the bad guys showing up together at the Lily Pad. Unless people are saying it should've been kept exactly as is, but with the actual plan segments inferred rather than displayed, which I could agree with. I just disagree with the vibe I'm getting of people being annoyed that Vriska's plan worked perfectly, when what wound up happening wasn't her plan, and her plan likely would've resulted in things not going as well as she thought. I think this is a good point, but I don't think the variations and additions were enough to really make the battle interesting (which would have been the real narrative purpose of keeping her plan secret), because, though there are some deviations from her exact plan, there was no major impact on the flow or outcome of battle. They are closer to what I would call surprises. Let's say there's a massive battle for good and evil going on, and an enemy knight in bright pink armor shows up. The main character cuts them down like they would any other soldier, and Pink Knight is never mentioned again. This, on its own, is not a plot twist. It's unexpected, and sort of surprising, but there was no real impact to the heroes' plan, so it is at best a distraction. A surprise, not a twist. Now, if this pink soldier turned out to be really hard to kill, or have magic powers or something, then that's different. That's a significant threat that needs to be dealt with and adapted to. There's tension now, because the integrity of the heroes' plan is in danger. This is closer to an actual plot twist. I would argue that most of the extra elements in Collide were of the former variety. Twists that fall in the heroes' favor (the sprites^2, dad, jade) don't really create tension, because the heroes already expect to win; this just cements it. The kids don't need to adapt or change their plans because of them. Smaller things like the heroes' battles getting shuffled around create some interest, but they don't shift favor away from the heroes in any way I can really see. The integrity of the plan is not threatened. The villains don't bring out anything unexpected at all at all on their side, with no sudden traps sprung or new enemies introduced that could have seriously hampered the heroes. The closest thing I think the battle has to a twist is Union Jack's head becoming a black hole, and Dave having to decapitate Dirk. These both could have had significant impact on the outcome of the battle, and might have posed a serious challenge to be worked through. But they happened right at the end, so nothing really comes of them. I suppose I can basically sum it up like this: at no point was I ever unsure if the kids would win or not. And that is incredibly bad for tension. This is all pretty subjective, but I think it comes close to why me and a lot of people just didn't like Collide. There's little tension from the heroes being seriously threatened, there's little tension from not knowing the plan or what's going to happen, so it's simply. There. goddammit why can't i explain stuff as great as you. you need a medal. I think another issue I have is that the way Act5 handled it's conclusion is far great because it combined text and images until the final flash, and it even had a flash that contained a lot of text in it. Cascade even had text when it was necessary. A small epilogue even happened before Cascade, which had multiple viewpoints of characters and wrapped up a lot of lose ends that Cascade wouldn't solve, like what did Vriska do after her death. The final of Act 6 didn't have this and instead the massive walls of text were dumped early, and everything after that was action and images. A small epilogue like Act 5's one should have occurred right before Act 7 to wrap up character arcs. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 16, 2016 5:34:25 GMT
Hey guys, is it wrong that I feel like Vriska got a happy ending, and that she did earn it?
Because I do not think it is wrong that some people like the ending, and other people dislike it.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 16, 2016 6:23:30 GMT
Hey guys, is it wrong that I feel like Vriska got a happy ending, and that she did earn it? Because I do not think it is wrong that some people like the ending, and other people dislike it. Which Vriska? The one that Hussie purposefully wrote as an abusive fatshamer who didn't learn anything from the 8000-page-long adventure? LOL. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 16, 2016 6:46:07 GMT
Hey guys, is it wrong that I feel like Vriska got a happy ending, and that she did earn it? Because I do not think it is wrong that some people like the ending, and other people dislike it. Which Vriska? The one that Hussie purposefully wrote as an abusive fatshamer who didn't learn anything from the 8000-page-long adventure? LOL. I honestly feel like she did learn her lesson, back in that Pesterlog with John shortly before her death. (Vriska) backslid into being a Huge 8itch (8luh 8luh) after she died because she had tried to change, and gotten killed for it. When (Vriska) eventually "got over" her issues, her solution was to just ignore Lord English, and enjoy the "fireworks" that represented the double-deaths of millions. Vriska did not go through that, instead of getting stabbed, she got knocked out, and presumably learned afterward why her actions would have been a huge mistake. SOMEONE had to go fight Lord English, and everyone in the session, she was the only that was both powerful and superfluous. If she had died, it would have been okay. This does not really matter, though, because it is just my opinion, and only tangentially related to the subject we are here to discuss.. Edit: Also, this is all I am going to say on this matter, because I do not want us to need a Vriska quarantine thread. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 16, 2016 6:49:28 GMT
Oh! My actual point is that it should be okay for us to all have different interpretations of this comic, what happened in it, and what was and was not good.
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 16, 2016 7:07:36 GMT
If the theory that the Juju trapped Lord English in the story as it was about to end is true, it's not a huge stretch to imagine it also trapped Vriska, which may be seen as more pleasing since she'd essentially have trapped herself in the story while the others got to leave.
Hmm, I wonder if ghosts still exist, actually?
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 16, 2016 7:10:38 GMT
Which Vriska? The one that Hussie purposefully wrote as an abusive fatshamer who didn't learn anything from the 8000-page-long adventure? LOL. I honestly feel like she did learn her lesson, back in that Pesterlog with John shortly before her death. (Vriska) backslid into being a Huge 8itch (8luh 8luh) after she died because she had tried to change, and gotten killed for it. When (Vriska) eventually "got over" her issues, her solution was to just ignore Lord English, and enjoy the "fireworks" that represented the double-deaths of millions. Vriska did not go through that, instead of getting stabbed, she got knocked out, and presumably learned afterward why her actions would have been a huge mistake. SOMEONE had to go fight Lord English, and everyone in the session, she was the only that was both powerful and superfluous. If she had died, it would have been okay. This does not really matter, though, because it is just my opinion, and only tangentially related to the subject we are here to discuss.. Edit: Also, this is all I am going to say on this matter, because I do not want us to need a Vriska quarantine thread. I don't want to start another one of those threads ether, but I still don't get why her post-retcon version turned out worse though. I thought that maybe the reason why she didn't change pre-retcon was because she was dead, and hence couldn't change. Vriska had no excuse this time. She had three years. She even stated to John that she wanted to always be the best. Note the 'wanted', like she got over that and didn't want to strive for that anymore after she fought Jack Noir. She truly behaved like she didn't like the life she was living anymore and really wanted to change it. Yet here she is, wanting to defeat Lord English. Everything she said to John just seems meaningless now. Its like as if when she discovered that the timeline changed itself to keep her alive, it made her ego bigger or something. I hope ghosts still exist. I don't like the thought of Meenah being gone completely. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 16, 2016 7:43:34 GMT
We did not actually see anything in the last few seconds of the flash, and there was still an Curtain-page. I feel like that left enough "story" for the Betas to emerge from the House Juju (because I believe that the Masterpiece is Post-Retcon), Pocket the Eight Ball, grab everyone who was still alive, and have John canon-zap them out. Aradia only wanted to see what happened when the whole place fell apart, which she did, it turns out that when the whole place falls apart, Alt!Calliope makes a black hole out of the Green Sun and rips a hole in Paradox Space, so she really did not have a reason to stay there any longer, Vriska got to look cool, but did not actually do anything more than open a door for the real heroes, then immediately had to get her ass saved from oblivion, Davepeta is too wonderful to die, and I really don't want Sollux to die even more for no reason. I also like to think that the Kids recovered and revived the remaining bodies, because WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST HAVE JANE REVIVE THE DEAD TROLLS, and that Andrew Hussie was also alive (he had had the Ring of Life, after all, and his eyes always look like that), but that everyone left him behind anyway, because he's some orange weirdo. That's just my headcanon, though.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 16, 2016 7:44:05 GMT
I honestly feel like she did learn her lesson, back in that Pesterlog with John shortly before her death. (Vriska) backslid into being a Huge 8itch (8luh 8luh) after she died because she had tried to change, and gotten killed for it. When (Vriska) eventually "got over" her issues, her solution was to just ignore Lord English, and enjoy the "fireworks" that represented the double-deaths of millions. Vriska did not go through that, instead of getting stabbed, she got knocked out, and presumably learned afterward why her actions would have been a huge mistake. SOMEONE had to go fight Lord English, and everyone in the session, she was the only that was both powerful and superfluous. If she had died, it would have been okay. This does not really matter, though, because it is just my opinion, and only tangentially related to the subject we are here to discuss.. I'm sorry, but I can't not talk about this. She all but deliberately draws the audience's ire like a fucking magnetron, everything about the visuals and dialogue are designed to convey that she's a bad guy, A6A6I5 almost seems dedicated to establishing her as a villain and setting up her inevitable downfall. The ending just plain doesn't make sense. And this wasn't a part of the story that he wrote years ago, like the Trickster Mario thing, this was THE LAST PART OF THE STORY that he actually drew, and one of the last parts he wrote. Like seriously look at this shit, I don't think any passage in the story makes you actively root for a character's death more, other than Eridan's rampage and Aranea's interjection. He has to be "trolling" to some degree, though I don't actually like using that word to describe his actions, because I'm sure he has his reasons for posting this ending first and everything will be made clear soon enough, but there's just no way he's not aware that it sends the wrong message and is entirely inconsistent with the part of the story that immediately precedes it. Everything she said to John just seems meaningless now. Its like as if when she discovered that the timeline changed itself to keep her alive, it made her ego bigger or something. Bingo. |
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Post by Neptz on Apr 16, 2016 7:49:29 GMT
I honestly feel like she did learn her lesson, back in that Pesterlog with John shortly before her death. (Vriska) backslid into being a Huge 8itch (8luh 8luh) after she died because she had tried to change, and gotten killed for it. When (Vriska) eventually "got over" her issues, her solution was to just ignore Lord English, and enjoy the "fireworks" that represented the double-deaths of millions. Vriska did not go through that, instead of getting stabbed, she got knocked out, and presumably learned afterward why her actions would have been a huge mistake. SOMEONE had to go fight Lord English, and everyone in the session, she was the only that was both powerful and superfluous. If she had died, it would have been okay. This does not really matter, though, because it is just my opinion, and only tangentially related to the subject we are here to discuss.. I'm sorry, but I can't not talk about this. She all but deliberately draws the audience's ire like a fucking magnetron, everything about the visuals and dialogue are designed to convey that she's a bad guy, A6A6I5 almost seems dedicated to establishing her as a villain and setting up her inevitable downfall. The ending just plain doesn't make sense. And this wasn't a part of the story that he wrote years ago, like the Trickster Mario thing, this was THE LAST PART OF THE STORY that he actually drew, and one of the last parts he wrote. Like seriously look at this shit, I don't think any passage in the story makes you actively root for a character's death more, other than Eridan's rampage and Aranea's interjection. He has to be "trolling" to some degree, though I don't actually like using that word to describe his actions, because I'm sure he has his reasons for posting this ending first and everything will be made clear soon enough, but there's just no way he's not aware that it sends the wrong message and is entirely inconsistent with the part of the story that immediately precedes it. Everything she said to John just seems meaningless now. Its like as if when she discovered that the timeline changed itself to keep her alive, it made her ego bigger or something. Bingo. Eridan's rampage was really tame compared to what Vriska did there, honestly. I didn't really actively wish for his death like I do with Vriska, and while Aranea was certainly awful, she wasn't too awful. |
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 16, 2016 7:54:50 GMT
Okay, mentioning my alternate interpretation of Vriska was clearly a mistake. How do I stop this before it gets any more out of hand?
Edit:
Then again, at least no one is fighting about the ending anymore, but then again X2 Combo, that was at least on-topic, and not my fault.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 16, 2016 7:58:04 GMT
Okay, mentioning my alternate interpretation of Vriska was clearly a mistake. How do I stop this before it gets any more out of hand? It's fine, it's not even really your fault since, as of right now, the narrative actually supports your interpretation. I'm more frustrated with Hussie. |
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 16, 2016 8:20:39 GMT
Eh I'm done arguing with the ending and what the comic turned into. There's no point in arguing because people have their own opinions of it which won't change, and hence a cycle happens. Just like Vriska, Davekat and Retcon discussions, the ending of homestuck discussion will be a cycle and won't get anywhere, so there's no point in arguing. I'd rather talk about what moments in Homestuck people like, stuff like that, since comic was a great experience for me in the past and I have an urge to go back to the beginning and reread the earlier acts despite being nearly done with act 5. I might make that topic actually.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 16, 2016 9:47:33 GMT
I still can't get over how perfect this ending is. 123At the very least, would it have been too much for them to at least just text Vriska and ask her how things are going? Terezi tried contacting Vriska but nobody responded. EDIT: 4 OUT OF 13 OF THE PEOPLE ON THE ENDGAME PLATFORM WERE FROM THE UNIVERSE IT ALL STARTED IN, B1. GODDAMMIT HUSSIE. Oh my fucking god. Unless Time powers can't let you travel between a universe and a session, which would make sense, but then how did Gamzee get back to the B2 session? I'm confused. Get back to the B2 session? What do you mean? It's implied that pre-retcon Gamzee came on the Trolls' meteor to the B2 session and died in GAME OVER, while post-retcon Gamzee came on the Trolls' meteor to the B2 session and was put into the fridge and got sucked into the black hole to end up on Caliborn's Earth and then died in the events of the Masterpiece. LMAO naruto is still worse than homestuck dude nah as far as im concerned a conclusive ending (the most important part of a story imo) puts naruto above homestuck as a whole. at the end your satisfied with it. even if it was stretched out way longer then it should have been to an even greater degree then homestuck was. a week ago i would have agreed with you without a second thought tho. For me the most important part of a story is not how it ends but the journey. The things we experience while the story is still ongoing. Like, let's say the Pokémon anime someday ends and Ash becomes a Pokémon Master like he dreamt of being. Okay, that would be hella sweet. But to me, that wouldn't be anymore sweet than all the things he experienced along the way. And at the same time, I wouldn't mind Ash never becoming an actual Pokémon master if it means his adventure just keeps on going, because to me that's the charm of the Pokémon anime. A story that never actually 'ends' and just keeps on going and expanding is very fascinating to me. It's nice to see the fandom is finally putting away the pitchforks and engaging in levelheaded discussion. Personally, I'm conflicted on Act 7. Artistically, it was awesome, couldn't ask for better. That animation was far better than I could've hoped or expected. Story-wise, I'm not against the open-endedness of the finale. I like the idea that the future is open to interpretation / has infinite possibilities. I just think at least a few plot points could've been wrapped up prior to that in Act 6. Not necessarily every plot point (though that would have been neat) just the major ones that were ignored in the flash. I also really like the theory that the kids were finally able to completely escape from the narrative, no longer bound by the rules. In essence, no longer "Homestuck."  In other news, /r/homestuck is now a trending subreddit. It seems the hype/rage/discussion has made some waves.  If anything, I'm sure questions will continue being solved in what's still upcoming (Homestuck books, Hiveswap, Homestuck 2.0, the epilogue), while at the same time probably creating even more. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 16, 2016 11:09:59 GMT
And I myself said that I didn't know about the juju doing anything to his clockwork majyyks. My original point has always been with using the not-total-confirmation of the cueball as his weakness to disprove it I just wanted to get to the original point I was making when I initially addressed this issue while talking to another poster, because I wanted to clear that up before I dropped it. Also, I never said the lack of explicit confirmation disproved the Cueball was a weakness, but that it failed to prove it. Putting all that aside, I want to talk about an idea some of us were throwing around before Act 7 came out: the idea that Hussie could make more content after it by employing some meta shenanigans. The thing is, everything else about this ending aside, I don't think it was a happy ending. Whether the kids entered that door and lived long, happy lives or whether they zapped in to fight Caliborn and were spit out much later by Vriska's Juju to finish him off or whether they were spit out of the Juju as Jade's last frog, it doesn't matter. They're still stuck, like Caliborn. They're still home stuck, because their ending took place within Homestuck. This comic was always very aware of itself and has turned the narrative of the story into a mechanic of the story. Being in the story itself is symbolic of the limitations placed on you before you reach enlightenment and independence, or the equivalent thereof that exists in this story's universe, because the characters aren't making their own decisions, those are being dictated by the narrative and what has to happen. The problem the kids and trolls have always had is that they were trapped in a narrative. The story is that Lord English is born and becomes an omnicidal, nigh unstoppable monster. Any action taken that could keep that from happening is edited out of the story, and only time lines where Lord English becomes a thing are kept. There's no winning the game, because the outcome is already determined. So, the only winning move is not to play. That is, the characters would have to work outside the narrative. So that if any version of them ever succeeded, they'd find themselves....outside Homestuck, and no longer home stuck. I think Hussie might have a very, very meta end for his comic in mind. The only question is, how will the last bits of it be told? As I've said before, I am really not in favor of imperative content coming out with the games or with books or something. Not everybody can afford to spend the money, and they'd be left out. And even for the people who can and are happy to spend the money, it's still cumbersome for them to have to read along at home or play a game to get to the end of a web comic, as opposed to just.....you know, reading the web comic. However, hosting the story on other websites or having flash games on Newgrounds or whatever...that could be cool. The only question is....until we get the next pieces of the puzzle, how long is this pause going to last? |
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Post by 2create on Apr 16, 2016 12:06:16 GMT
EDIT: 4 OUT OF 13 OF THE PEOPLE ON THE ENDGAME PLATFORM WERE FROM THE UNIVERSE IT ALL STARTED IN, B1. GODDAMMIT HUSSIE. Oh my fucking god. Actually, only one of them is, if you count the retcon shenanigans. John and Roxy the only ones characters who exist from the original timeline, of which only John is from B1. |
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