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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 7, 2016 22:30:39 GMT
Man, I really wish IPGD wasn't so rude about it. She could simply state: "I'm not the person to ask about this situation." or "I'm sorry, I don't have any more info on that." But I think everyone is annoyed about the situation. Well, WE are quite annoyed by the situation, too.
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Post by Jovian on Apr 7, 2016 22:37:39 GMT
Man, I really wish IPGD wasn't so rude about it. She could simply state: "I'm not the person to ask about this situation." or "I'm sorry, I don't have any more info on that." But I think everyone is annoyed about the situation. Seriously. The lack of communication about what happened or what we should do in the meantime is discouraging as all hell. I know WP is small, but any other small company would at least post a notice about it. You don't just leave your community in the dark like this. And when I think about all the original content that might not have had backups...ugh! I'm honestly super bummed out. The situation looks worse and worse every day that goes by with no responses on the matter except for rudeness.
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partymember57
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Post by partymember57 on Apr 7, 2016 22:38:51 GMT
Quick question, was IPGD known as Soft Owl on the forums?
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Post by pointycatears on Apr 7, 2016 22:42:45 GMT
I'm more worried about the fan adventures. I mean, there are only 2 that I read, and both are on the Mirror site, but what about discussions and suggestions? I haven't found them on this site, so I think they must be on another site? And what about the unmirrored ones?
Anyway, I'll miss MSPA Forums if it doesn't come back. I used to like reading through older threads, even if I didn't post a lot there. I'll be very surprised if it does come back. But if not, well, maybe this site will be not-so-temporary.
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sporkaganza
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Post by sporkaganza on Apr 7, 2016 23:05:25 GMT
Quick question, was IPGD known as Soft Owl on the forums? No, they're two completely different people. Soft Owl seems to have completely withdrawn from the Internet for the time being.
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Holly
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Post by Holly on Apr 7, 2016 23:05:42 GMT
Quick question, was IPGD known as Soft Owl on the forums? No, different people!
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 7, 2016 23:06:43 GMT
Soft Owl is Hussie's significant other and from what I understand helps him manage What Pumpkin.
ipgd I think is just a guest artist.
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partymember57
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Post by partymember57 on Apr 7, 2016 23:21:18 GMT
Oh, glad I asked then. I'm relieved, for some reason I had them confused. Good thing I didn't get mad at the wrong person.
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researcherwisemon
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Post by researcherwisemon on Apr 7, 2016 23:30:03 GMT
Warning, I kinda went on for a little bit here. Man, I really wish IPGD wasn't so rude about it. She could simply state: "I'm not the person to ask about this situation." or "I'm sorry, I don't have any more info on that." But I think everyone is annoyed about the situation. Seriously. The lack of communication about what happened or what we should do in the meantime is discouraging as all hell. I know WP is small, but any other small company would at least post a notice about it. You don't just leave your community in the dark like this. And when I think about all the original content that might not have had backups...ugh! I'm honestly super bummed out. The situation looks worse and worse every day that goes by with no responses on the matter except for rudeness. Rudeness from a person who in all likelyhood doesn't actually work for the What Pumpkin company and thus isn't being as diplomatic about it as such a person should be acting in this kind of position. But let me bold the above from therationaldove, and repeat it, Everyone is annoyed by the situation. Everyone is annoyed by what's going on, and I've lived through stressful situations like this before. In each and every time, the reasons for silence are usually GOOD ones. Take something like the Legal situation we've heard about before (which we also heard from ipgd, incidentally) for example. WP legally could not comment on it. Is that same thing happening now? If it's the case we'll likely not hear anything further on the matter. Is it just a situation where silence is the better of two bad options? This is more than likely, I think. I was once in a situation where someone was seemingly unfairly banned from a game, and a whole movement started to get them unbanned. The true motives behind the situation were much more complex than the game masters or the person banned let on, and I only gained enough insight, from a retired forum moderator who was brought back in to help with the cluster F of a situation, into the situation to realize that the more I knew, the more that I *Needed* to stay silent on what had happened if I learned more and more. Not just for legal issues, but for personal ones, as well as the potential backlash of the community at large. That banned person eventually returned, but under a new and different name and the game masters allowed it. I never questioned why because I knew silence was the better option. As I've said before, being in the position of having insider knowledge is * not fun.* IPGD is likely in that same situation here. She is an insider with knowledge most people don't have. She is being bugged about something as the only source of info and is giving as simple of a response as possible, because that likely is the only option she sees as being the right one to give. Is she being rude about it, though? Yes and no. In my situation, I poked and prodded as so many people here are doing, and so many did back then as well. What I learned was enough to tell me that the situation was better left being solved in the background and telling the community at large every intimate detail was just going to bring disaster. I advised people to stop digging and let the situation be resolved. Did they listen to me? No, I don't think they did. Instead, they just tried to learn what I had learned, and that was something I could not do lest things get worse. Different people will react to the same situation in different ways. The real problem is that people like to investigate, and want know more and more as possible about a situation. In communities where this is usually treated as a virtue, it's often times hard to get that sometimes... silence is the only option. Is What Pumpkin in the right for going radio silence? Are they being "professional" by not communicating? Is IPGD in the right for telling us the forums are gone? We cannot say with 100% certainty because, while we are inconvenienced by the problem, we are not in a position to do anything to *fix* the problem by knowing more about the situation. All we do know is what we are told, and for now, silence may indeed be the only card WP has to play. We're just going to have to respect that decision for now, until more information presents itself. I suspect that there is a LOT more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of. Today was a simple 6 page update, and yet it took almost all day to surface. What was Hussie dealing with that took so long to upload those pages? We'll probably never find out, and that's likely a good thing. The more we know, the more we'll feel useless and unable to do a thing to help. We're in a situation where the forums are down and we don't know why. The question we thus have to ask ourselves is: will knowing the "why" help the situation in any way, or could it prolong or even worsen it?
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 7, 2016 23:52:17 GMT
I would hope they'd at least have a backup of the posts from before they transitioned the forums that one time. I know when they did the transition they had to reupload everything basically and quite a few of the posts broke. Though I guess they could have deleted that too if they decided they didn't need the backup anymore since it was uploaded.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 7, 2016 23:55:46 GMT
Researcherwisemon's post makes sense... but there are still two things that can be done in every situation: showing concern and not being rude.
Specifically, WP or AH could at the very least have officially said something along the line of "the forums are down, we are sorry for the inconvenience, we can't give you more details at the moment but we are working on it and we will tell you more as soon as we can", and IPGD could have just said "no comment" or "I don't know" or even "I'm not the right person to ask about this", instead of basically flipping the bird to the whole fandom.
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Post by mementovivere on Apr 8, 2016 0:06:46 GMT
Yeah, those are some pretty good points, researcherwisemon, and important ones to keep in mind. I've definitely been in similar positions before, and it's not fun! Still, I think where many people are coming from is that it would be reassuring to get SOME kind of official word, even if it was just a single tweet saying "hey, the forums are down for the foreseeable future, but we're working on it so please be patient!" Arguably, that that's what the maintenance sign on the front page of the forums is doing, but it also went up BEFORE the forums shut down so I think a lot of people are confused about how valid it is. That being said, this was posted in response to a long post that Blackhole/Not-Terezi-Pyrope made about the situation: I won't share all of my thoughts about that, but the good news is that it sounds like they do in fact intend to bring the forums back once things have calmed down a bit! It's a shame that the time when the forums are most in need of fixing is also the same time when WP is the busiest and least able to do anything about it, but at least people should be able to EVENTUALLY get their forum adventures and fan projects and whatnot.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 8, 2016 0:19:56 GMT
Well, talk about a "an entitled tone that is disrespectful to other members of the community"... if this post reflects the current mood at WP, they really seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes who make Her Imperious Condescension appear humble in comparison.
Anyway, at least one statement is blatantly false. The rest of the fandom very much NOT "doesn’t have a problem with how this is being handled and are (sic) prepared to wait as long as it takes".
Also, if you can find the time to "create a throwaway blog to respond", you could also find the time to put an official statement about the issue on your f**king website, instead of posting anonymous comments on some fan's blog to chastise him.
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Post by Gab on Apr 8, 2016 0:33:58 GMT
Rudeness from a person who in all likelyhood doesn't actually work for the What Pumpkin company and thus isn't being as diplomatic about it as such a person should be acting in this kind of position. But let me bold the above from therationaldove, and repeat it, Everyone is annoyed by the situation. Everyone is annoyed by what's going on, and I've lived through stressful situations like this before. In each and every time, the reasons for silence are usually GOOD ones. Take something like the Legal situation we've heard about before (which we also heard from ipgd, incidentally) for example. WP legally could not comment on it. Is that same thing happening now? If it's the case we'll likely not hear anything further on the matter.
Is it just a situation where silence is the better of two bad options? This is more than likely, I think. I was once in a situation where someone was seemingly unfairly banned from a game, and a whole movement started to get them unbanned. The true motives behind the situation were much more complex than the game masters or the person banned let on, and I only gained enough insight, from a retired forum moderator who was brought back in to help with the cluster F of a situation, into the situation to realize that the more I knew, the more that I *Needed* to stay silent on what had happened if I learned more and more. Not just for legal issues, but for personal ones, as well as the potential backlash of the community at large. That banned person eventually returned, but under a new and different name and the game masters allowed it. I never questioned why because I knew silence was the better option.
As I've said before, being in the position of having insider knowledge is *not fun.* IPGD is likely in that same situation here. She is an insider with knowledge most people don't have. She is being bugged about something as the only source of info and is giving as simple of a response as possible, because that likely is the only option she sees as being the right one to give. Is she being rude about it, though? Yes and no. In my situation, I poked and prodded as so many people here are doing, and so many did back then as well. What I learned was enough to tell me that the situation was better left being solved in the background and telling the community at large every intimate detail was just going to bring disaster. I advised people to stop digging and let the situation be resolved. Did they listen to me? No, I don't think they did. Instead, they just tried to learn what I had learned, and that was something I could not do lest things get worse. Different people will react to the same situation in different ways.
The real problem is that people like to investigate, and want know more and more as possible about a situation. In communities where this is usually treated as a virtue, it's often times hard to get that sometimes... silence is the only option. Is What Pumpkin in the right for going radio silence? Are they being "professional" by not communicating? Is IPGD in the right for telling us the forums are gone? We cannot say with 100% certainty because, while we are inconvenienced by the problem, we are not in a position to do anything to *fix* the problem by knowing more about the situation. All we do know is what we are told, and for now, silence may indeed be the only card WP has to play. We're just going to have to respect that decision for now, until more information presents itself.
I suspect that there is a LOT more going on behind the scenes than we are aware of. Today was a simple 6 page update, and yet it took almost all day to surface. What was Hussie dealing with that took so long to upload those pages? We'll probably never find out, and that's likely a good thing. The more we know, the more we'll feel useless and unable to do a thing to help. We're in a situation where the forums are down and we don't know why.
The question we thus have to ask ourselves is: will knowing the "why" help the situation in any way, or could it prolong or even worsen it? Your presence on this thread is indispensable, good on you for your attitude. While I'm sad about the forums being down, I've acclimated to the situation by now, and this solution is proving adequate for the time being. Patience is often the key to situations like this, and hey, we have Homestuck updates to keep us occupied. I say let's chill out on Blaperile's pad and enjoy the view of Homestuck's final sunsets B) Why do i think this? Well... remember the game's kickstarter? One of the promises was that anyone who pledged 10$ or more for a copy of the game would get to beta-test it and supposedly post bug tickets through a hidden forum. Initially, we got an e-mail for the password-protected HS Game-Backers Tumblr (the password was Skaia) ...now that tumblr page is down :/ Weirdly, I have no memory at all of this blog, and I was following the kickstarter from day one. That's weird. Maybe I didn't get the email?
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Post by authorialalchemy on Apr 8, 2016 0:41:45 GMT
It's good to know that they're trying to fix it.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 8, 2016 0:44:38 GMT
Yeah, those are some pretty good points, researcherwisemon, and important ones to keep in mind. I've definitely been in similar positions before, and it's not fun! Still, I think where many people are coming from is that it would be reassuring to get SOME kind of official word, even if it was just a single tweet saying "hey, the forums are down for the foreseeable future, but we're working on it so please be patient!" Arguably, that that's what the maintenance sign on the front page of the forums is doing, but it also went up BEFORE the forums shut down so I think a lot of people are confused about how valid it is. That being said, this was posted in response to a long post that Blackhole/Not-Terezi-Pyrope made about the situation: I won't share all of my thoughts about that, but the good news is that it sounds like they do in fact intend to bring the forums back once things have calmed down a bit! It's a shame that the time when the forums are most in need of fixing is also the same time when WP is the busiest and least able to do anything about it, but at least people should be able to EVENTUALLY get their forum adventures and fan projects and whatnot. I love how some of the things that person said (and acted like if they were obvious), like "coding being replaced" or "problem being worked on" had never been stated by anyone from What Pumpkin before that post. If the problem isn't that bad, why have you not said anything before? Why letting us think the forums are lost forever? Also yelling at customers from being rude is very bad PR. You treat customers well no matter what happen, even if you're right.
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lyla
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Post by lyla on Apr 8, 2016 0:52:13 GMT
I mean, was it so difficult to say these things. Communication is important, you know. Now I'm grieving a little less.
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researcherwisemon
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Post by researcherwisemon on Apr 8, 2016 1:05:01 GMT
Researcherwisemon's post makes sense... but there are still two things that can be done in every situation: showing concern and not being rude. Specifically, WP or AH could at the very least have officially said something along the line of "the forums are down, we are sorry for the inconvenience, we can't give you more details at the moment but we are working on it and we will tell you more as soon as we can", and IPGD could have just said "no comment" or "I don't know" or even "I'm not the right person to ask about this", instead of basically flipping the bird to the whole fandom. Yeah, those are some pretty good points, researcherwisemon, and important ones to keep in mind. I've definitely been in similar positions before, and it's not fun! Still, I think where many people are coming from is that it would be reassuring to get SOME kind of official word, even if it was just a single tweet saying "hey, the forums are down for the foreseeable future, but we're working on it so please be patient!" Arguably, that that's what the maintenance sign on the front page of the forums is doing, but it also went up BEFORE the forums shut down so I think a lot of people are confused about how valid it is. I agree that IPGD should have declined commenting instead of being rude about it, and agreed that how the forums were taken down was done in a confusing way without a proper notice. We definitely should have had something been said, but at the moment, what's done is done, and it doesn't do us any real good to continually nitpick about the situation, which is the stage we seem to be gravitating around right now. Everyone's frustrated for various reasons, but unless there's a little time to cool off, people are just going to keep grinding away at eachother and just make everyone else mad. I- Well, talk about a "an entitled tone that is disrespectful to other members of the community"... if this post reflects the current mood at WP, they really seem to be a bunch of arrogant assholes who make Her Imperious Condescension appear humble in comparison. Anyway, at least one statement is blatantly false. The rest of the fandom very much NOT "doesn’t have a problem with how this is being handled and are (sic) prepared to wait as long as it takes". Also, if you can find the time to "create a throwaway blog to respond", you could also find the time to put an official statement about the issue on your f**king website, instead of posting anonymous comments on some fan's blog to chastise him. *Sigh* Alright, let's break this quote apart. Okay. This is a misstep, I'll agree. Something like this SHOULD have been posted in an official manner This doesn't come off as something that was planned, however. It sounds like someone going in to try to disarm the situation without a whole lot of time to do it. This implies the forums are in a recoverable state, and are being worked on. A "Don't Panic" statement. The timing of the forums going down came during the build up to EOA6+FinaleWeek, during which a lot of crazy stuff is going on, was just a bit of bad timing, all around. It is indeed quite likely that a large portion of the fandom is just patiently waiting. It also implies a bit about what exactly was done to the forums. Some coding was deleted/damaged, and needs to be replaced. This fits with the PHP Page Deletion comments from before. This comes off as a person who is stressed out, to me. I haven't read the post in question. *goes back to try and find it* Oh, wow, this is at least a medium length post. I can see why the WP-staffer didn't read the entire thing, especially if they were short on time to write up a response. *reads* Okay, having read it through, I can see how someone skimming in a rush could get the sense of an entitled tone. Long posts (kinda like this one is getting wow) tend to make people's eyes glaze over, more so if they're in a rush. The sentence also uses 'but' wrongly; I think whoever wrote this was in a rush to get it out. This is kind of what I ended up saying earlier, just in a bit more of a curt tone. It doesn't come off as 'entitled' or 'arrogant', though. It just comes off as stressed and rushed for time. This is likely why it wasn't put up in an official way- going through and making sure you're saying things diplomatically takes its time, and if the situation is as stressful as it seems, then the person who wrote this likely took time off of doing something else important to write it. Given that they are a small group of people, this likely delayed something else by a matter of minutes. Hell, I spent at least a good twenty minutes writing my previous post here, they likely didn't have that much free time to write this. Your presence on this thread is indispensable, good on you for your attitude. Thanks. ...Damn it, I really should just get a job in Customer Service and be done with it. I always get roped into these things somehow. XD I love how some of the things that person said (and acted like if they were obvious), like "coding being replaced" or "problem being worked on" had never been stated by anyone from What Pumpkin before that post. If the problem isn't that bad, why have you not said anything before? Why letting us think the forums are lost forever? Also yelling at customers from being rude is very bad PR. You treat customers well no matter what happen, even if you're right. I mean, was it so difficult to say these things. Communication is important, you know. Now I'm grieving a little less. Very likely, WP's been in damage control mode the moment the forums went down, along side everything else that's been going on. See again, limited staff. Things that may be obvious to them might not occur to them that it's not entirely 'given' that something is happening to the mass public, or someone may have assumed that someone else passed along the message that things were being worked on and nothing actually got posted due to a lack of time... and by the time someone DID notice nothing had been said? *Shrugs* Honestly, this seems like just a very bad confluence of misfortune striking at an inopportune moment. Had this happened at any other time, the response likely would have been very different... or it could very well have been the same. I can't say for certain because I'm not WP staff, and if I was, I likely would have been pulled into the chaos of everything going on as well. TL;DR:
WP's response: Forums are being worked on. Their attitude towards it really boils down to what the hell happened, and how badly WP's staff panicked in starting damage control along with dealing with the rest of Finale Week. ...Hrm, I wonder if What Pumpkin's in need of a Customer Service Representative?
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 8, 2016 1:18:04 GMT
I agree that IPGD should have declined commenting instead of being rude about it, and agreed that how the forums were taken down was done in a confusing way without a proper notice. We definitely should have had something been said, but at the moment, what's done is done, and it doesn't do us any real good to continually nitpick about the situation, which is the stage we seem to be gravitating around right now. Everyone's frustrated for various reasons, but unless there's a little time to cool off, people are just going to keep grinding away at eachother and just make everyone else mad. [SNIP] WP's response: Forums are being worked on. Their attitude towards it really boils down to what the hell happened, and how badly WP's staff panicked in starting damage control along with dealing with the rest of Finale Week....Hrm, I wonder if What Pumpkin's in need of a Customer Service Representative? It definitely looks like they need to get their CS act (heh) together; as I already said several times, shit happens: what's important is how you handle it. But yes, you are right, everybody needs to calm the fuck down.
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Post by BlackholeOU on Apr 8, 2016 1:47:32 GMT
Oh boy.
I always enjoy being berated as a straw man by a condescending anonymous representative who didn't even take the time to read what I had actually written before writing off our concerns as "entitlement".
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 8, 2016 1:58:27 GMT
Suddenly I feel like I am a part of Hell Week for a theater performance.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 8, 2016 2:03:31 GMT
You have a point on the anonymous thing, this guy could be just a troll and we wouldn't know because the official source has refused to say anything.
That's another reason you usually make official statements. Or someone else will make it for you.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 8, 2016 2:05:12 GMT
Honestly, this seems like just a very bad confluence of misfortune striking at an inopportune moment. I always enjoy being berated as a straw man by a condescending anonymous representative Ok, the mistery is now officially solved. This is the work of Lord English and his agent.
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Post by geckon on Apr 8, 2016 3:05:50 GMT
Howdy, just joined the site glad to have something forumy going on.
And this is the biggest problem I think WhatPumpkin and Hussie have right now. They just are not informing people about things. They get a lot of questions, which they ignore. that's fine. But it's okay to post an update to some projects, even if it's not even something huge. But getting word out about progress and things is very good. I know a lot of fans were sated when Hussie started posting just MONTHLY updates about the end of Homestuck. Think how much people would be reassured if they'd do something similiar for Hivestuck. The way it is now, it honestly just seems like he's talking to us to get rid of us, or to ask us to open our wallets. And I know it seems like I'm upset or something, but it just feels way less person than other communities of things I'm a part of.
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Post by whitehelm on Apr 8, 2016 4:28:28 GMT
Hold on, is waywardtastetester actually officially connected to Hussie/WP? Why should we trust that post more than the ones by ipgd?
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