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Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on Apr 30, 2016 19:19:59 GMT
I don't entirely understand the Alpha Troll's timeline. Like why Meenah hadn't appeared for a long time in the Dream Bubbles. I haven't had time for a re-read, but I just realized that what was up with Alpha trolls time-wise is probably the biggest hole I have.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 30, 2016 20:08:16 GMT
I don't entirely understand the Alpha Troll's timeline. Like why Meenah hadn't appeared for a long time in the Dream Bubbles. I haven't had time for a re-read, but I just realized that what was up with Alpha trolls time-wise is probably the biggest hole I have. The reason that Meenah didn't show up while the others stagnated for thousands of years is plot convenience just down the the non linear nature of time in the Furthest Ring and/or possibly some decision made by the HorrorTerrors, who control the Dream Bubbles.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 30, 2016 21:16:42 GMT
Pretty much for the same reason that for a long time the paths of the A2 Trolls in the Dreambubbles didn't cross the paths of the A1 Trolls.
Because of the whims of the Horrorterrors.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 30, 2016 21:41:29 GMT
I don't entirely understand the Alpha Troll's timeline. Like why Meenah hadn't appeared for a long time in the Dream Bubbles. I haven't had time for a re-read, but I just realized that what was up with Alpha trolls time-wise is probably the biggest hole I have. The A1 trolls all died at the same time in their session, but that moment in time doesn't correspond to any point in "time" in the furthest ring. If the A1 trolls appeared in different locations in the dream bubbles, they can just as easily have appeared at different times. And a dream bubble can travel backwards in time with respect to the timeline of another dream bubble, if it's moving. Space and time are vague and inseparable in the furthest ring. And as said previously, the horrorterrors have a level of control over all of this. They may have needed Meenah to appear at that point in space and time so that she would see the cracks in the furthest ring and decide to raise an army (the horrorterrors wanted Lord English to be defeated).
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Post by Arashi500 on May 1, 2016 5:37:24 GMT
So after watching Act 7 for the first time, I thought the Earth we see in it was B1 post-reckoning Earth, but the popular consensus is that the Earth we see in Act 7 is actually B2 Earth, correct? Can anyone link me a page where it would prove it one way or other? Because we would infer the Cherubs grow up on a desolate B2 Earth based on the abundance of shittily artefacted Statues of Liberty made by Post-Scratch Dave, but do we know for sure that the universe they enter into is Calliope and Caliborn's origin universe? A lot of theories seem to take this as fact, so I'd like to know if it was proven at any point.
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Post by obsidalicious on May 1, 2016 5:42:35 GMT
So after watching Act 7 for the first time, I thought the Earth we see in it was B1 post-reckoning Earth, but the popular consensus is that the Earth we see in Act 7 is actually B2 Earth, correct? Can anyone link me a page where it would prove it one way or other? Because we would infer the Cherubs grow up on a desolate B2 Earth based on the abundance of shittily artefacted Statues of Liberty made by Post-Scratch Dave, but do we know for sure that the universe they enter into is Calliope and Caliborn's origin universe? A lot of theories seem to take this as fact, so I'd like to know if it was proven at any point. Jade nabs the Earth in the Glitchy A6A6I1 Flash. As we see, the way she did this was to pop through Skaia's reckoning portals and pocket it with her Space powers. As this was the B2 Session in which this happened, the portals lead to B2 Earth. You can also see that the Earth she grabs is waterlogged, which the B1 Earth never was.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on May 1, 2016 5:44:10 GMT
Also, we can see the Statue of Liberty in Act 7 itself LOL.
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Post by Arashi500 on May 1, 2016 5:52:24 GMT
So after watching Act 7 for the first time, I thought the Earth we see in it was B1 post-reckoning Earth, but the popular consensus is that the Earth we see in Act 7 is actually B2 Earth, correct? Can anyone link me a page where it would prove it one way or other? Because we would infer the Cherubs grow up on a desolate B2 Earth based on the abundance of shittily artefacted Statues of Liberty made by Post-Scratch Dave, but do we know for sure that the universe they enter into is Calliope and Caliborn's origin universe? A lot of theories seem to take this as fact, so I'd like to know if it was proven at any point. Jade nabs the Earth in the Glitchy A6A6I1 Flash. As we see, the way she did this was to pop through Skaia's reckoning portals and pocket it with her Space powers. As this was the B2 Session in which this happened, the portals lead to B2 Earth. You can also see that the Earth she grabs is waterlogged, which the B1 Earth never was. Also, we can see the Statue of Liberty in Act 7 itself LOL. Ah, so we do. Can't believe that's never registered. Must be for lack of shitty artefacts.
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Post by Billiards Slick on May 1, 2016 5:52:59 GMT
So after watching Act 7 for the first time, I thought the Earth we see in it was B1 post-reckoning Earth, but the popular consensus is that the Earth we see in Act 7 is actually B2 Earth, correct? Can anyone link me a page where it would prove it one way or other? Because we would infer the Cherubs grow up on a desolate B2 Earth based on the abundance of shittily artefacted Statues of Liberty made by Post-Scratch Dave, but do we know for sure that the universe they enter into is Calliope and Caliborn's origin universe? A lot of theories seem to take this as fact, so I'd like to know if it was proven at any point. Jade nabs the Earth in the Glitchy A6A6I1 Flash. As we see, the way she did this was to pop through Skaia's reckoning portals and pocket it with her Space powers. As this was the B2 Session in which this happened, the portals lead to B2 Earth. You can also see that the Earth she grabs is waterlogged, which the B1 Earth never was. Only a slight correction, but that was pre-retcon, she never had a chance to do it in this timeline. Vriska did it instead.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on May 1, 2016 6:31:39 GMT
Only a slight correction, but that was pre-retcon, she never had a chance to do it in this timeline. Vriska did it instead. I recently noticed that Jade's dialogue almost seems to imply this will happen, years beforehand: And then Vriska not only steals Earth instead of Jade, but she steals both Jade and Jane back from the Condesce. I guess Condy wasn't the greatest Thief after all.
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Post by tastySalamanders on May 2, 2016 15:17:50 GMT
A more telling feature distinguishing the two Earths.
* In B1 the Earth turned to desert after the Reckoning + Bec's green sun blast and was in this state when the Red Miles reached it. * In B2 the Earth never dried up, and in fact due to the efforts of the Condesce was instead flooded and was in this state when the Red Miles reached it.
In the pre-retcon timeline Jade retrieved the flooded Earth. In the post-retcon timeline Vriska still retrieved a flooded Earth, and in fact in Act 7 the timelapse of Earth shows the oceans receding.
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Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on May 2, 2016 17:39:10 GMT
Was Alt!Calliope able to approach the Green Sun because of a nearby dreambubble, or something else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 7:11:57 GMT
Was Alt!Calliope able to approach the Green Sun because of a nearby dreambubble, or something else. lord english's rampage stabilized furtherst ring in time and space. that or plotholes
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Post by Gab on May 3, 2016 13:04:12 GMT
That, or an ability inherent to a Muse of Space, or some other special property of ghost Calliope.
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Post by tastySalamanders on May 3, 2016 14:50:45 GMT
Sometime to point out, alt!Calliope's ghost isn't the only example of bubble leaving, Jade's dream projection left too.
Arguably all of the Furthest Ring is inside dream bubbles when you consider is unstable spacetime.
Ghosts and dream projections are unable to leave dream bubbles by passing through the bubble's surface itself. However the nature of the Furthest Ring means you can likely leave and enter bubbles via non-Euclidean routes that bypass the surface entirely.
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Post by ashercrane on May 5, 2016 3:02:23 GMT
What page was the first time Sollux died?
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Post by obsidalicious on May 5, 2016 4:17:32 GMT
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Post by badatnames on May 14, 2016 0:44:42 GMT
More of a request than anything, but can anyone please bring up the panels where we get to see the chain of the troll sessions?
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Post by Neptz on May 14, 2016 1:05:32 GMT
More of a request than anything, but can anyone please bring up the panels where we get to see the chain of the troll sessions? YOu can also look at the wiki. Starts with Karkat (cancer)
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Post by badatnames on May 14, 2016 1:19:08 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by jasonface900 on May 16, 2016 2:07:13 GMT
So, me and a group of 4 friends have been working on a *secret* project and we were wondering about the specifics of Sburb. Mainly, in a perfect session, what would be the full required events and characters to create a universe? (I.E. stuff like stoking the Forge, or if its possible for a universe to be created without a space & time player) Adding to that, what would be the possible lands for each classpect, and if they'd tie into someones personality mainly, or their aspect. I know this is getting long, but my final question is how many dead sessions would there be compared to universe-bearing sessions. Again, this is for a fan-project, and I'd really appreciate it if someone could answer. Thanks in advance!
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Post by Blaperile on May 16, 2016 10:53:22 GMT
I moved this post to the MSPA Simple Questions thread. To answer the questions: Mainly, in a perfect session, what would be the full required events and characters to create a universe? (I.E. stuff like stoking the Forge, or if its possible for a universe to be created without a space & time player) Definitely required stuff is: prototyping all the Kernelsprites before entry (with something that is not a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity)and all players entering the game with their homes. All players need to build up their homes all the way uptil Skaia and all players need to confront their Denizens so that they release their Grist Hoards, so that these can be sent towards Skaia through the homes with a Grist Rig. The White King needs to be defeated by The Black King, and the latter needs to retrieve the former's sceptre to start The Reckoning. One of the players (presumably the leader of the session) needs to travel to the Veil and create themselves and their co-players (and their Guardians) through Ectobiology, so that they can be sent to the home planet on meteors. The First Guardian needs to be created inside The Frog Temple and this meteor also needs to be sent to the home planet (through the Reckoning), so that the temple can be found so that SBURB can be created there in the first place. The Land of the Hero of Time needs to have a Scratch device, while the Land of the Hero of Space needs to have The Forge (and this land needs to be named The Land Of [x] And Frogs). The Forge needs to be stoked, and the Hero of Space needs to do the frog breeding (apparently together with the Knight of their session) to create their Genesis Frog. Echidna keeps the Genesis Frog until the game is finished (The Black Queen and The Black King are defeated with the sceptre destroyed and the rings of both The White Queen and the Black Queen thrown into The Forge), and then the Genesis Frog is released so that it can put itself inside the Battlefield, and so the new universe is formed and the players can enter their universe through the end door on the Lilypad Platform beneath Skaia. And so the game is finished. Adding to that, what would be the possible lands for each classpect, and if they'd tie into someones personality mainly, or their aspect. There is not really a conclusive answer to that, but it seems that sometimes in the land name there is something that refers to the Aspect (for example: Wind, Light, Clockwork, Frogs, Angels), while sometimes there isn't as explicitly. I know this is getting long, but my final question is how many dead sessions would there be compared to universe-bearing sessions. Dead sessions are extremely uncommon and Caliborn is the only known case to have won their dead session because it's pretty much designed to be unwinnable.
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Post by jasonface900 on May 16, 2016 11:27:04 GMT
Alright, thanks for the aanswer! Sorry about posting in the wrong place, I wasn't comepletely sure where to put it.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on May 16, 2016 14:07:47 GMT
prototyping all the Kernelsprites before entry (with something that is not a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity)and all players entering the game with their homes. Technically, it's entirely possible for someone to prototype "a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity" and have things still go as planned, it's just harder, and presents a greater opportunity for things to go off the rails. Echidna keeps the Genesis Frog until the game is finished (The Black Queen and The Black King are defeated with the sceptre destroyed and the rings of both The White Queen and the Black Queen thrown into The Forge), and then the Genesis Frog is released so that it can put itself inside the Battlefield, and so the new universe is formed and the players can enter their universe through the end door on the Lilypad Platform beneath Skaia. And so the game is finished. Is this really a "normal" thing to happen, though? I mean, yes the Genesis Frog needs to get the center of the Battlefield and (at least one of) the rings destroyed, but I got the impression the only reason Echidna was holding onto it in the session we saw was to delay ending the game until the Condesce was defeated.
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Post by whitehelm on May 16, 2016 16:09:40 GMT
Definitely required stuff is: prototyping all the Kernelsprites before entry (with something that is not a First Guardian or similarly dangerous entity) Not really true. The trolls prototyped a Horrorterror and won their session. One of the players (presumably the leader of the session) needs to travel to the Veil and create themselves and their co-players (and their Guardians) through Ectobiology, so that they can be sent to the home planet on meteors. Not true for an average post-scratch session (which also may not have a scratch construct). As for pre-scratch sessions I think we only have speculation by Karkat that it always happens. I haven't checked if Hussie said anything though. The First Guardian needs to be created inside The Frog Temple and this meteor also needs to be sent to the home planet (through the Reckoning), so that the temple can be found so that SBURB can be created there in the first place. Only one session per universe/planet has to deliver the Frog Temple, and we know there were multiple sessions forming on B1. We don't know for sure whether or not any of those were successful.
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