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Post by TrickleJest on Sept 7, 2016 21:06:44 GMT
I hate Vriska I think everybody is white, even Roxy & Jade (whoopsies, I'm really not racist though) I love Act 1 - 3, and don't consider them to be dumb I consider skippers-to-Act-5 not actual fans, they chickened out Act 5 Act 1 wasn't amazing, it was pretty okay though None of these are unpopular. Yeah, I know. I had nothing.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Sept 8, 2016 7:18:07 GMT
My unpopular opinions: I still ship JohnVris, DaveRezi, RoseMary and JadeKat I like the ending The Beforans are interesting in their own right, and it would have been great if they were explored more I feel you on that first one even though my old ships are dead I'm starting to doubt that we're ever going to get an update after act 7, especially since Hussie and everyone seems to have left the internet/social media completely I still like Openbound and I still think it's fun. I admit that I see all the kids as white, but that's because of the fact that their sprites are white so it just automatically makes me see them Caucasian since it's the closest to white. (I swear I've said this somewhere else before on this forums, but can't remember where) (considering all the fanart I've seen, I'm not sure if this is an unpopular opinion or not) Vriska's arc should have ended completely when her story actually came to a conclusion at the end of act 5 (this may be a popular opinion but dunno for sure). As amazing as a lot of the characters of homestuck are, I don't think any of them had a good character arc after Act 5 and all of them could have been handled better especially the Scourge Sisters. I think ironically Vriska is the only character who's arc actually came to a conclusion that was satisfying at one point (very sad though, but it was still brilliant). Not even Roxy's character arc was satisfying for me because I never liked how her alcoholism was dealt with.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Sept 8, 2016 13:36:18 GMT
Vriska's arc should have ended completely when her story actually came to a conclusion at the end of act 5 (this may be a popular opinion but dunno for sure). There is no such thing as an unpopular oppinion about Vriska.
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Post by melonlord on Sept 8, 2016 17:13:48 GMT
Vriska's arc should have ended completely when her story actually came to a conclusion at the end of act 5 (this may be a popular opinion but dunno for sure). There is no such thing as an unpopular oppinion about Vriska. No such thing as a popular one either, honestly. Whatever you think of Vriska, a not-insignificant number of people will hate you for it.
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thedude3445
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Post by thedude3445 on Sept 11, 2016 13:16:58 GMT
More related to MSPA as a whole, but anyway: Problem Sleuth is better than Homestuck. That opinion will probably become a lot less unpopular over time. The gap between PS and HS was so short that PS has forever remained in the shadow of its successor, despite being pretty danged popular by the end of its run. In the future, Homestuck will probably be studied in classes on the many ways it experimented with narrative using the internet like almost no other work has done to such an extent so far, but Problem Sleuth will probably be the one that people hail as Hussie's classic. That is, unless Hussie finishes Whistles, obviously his true magnum opus if it ever got past volume 1. Can't remember if I said this opinion but it's still my favorite unpopular one: the Intermission was the best Act.
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anervaria
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Post by anervaria on Oct 4, 2016 3:45:51 GMT
Homestuck's ending ruined most of it for me.
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Post by cookiefonster on Oct 4, 2016 14:12:25 GMT
Homestuck's ending ruined most of it for me. Is that really unpopular? A lot of late comic stuff ruined stuff for me. For instance, Davekat kind of ruined both characters involved for me, as well as their friendship. Not even to speak of the retcon in its entirety.
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Post by tentacleTherapist on Oct 8, 2016 1:06:42 GMT
I don't like how far driven into the ground the revelation that the kids have biological connections with each other is. In some cases (Rose and Roxy and Dave and Dirk, most particularly) the in-story explanations make sense, but the others defining people by only a vague biological connection and not the weight of the relationship (or their nurtured characteristics) makes me a bit squeamish.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Oct 11, 2016 12:57:14 GMT
I don't like how far driven into the ground the revelation that the kids have biological connections with each other is. In some cases (Rose and Roxy and Dave and Dirk, most particularly) the in-story explanations make sense, but the others defining people by only a vague biological connection and not the weight of the relationship (or their nurtured characteristics) makes me a bit squeamish. Yeah, John is about the only character who thinks that sort of thing is weird.
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Post by feels like saying one thing on Oct 16, 2016 5:36:41 GMT
act five act one was a horrendous flip-flop and was impossible to coherently follow. and skipping to the end mad it feel like Hussie couldn't even understand it.
i hate all of the alpha kids, except Roxy, but only after she meets John.
i find it stupid how we got entire explanations on troll romance and other frivolous things, but we still have some classes and aspects that have yet to be seen in any meaningful way. why make the extra classes if not to use them?
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Post by ashercrane on Oct 16, 2016 6:37:22 GMT
act five act one was a horrendous flip-flop and was impossible to coherently follow. and skipping to the end mad it feel like Hussie couldn't even understand it. i hate all of the alpha kids, except Roxy, but only after she meets John. i find it stupid how we got entire explanations on troll romance and other frivolous things, but we still have some classes and aspects that have yet to be seen in any meaningful way. why make the extra classes if not to use them? What do you mean by not used? Went got Tier? Used flashy powers?
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Oct 17, 2016 14:25:38 GMT
I don't like how Hussie has hinted at a big project related to SBaHJ in his newsposts. I hate SBaHJ and really don't want to see it turn into something bigger than it is. Especially if it is in any way connected to Homestuck canon, as that would mean I'd actually have to read it.
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Post by digiornospizza on Oct 20, 2016 5:22:48 GMT
act five act one was a horrendous flip-flop and was impossible to coherently follow. and skipping to the end mad it feel like Hussie couldn't even understand it. i hate all of the alpha kids, except Roxy, but only after she meets John. i find it stupid how we got entire explanations on troll romance and other frivolous things, but we still have some classes and aspects that have yet to be seen in any meaningful way. why make the extra classes if not to use them? What do you mean by not used? Went got Tier? Used flashy powers? i think they are referring to the fact that some classes were never seen in sprite mode, we never found out about the full "active-passive" spectrum, and some classes have no information about what they do. (mage for example). and some aspects are also left up to our theorizing until hussie says something to shed some light on the classpect topic. (blood) or maybe i haven't been paying attention. one of the two.
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LunaWillow
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Post by LunaWillow on Dec 1, 2016 22:35:31 GMT
Hmm, okay.
Bro being abusive to Dave was handled very poorly. Looking at Dave's Act 5 character arc, and the whole 'im not as good as bro and john' stuff it feels as if Hussie went back on all of this in Act 6 just... because? I know in volume 3 of the books he hints at Bro's behaviour being abusive, and I'm not sure when exaclty the books were first sold since I haven't been along for that much. It just feels as if Hussie went back on the previous approach at Dave's arc for.... shock value? I really don't understand. And, as some other people in this thread pointed out, other kids also didn't have exaclty the most normal relationships with their guardians. I'm mostly talking about John here (since I believe Mom Lalonde's passive-aggressive behaviour was completely made up by Rose) and the whole attacking-my-dad-with-a-hammer thing. I don't know, is that kind of thing normal in the Egbert household? I believe Jane mentions somewhere that she used to strife her dad regularly when she was younger. And considering how similiar Dad Egbert and Dad Crocker are, I think it's save to assume that's true for John, too. And don't even get me started on Jade. Her Grandpa was stuffed, for God's sake. That means little Jade literally had to gut her own Grandpa! And it's most likely Grandpa that taught her how to do something like that, since I doubt little girl would look up how to gut someone's corpse and stuff it on the internet. An Bec, despite all his First Guardian powers, is still a dog in mind, so I doubt he could've helped her in any way. That's quite a lot of Nightmare Fuel and Fridge Horror when you think about it, just the same amount - if not more! - as Dave's case. And it's never adressed post-Acts 1-4. To be honest, to me it just felt as if that whole abuse thing came out of nowhere (though it might be my fault, since reading Homestuck I had a severe case of foreshadowing-blidness and failed to notice things and twists that should have been very obvious in hindsight) and it makes me feel rather uncomfortable and awkward. I know it's a delicate topic, and I hope no one here will hold grudge against me for what I said, but I just feel like Hussie didn't handle it very well.
I generally feel like Dave's character arc just goes... weird in Act 6. I can't quite put my finger on it, but he just seems different in a way and I don't like it. But I doubt this particular thing is an unpopular opinion.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Dec 2, 2016 0:15:20 GMT
Hmm, okay. Bro being abusive to Dave was handled very poorly. Looking at Dave's Act 5 character arc, and the whole 'im not as good as bro and john' stuff it feels as if Hussie went back on all of this in Act 6 just... because? I know in volume 3 of the books he hints at Bro's behaviour being abusive, and I'm not sure when exaclty the books were first sold since I haven't been along for that much. It just feels as if Hussie went back on the previous approach at Dave's arc for.... shock value? I really don't understand. And, as some other people in this thread pointed out, other kids also didn't have exaclty the most normal relationships with their guardians. I'm mostly talking about John here (since I believe Mom Lalonde's passive-aggressive behaviour was completely made up by Rose) and the whole attacking-my-dad-with-a-hammer thing. I don't know, is that kind of thing normal in the Egbert household? I believe Jane mentions somewhere that she used to strife her dad regularly when she was younger. And considering how similiar Dad Egbert and Dad Crocker are, I think it's save to assume that's true for John, too. And don't even get me started on Jade. Her Grandpa was stuffed, for God's sake. That means little Jade literally had to gut her own Grandpa! And it's most likely Grandpa that taught her how to do something like that, since I doubt little girl would look up how to gut someone's corpse and stuff it on the internet. An Bec, despite all his First Guardian powers, is still a dog in mind, so I doubt he could've helped her in any way. That's quite a lot of Nightmare Fuel and Fridge Horror when you think about it, just the same amount - if not more! - as Dave's case. And it's never adressed post-Acts 1-4. To be honest, to me it just felt as if that whole abuse thing came out of nowhere (though it might be my fault, since reading Homestuck I had a severe case of foreshadowing-blidness and failed to notice things and twists that should have been very obvious in hindsight) and it makes me feel rather uncomfortable and awkward. I know it's a delicate topic, and I hope no one here will hold grudge against me for what I said, but I just feel like Hussie didn't handle it very well. I generally feel like Dave's character arc just goes... weird in Act 6. I can't quite put my finger on it, but he just seems different in a way and I don't like it. But I doubt this particular thing is an unpopular opinion. A lot of people feel that way about Bro's treatment in the late comic actually.
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LunaWillow
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Post by LunaWillow on Dec 2, 2016 6:54:26 GMT
Really? Hmm. I feel like in some parts of the fandom, saying something like that would be considered heresy. I must spend too much time on tumblr. But I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that way.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Dec 4, 2016 8:21:33 GMT
The thing is though, it may seem out of place in the story, but the whole problem with Bro's abuse was mentioned in the published version of act 3. So Hussie may have intended Bro to be abusive all along but didn't bring it up in the web version until late for some reason. I don't really know. But I know for a fact that in act 2 and 3 when all that was happening, it wasn't taken seriously at all.
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Post by obsidalicious on Dec 4, 2016 8:55:30 GMT
The thing is though, it may seem out of place in the story, but the whole problem with Bro's abuse was mentioned in the published version of act 3. So Hussie may have intended Bro to be abusive all along but didn't bring it up in the web version until late for some reason. I don't really know. But I know for a fact that in act 2 and 3 when all that was happening, it wasn't taken seriously at all. The third book was published 12th October 2013. Hussie said that he had the story fully written out by the end of the Gigapause which ran from 16th Oct 2013 and lasted a year. So at most, that's only just over a year between Hussie first mentioning it and making it a part of the actual story. So we don't know that he was sitting on the idea for very long, at least in terms of the Comic's lifespan. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if going back over the old stuff while making Book 3 was what gave him the idea hence it being brought up in the commentary. The reference to child abuse would still been fresh in his head right as he sat down to write out the rest of the story.
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Post by amiabletemplar on Dec 4, 2016 10:05:05 GMT
Really? Hmm. I feel like in some parts of the fandom, saying something like that would be considered heresy. I must spend too much time on tumblr. But I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that way. Yeah, as usual, Tumblr is something of an echo-chamber for a specific group. So on the one hand, yes, I do think this would be an "unpopular" opinion, because a significant portion of the fanbase would express shock and even offense that you would think this. But I agree with you, and I imagine a lot of the people on this forum would, too. We're just supposed to swallow the idea that Rose has all these psychological problems because...she had a supportive mother who over-indulged in alcohol (I know what alcoholism does to families, and it doesn't lead to mothers who can be interpreted as passive-aggressive in their support), and Dave was incredibly fucked up and abused by a brother who...mostly just neglected him. Yet John and Jade are perfectly well-adjusted, normal people who really don't have any problems, despite the substantially more horrifying shit the latter was exposed to, and the clear comparisons that can be drawn between John and Dave wrt a violent, controlling parent. John just liked his Dad, while Dave competed with his Bro, and that's apparently what makes all the difference! My own unpopular opinion on Homestuck: I don't think Homestuck was meaningfully improved by any of its non-heterosexual relationships. Dave+Karkat was a throwaway, barely supported and totally meaningless narratively;* Vriska+Kanaya was apparently abusive and literally never shown apart from the betrayal itself, which is kind of an ass-backwards way of getting us to care about the relationship or the people involved; Tavros+Gamzee was clearly creepy and Tavros did not want it; Cronus+Mituna was literally bad-touching, shaming, and controlling a mentally disabled person; Aranea+Meenah was at best a non-relationship (that is, purely platonic) and at worst a case of mutual abuse and advantage-taking; Rose+Kanaya was so ineffectual that Kanaya, the ultimate supportive troll, couldn't even help Rose deal with her alcoholism without Vriska's support, and then stopped being a thing anyone talked about post-retcon; and Dirk+Jake had overtones of the Cronus+Mituna problems, being a manipulative asshole controlling and beguiling a mentally-challenged target into entering and maintaining a relationship. Oh, and then there's the non-ship between Horuss and Rufioh, which was built on infidelity and lies and then ended up amounting to nothing but passive-aggressive emotional manipulation and avoidance, too! Noticing a pattern, here? Hell, the only real "same-sex relationship" that actually mattered was goddamn Vriska+Terezi and that was a sister-sister thing, not a romance! It's just maddening. Hussie literally didn't write a single, actually homosexual relationship that wasn't, in some way, either deeply flawed or effectively worthless narratively (whether to the story as a whole or simply as a mini-arc within the overall story). Now, to be fair? I don't really think any of its heterosexual relationships improved the narrative much, either. But for a comic that clearly makes a point--a very big, very signposted, very obvious point--of being "progressive," it sure as hell doesn't read like a progressive thing. It reads like it's all signpost and no actual destination--"look how progressive we are!" rather than "here's the interesting, exciting, cool, surprising, human stories you can hear about people who happen to be gay/bi/trans/etc." It'd be real damn nice if we could get more homo/nonbinary/etc. relationships that were (a) well-written instead of throwaway crap, and (b) included in stories not because it makes the story progressive nor because it makes a political statement but because these are stories worth hearing. I would honestly prefer a story that is simply not "progressive" at all, because it doesn't care, over one that makes such a big point of being "progressive" only to put forward such awful and/or throwaway examples. *Note: I am NOT saying that Dave+Karkat is inherently meaningless. It's totally valid to say that their personalities complement or contrast in some particular way that makes for an interesting couple. I am strictly speaking in terms of the meaning Hussie employed or provided through having us see this relationship in the comic. Hussie literally made nothing of Dave
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Post by melonlord on Dec 4, 2016 14:22:19 GMT
*Note: I am NOT saying that Dave+Karkat is inherently meaningless. It's totally valid to say that their personalities complement or contrast in some particular way that makes for an interesting couple. I am strictly speaking in terms of the meaning Hussie employed or provided through having us see this relationship in the comic. Hussie literally made nothing of Dave This is the part that's really a shame, because Davekat is...honestly a pretty good ship? You have these two people who are actually pretty similar, but who both put up facades and hard shells to mask their vulnerabilities, which means that they often end up at each other's throats. We see this pre-retcon; they start off as bitter rivals, but gradually become frenemies and acquire some mutual respect for each other. Imagine if that had been developed further, if they had started to talk about things like their roles in the game, or their fucked-up ideals about heroism. Imagine if they started to break down each other's facades and realize how much they actually had in common. I would drop Karezi in a heartbeat for that. That isn't what we got, though. We got two characters who shared a certain dynamic, then both of those characters died and were replaced by versions with a markedly different dynamic (one founded on...shared love of WV, I guess?), which was exposited on after the fact by some textless fanart panels in a flash and a few rather stilted pesterlogs. We are then expected to care about their relationship, when it seems that there is not, in fact, any serious relationship to speak of. Hell, Karkat had more chemistry with KANAYA than with Dave. And while there are hints of something happening between them on the meteor, that was on the meteor, not here on-screen, and it's wrapped in so many layers of "are they or aren't they or ARE THEY OR AREN'T THEY" that it's hard to really give a shit about the whole thing. Davekat is a good ship, but its current incarnation in canon homestuck is dull as fuck and barely even there. There's my not-so-unpopular opinion, I guess.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Dec 4, 2016 14:52:15 GMT
Really? Hmm. I feel like in some parts of the fandom, saying something like that would be considered heresy. I must spend too much time on tumblr. But I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who thinks that way. Yeah, as usual, Tumblr is something of an echo-chamber for a specific group. So on the one hand, yes, I do think this would be an "unpopular" opinion, because a significant portion of the fanbase would express shock and even offense that you would think this. But I agree with you, and I imagine a lot of the people on this forum would, too. We're just supposed to swallow the idea that Rose has all these psychological problems because...she had a supportive mother who over-indulged in alcohol (I know what alcoholism does to families, and it doesn't lead to mothers who can be interpreted as passive-aggressive in their support), and Dave was incredibly fucked up and abused by a brother who...mostly just neglected him. Yet John and Jade are perfectly well-adjusted, normal people who really don't have any problems, despite the substantially more horrifying shit the latter was exposed to, and the clear comparisons that can be drawn between John and Dave wrt a violent, controlling parent. John just liked his Dad, while Dave competed with his Bro, and that's apparently what makes all the difference! My own unpopular opinion on Homestuck: I don't think Homestuck was meaningfully improved by any of its non-heterosexual relationships. Dave+Karkat was a throwaway, barely supported and totally meaningless narratively;* Vriska+Kanaya was apparently abusive and literally never shown apart from the betrayal itself, which is kind of an ass-backwards way of getting us to care about the relationship or the people involved; Tavros+Gamzee was clearly creepy and Tavros did not want it; Cronus+Mituna was literally bad-touching, shaming, and controlling a mentally disabled person; Aranea+Meenah was at best a non-relationship (that is, purely platonic) and at worst a case of mutual abuse and advantage-taking; Rose+Kanaya was so ineffectual that Kanaya, the ultimate supportive troll, couldn't even help Rose deal with her alcoholism without Vriska's support, and then stopped being a thing anyone talked about post-retcon; and Dirk+Jake had overtones of the Cronus+Mituna problems, being a manipulative asshole controlling and beguiling a mentally-challenged target into entering and maintaining a relationship. Oh, and then there's the non-ship between Horuss and Rufioh, which was built on infidelity and lies and then ended up amounting to nothing but passive-aggressive emotional manipulation and avoidance, too! Noticing a pattern, here? Hell, the only real "same-sex relationship" that actually mattered was goddamn Vriska+Terezi and that was a sister-sister thing, not a romance! It's just maddening. Hussie literally didn't write a single, actually homosexual relationship that wasn't, in some way, either deeply flawed or effectively worthless narratively (whether to the story as a whole or simply as a mini-arc within the overall story). Now, to be fair? I don't really think any of its heterosexual relationships improved the narrative much, either. But for a comic that clearly makes a point--a very big, very signposted, very obvious point--of being "progressive," it sure as hell doesn't read like a progressive thing. It reads like it's all signpost and no actual destination--"look how progressive we are!" rather than "here's the interesting, exciting, cool, surprising, human stories you can hear about people who happen to be gay/bi/trans/etc." It'd be real damn nice if we could get more homo/nonbinary/etc. relationships that were (a) well-written instead of throwaway crap, and (b) included in stories not because it makes the story progressive nor because it makes a political statement but because these are stories worth hearing. I would honestly prefer a story that is simply not "progressive" at all, because it doesn't care, over one that makes such a big point of being "progressive" only to put forward such awful and/or throwaway examples. *Note: I am NOT saying that Dave+Karkat is inherently meaningless. It's totally valid to say that their personalities complement or contrast in some particular way that makes for an interesting couple. I am strictly speaking in terms of the meaning Hussie employed or provided through having us see this relationship in the comic. Hussie literally made nothing of Dave I kind of agree here, in that people way overestimate the effect featuring homosexuality has on the comic. Some people seem to think that's one of the main themes of the comic but I never made much of it, just accepted it as a thing that was there. Also I could go on and on about how bad Davekat is at doing that sort of thing just because of how out of nowhere it is.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Dec 4, 2016 23:42:31 GMT
I thought a big point of Rose's character was not that she had a lot of psychological issues but that she made issues for herself. She was the precocious psychology buff who saw things that weren't there. That seemed to be the whole point of her and her mom's relationship; she saw a passive aggressive battle where there wasn't one. Personally, I don't much care about the relationships because as you said, basically no relationships in this thing were all that functional or added much to the story, homosexual, heterosexual or otherwise. Whether you think it excuses it or not, I think that was part of Homestuck's....uh....humor. If something can be stupid and awkward, or if anything can go wrong, it does and that is pretty much this comic's mission statement. I'm not ready to judge some things until everything's completely over, though.
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Dec 5, 2016 16:02:16 GMT
In Homestuck's defense, I like that many of the homosexual pairings were not good pairings. Many progressive works with the agenda of supporting homosexuality will ensure that the relationships portrayed are healthy to make the point that homosexuality is not bad. In Homestuck, however, homosexual relationships are treated in the same way as heterosexual relationships are, which is just as it should be. Now this is not to say there aren't problems with the way relationships are portrayed, I agree that there are many, but at least they are the same problems regardless of if the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual.
(Note that I'm skirting around the issues of the so called "gay singularity" as that is a different problem.)
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Post by amiabletemplar on Dec 5, 2016 23:38:49 GMT
In Homestuck's defense, I like that many of the homosexual pairings were not good pairings. Many progressive works with the agenda of supporting homosexuality will ensure that the relationships portrayed are healthy to make the point that homosexuality is not bad. In Homestuck, however, homosexual relationships are treated in the same way as heterosexual relationships are, which is just as it should be. Now this is not to say there aren't problems with the way relationships are portrayed, I agree that there are many, but at least they are the same problems regardless of if the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual. (Note that I'm skirting around the issues of the so called "gay singularity" as that is a different problem.) I'm not sure the portrayal really is even. Two of the main bi characters clearly cheat on their relationships (Vriska->Tavros, Rufioh->Horuss), and the two main gay relationships are rocky and fraught with problems, some of which are either insoluble or require Mary Sue assistance to resolve (Dirk+Jake being the former, Rose+Kanaya being the latter). And the only clearly awful, as in "this shit is illegal and should be condemned thoroughly," relationship is Cronus+Mitnua. Yeah, Vriska's emotionally abusive to Tavros and he eventually gets sick of it, but other than that, heterosexual relationships (where they show up at all) seem pretty stable and purely positive. Consider the portrayal of John's Dad and Rose's Mom, as the pinnacle of matespritship. Yes, we get to see that gays are real people, foibles and all, and that's certainly good too. It's just...well, in a story with so many gay relationships, and so few heterosexual ones, it'd be kinda nice if at least one of them was genuinely "working out." I guess maybe that's what Dave+Karkat is but...well, I've said my piece on why I think Dave+Karkat, as presented in Homestuck, is bad, whether you look at dialogue, story-function, or writing support for. More or less, I guess I'm arguing that the "gay singularity" actually does cause a problem here. With the majority of shown relationships being gay, and the majority of relationships being rocky as hell...well, it kinda comes across as soft-selling that gay relationships are for drama llamas, cheaters, and abusers. The closest we get to a "lecherous" straight character is Roxy, and she mostly keeps it to herself--and tries to clean up her act later. Whereas on the gay/bi side, we have Cronus, Gamzee, and Eridan. (Porrim is too classy to be "lecherous" per se, and she's representing the "liberated woman" archetype so sexual openness is expected, which is why I'm not including her in that list.) There's also Crockertier!Jane, but she's being corrupted by an evil computer so it's forgivable that she's letting loose impulses she normally wouldn't act on.
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Post by mementovivere on Dec 6, 2016 15:12:47 GMT
In Homestuck's defense, I like that many of the homosexual pairings were not good pairings. Many progressive works with the agenda of supporting homosexuality will ensure that the relationships portrayed are healthy to make the point that homosexuality is not bad. In Homestuck, however, homosexual relationships are treated in the same way as heterosexual relationships are, which is just as it should be. Now this is not to say there aren't problems with the way relationships are portrayed, I agree that there are many, but at least they are the same problems regardless of if the relationship is homosexual or heterosexual. (Note that I'm skirting around the issues of the so called "gay singularity" as that is a different problem.) I'm not sure the portrayal really is even. Two of the main bi characters clearly cheat on their relationships (Vriska->Tavros, Rufioh->Horuss), and the two main gay relationships are rocky and fraught with problems, some of which are either insoluble or require Mary Sue assistance to resolve (Dirk+Jake being the former, Rose+Kanaya being the latter). And the only clearly awful, as in "this shit is illegal and should be condemned thoroughly," relationship is Cronus+Mitnua. Yeah, Vriska's emotionally abusive to Tavros and he eventually gets sick of it, but other than that, heterosexual relationships (where they show up at all) seem pretty stable and purely positive. Consider the portrayal of John's Dad and Rose's Mom, as the pinnacle of matespritship. Yes, we get to see that gays are real people, foibles and all, and that's certainly good too. It's just...well, in a story with so many gay relationships, and so few heterosexual ones, it'd be kinda nice if at least one of them was genuinely "working out." I guess maybe that's what Dave+Karkat is but...well, I've said my piece on why I think Dave+Karkat, as presented in Homestuck, is bad, whether you look at dialogue, story-function, or writing support for. More or less, I guess I'm arguing that the "gay singularity" actually does cause a problem here. With the majority of shown relationships being gay, and the majority of relationships being rocky as hell...well, it kinda comes across as soft-selling that gay relationships are for drama llamas, cheaters, and abusers. The closest we get to a "lecherous" straight character is Roxy, and she mostly keeps it to herself--and tries to clean up her act later. Whereas on the gay/bi side, we have Cronus, Gamzee, and Eridan. (Porrim is too classy to be "lecherous" per se, and she's representing the "liberated woman" archetype so sexual openness is expected, which is why I'm not including her in that list.) There's also Crockertier!Jane, but she's being corrupted by an evil computer so it's forgivable that she's letting loose impulses she normally wouldn't act on. But see, if this were a comic about a bunch of 100% straight teens growing up and struggling to figure out relationship problems and themselves, nobody would ever think to be concerned that it's presenting straight relationships as being for "drama llamas, cheaters, and abusers". There are TONS of examples of stories just like that! Homestuck is ultimately a coming of age story, albeit set on a backdrop of cosmic fantasy shenanigans... having a bunch of flawed but sympathetic characters fucking up constantly and growing from it is practically a requirement for the genre. Expecting ANY of them to have a flawless relationship is setting yourself up for disappointment, and I really don't think it's fair to cast the story as being somehow problematic for treating all of the characters the same way regardless of their sexuality. I guess a lot of people would argue that the queer characters need to be held to different standards due to society and the history of queer portrayals in fiction being what they are, but as a queer artist myself, I would pretty strongly disagree, at least in Homestuck's particular case because it IS so good in its portrayal of queer characters as diverse, well-rounded people whose orientation is rarely a significant factor of their identity. Using Cronus, Gamzee and Eridan as an example of there being an overabundance of problematic bisexuals is blatantly disingenuous; they're pretty obviously lecherous because they have shitty personalities all around, not because they're bisexual. And when there are TWENTY OTHER TROLLS who effectively have the same default sexuality as them, it's reeeeeeeally reaching to suggest that those three characters should be taken as some kind of statement on their sexuality. And anyway, I think Rose/Kanaya are absolutely an example of a wholly stable and positive gay relationship, hence why they're the only ones to never break up and outright get married at the end of the comic. Vriska's presence didn't fix their relationship (Kanaya continued to support Rose to the best of her ability even when she was a drunken mess pre-retcon, and outright dismisses the notion that she wants to break up with Rose over it) but Vriska WAS imposing enough to nip Rose's alcoholism in the bud (which is a personal issue separate from relationship instability).
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