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Post by PieTheDerptacular on Apr 13, 2016 23:23:11 GMT
Did anyone else half expect everyone on the lilypad to go through the door and pop out of the Juju? I didn't before the Flash, but during the Flash the way it was presented I started to anticipate it.
I kind of have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I can probably accept it as an ending, and it really was an amazing flash. I just was expecting a bit more clarification. Yay, Homestuck: The Anime is kind of real now.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 13, 2016 23:23:25 GMT
My theory for how Hussie plans to resolve all of this: Epilogue 1
Epilogue 2
Epilogue 3
Intermission 3
Epilogue 4
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 2
Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6
Epilogue 7
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 13, 2016 23:25:25 GMT
I'm not suggesting that you should have to read a fanfic to understand the story or the ending. When I mentioned fanfics, I wasn't even referring to ones specifically happening relating to the ending itself, but the various alternate paths that diverged well before hand. Discounting fanfics for a moment, there are countless possible outcomes for the ending here that could exist! Each one of them have as valid of an influence on reality as the next one! It doesn't matter if they loop back around to the "Alpha" time line or not. They still influence the ultimate ending to some degree or another. All I'm saying is... the open ending is simply the manifestation of the possible outcomes each becoming their own thing. Fans writing their own outcomes are simply ways for people to explore those different divergent paths. But we've been following the alpha timeline pretty much this entire time. We can all write about possible alternate timelines, but it's not a replacement for finally seeing the main plot of the alpha timeline come together. What about all of Act 6 before Game Over? Even though that was the Alpha Timeline, it is no longer the main Timeline. And we did see the main plot of the Alpha Timeline come together. The main plot was about creating a new universe and escaping the influence of the Green Sun.
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Post by PieTheDerptacular on Apr 13, 2016 23:30:33 GMT
My theory for how Hussie plans to resolve all of this: Epilogue 1
Epilogue 2
Epilogue 3
Intermission 3
Epilogue 4
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 2
Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6
Epilogue 7
Complete with an Epilogue version of Cascade.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 13, 2016 23:39:28 GMT
But we've been following the alpha timeline pretty much this entire time. We can all write about possible alternate timelines, but it's not a replacement for finally seeing the main plot of the alpha timeline come together. What about all of Act 6 before Game Over? Even though that was the Alpha Timeline, it is no longer the main Timeline. And we did see the main plot of the Alpha Timeline come together. The main plot was about creating a new universe and escaping the influence of the Green Sun. Yes, and since they're both alpha timelines, we got to see both. I just meant that imagining possible alternate timelines isn't the same as seeing how the main timeline finally works out. The main plot used to only be about creating a new universe, but it's grown tremendously since then. And the Green Sun was really only a problem because it powered Bec Noir, who is no longer a threat. If Lord English does have first guardian powers, he rarely uses them, because his other powers are so much stronger. They created their universe, and that's pretty much the only thing that was resolved. We don't know what Calliope's sacrifice achieved, why the kids appeared in the Masterpiece, how the juju works, or whether Lord English is even defeated...or several smaller things like the nature of the rings of Life and Void, the "Erisolsprite difference", why Union Jack turned into a black hole, where LE got the Cairo Overcoat or the ability to extend the lifespans of others...etc. We don't even know if the universe that the kids created is safe from LE, or from Calliope's growing black hole. Not to mention the complete lack of any dialog between characters after they finally win, after all this time. I don't think Hussie could have chosen a worse series of conversations to skip.
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cookiefonster
Dead
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 13, 2016 23:41:08 GMT
Not to mention the complete lack of any dialog between characters after they finally win, after all this time. I don't think Hussie could have chosen a worse series of conversations to skip. I KNOW RIGHT. Seriously is it so much to ask for to get, let's say, Jade having a conversation with Jake? Or with Dave or Karkat? Or Jake having a conversation with Jane or Dirk? Dammit there's so many conversations that should've happened but didn't.
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Post by mageddondreams on Apr 13, 2016 23:43:44 GMT
I think one of the main plot points that I'm pissed off about is that Blood powers never really got told what they actually did. I was expecting Karkat to finally use blood powers in the final or something. Tying Clover up rather than hitting him with a sickle is of a piece with binding his session's Jack as a blood brother and holding his team together when, as Vriska acknowledges to John somewhere late in Act 5, by all rights they should have been killing each other left right and centre, works for me as consistently establishing what Blood powers do. Even pacifying Gamzee just before Cascade fits. They bind. They hold people together. Karkat's been using them effectively all along without realising.
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 13, 2016 23:46:21 GMT
Not to mention the complete lack of any dialog between characters after they finally win, after all this time. I don't think Hussie could have chosen a worse series of conversations to skip. I KNOW RIGHT. Seriously is it so much to ask for to get, let's say, Jade having a conversation with Jake? Or with Dave or Karkat? Or Jake having a conversation with Jane or Dirk? Dammit there's so many conversations that should've happened but didn't. My biggest unmet want will always be the four kids acting together as a team by themselves and having conversations amongst themselves. The trolls got their multi-person conversations but the 4 kids never got to have a dialogue with just them. It does seem like there's a lot of negative reaction to the ending. JK Rowling got a lot of bad press for her epilogue ending too. Would Andrew have gotten just as much flack had he ended by looking multiple years in the future? Hell, he still might. But it might be one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations. I know we're arguing here about what would have been a better ending. But I bet a LOT of the endings Andrew could have went with would have ended in disappoint for a sizable portion of the fandom. It's hard to put an ending note on something that has encouraged creative thinking throughout it. For a work that encourages playing with the characters and ideas.
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Post by mageddondreams on Apr 13, 2016 23:48:09 GMT
You know. Even if the epilogue ties up all loose ends magically, I'll still be disappointing. A happy ending on such a easy note is not what I wanted for Homestuck. Sure, it could have a happy ending, but it's like we were lead to believe something incredibly bad would happen... and then... it just didn't. It was just. "The evil is defeated" and then everyone is happy. I don't mind a happy ending. A EASY happy ending on a story like THIS, however, is disappointing as all hell. We don't know they get a happy ending. Anything could be waiting beyond that door. We just saw a look forward in time to a way they could end up happy.
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partymember57
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Post by partymember57 on Apr 13, 2016 23:55:38 GMT
I just realized something: Remember how LE made a big ring of crack's around the Green Sun? Since Alt Calliope was destroying it/sucking it into nothing via black hole, and we saw the cracks break in a huge way, what if this doesn't destroy Paradox Space and just leaves a huge hole instead? They would be "sinking" LE to tie in with the billiards symbolism, obviously. But that means that the damage would have been confined to one area. So we can assume that the Genesis Frog doesn't get destroyed, and even if LE is still alive, he's trapped inside a closed off pocket of reality.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 14, 2016 0:01:06 GMT
I just realized something: Remember how LE made a big ring of crack's around the Green Sun? Since Alt Calliope was destroying it/sucking it into nothing via black hole, and we saw the cracks break in a huge way, what if this doesn't destroy Paradox Space and just leaves a huge hole instead? They would be "sinking" LE to tie in with the billiards symbolism, obviously. But that means that the damage would have been confined to one area. So we can assume that the Genesis Frog doesn't get destroyed, and even if LE is still alive, he's trapped inside a closed off pocket of reality. Yes, this would be a pretty nice theory about how to defeat an undefeatable villain like him; and it would at least give some sense to the whole "destroy the Green Sun" business. Although it doesn't explain the role of the House Juju. Anyway, it's only a theory: we can guess how much we want, but we are not actually seeing what happens to him.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 0:11:08 GMT
I just realized something: Remember how LE made a big ring of crack's around the Green Sun? Since Alt Calliope was destroying it/sucking it into nothing via black hole, and we saw the cracks break in a huge way, what if this doesn't destroy Paradox Space and just leaves a huge hole instead? They would be "sinking" LE to tie in with the billiards symbolism, obviously. But that means that the damage would have been confined to one area. So we can assume that the Genesis Frog doesn't get destroyed, and even if LE is still alive, he's trapped inside a closed off pocket of reality. Cal is still out there in the Void. What stops another incarnation of LE from popping up in another universe? In fact, why THIS particular incarnation of him got so hell-bent on fucking up FR? What was even the point?You know what, I'll just dump this link here: imgur.com/a/9ucF7
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Post by thezcmme on Apr 14, 2016 0:12:48 GMT
Several people on other websites have mentioned this already but I saw no one mention here. The First question on Homestuck: What will the name of this young man be? The Last answer on Homestuck: That's the best fucking question, Anybody ever asked.
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Post by bzakbzakbzak on Apr 14, 2016 0:27:02 GMT
I could be completely off base here, but I saw the whole of Act 7 as the creation of a new world where a version of everyone got to live out happy lives. Alt Calliope depowered LE and created the pocket to sink him in. Meanwhile, the power of creation (which was finally able to be unleashed because everyone defeated all the villains in the session) was combined with the remnants of the world Jade was holding. Their task complete, the "gods" then prepare to step through the door to come face to face with their enemy (LE) at the end of all things.
Hits most of the necessary points for a creation myth and pantheon there.
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soeroah
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
Posts: 174
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Post by soeroah on Apr 14, 2016 0:59:15 GMT
Green Sun black hole = pocket Lord English gets 8-ball eyes When Vriska unleashed the Treasure, before it turned into the House it looked suspiciously like a cue ball
So it seems the intended interpretation is that the House would somehow blast Lord English into the new singularity he helped craft as part of his masterpiece of destruction. I wonder if that would do what I joked about long ago and cause his 'essence' to spread throughout the Furthest Ring, ever-present but harmless, always already everywhere?
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 14, 2016 1:03:26 GMT
What about all of Act 6 before Game Over? Even though that was the Alpha Timeline, it is no longer the main Timeline. And we did see the main plot of the Alpha Timeline come together. The main plot was about creating a new universe and escaping the influence of the Green Sun. Yes, and since they're both alpha timelines, we got to see both. I just meant that imagining possible alternate timelines isn't the same as seeing how the main timeline finally works out. The main plot used to only be about creating a new universe, but it's grown tremendously since then. And the Green Sun was really only a problem because it powered Bec Noir, who is no longer a threat. If Lord English does have first guardian powers, he rarely uses them, because his other powers are so much stronger. They created their universe, and that's pretty much the only thing that was resolved. We don't know what Calliope's sacrifice achieved, why the kids appeared in the Masterpiece, how the juju works, or whether Lord English is even defeated...or several smaller things like the nature of the rings of Life and Void, the "Erisolsprite difference", why Union Jack turned into a black hole, where LE got the Cairo Overcoat or the ability to extend the lifespans of others...etc. We don't even know if the universe that the kids created is safe from LE, or from Calliope's growing black hole. Not to mention the complete lack of any dialog between characters after they finally win, after all this time. I don't think Hussie could have chosen a worse series of conversations to skip. From Calliope's Pep Talk from Jade: Answer.UU: it is the day whereafter the legendary octet of mUtUal progenitoriety will come together and heal a great breach in paradox space. UU: a day delivered throUgh eighty billion years and foUr distinct Universal instances worth of Unfathomable tUrbUlence. UU: and while the emerald eye of this storm is fixed in the abyss forever UU: today yoU are poised to escape its scowl once and for all. UU: by skaias gUiding light, yoU may leave behind its tUrning arms of bright coloUrs and mayhem, and secUre peace for yoUr cosmic progeny for all dUration. Escaping the Green Sun was always the plan.
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imglasses
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Post by imglasses on Apr 14, 2016 1:03:58 GMT
I thought this was nice, to put everything in perspective. From Calliope's Pep Talk from Jade: Answer.UU: it is the day whereafter the legendary octet of mUtUal progenitoriety will come together and heal a great breach in paradox space. UU: a day delivered throUgh eighty billion years and foUr distinct Universal instances worth of Unfathomable tUrbUlence. UU: and while the emerald eye of this storm is fixed in the abyss forever UU: today yoU are poised to escape its scowl once and for all. UU: by skaias gUiding light, yoU may leave behind its tUrning arms of bright coloUrs and mayhem, and secUre peace for yoUr cosmic progeny for all dUration. Escaping the Green Sun was always the plan. Well, yes, I knew you were referencing the "emerald eye of this storm" quote. But we were never given a reason why alt. Calliope made a big sacrifice just to destroy the Green Sun. The Green Sun wasn't really a threat anymore.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 1:08:15 GMT
I could be completely off base here, but I saw the whole of Act 7 as the creation of a new world where a version of everyone got to live out happy lives. Alt Calliope depowered LE and created the pocket to sink him in. Meanwhile, the power of creation (which was finally able to be unleashed because everyone defeated all the villains in the session) was combined with the remnants of the world Jade was holding. Their task complete, the "gods" then prepare to step through the door to come face to face with their enemy (LE) at the end of all things. Hits most of the necessary points for a creation myth and pantheon there. I actually really like that theory. The idea of every version getting to live out happy lives sounds very satisfying.
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soeroah
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
Posts: 174
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Post by soeroah on Apr 14, 2016 1:08:30 GMT
Green Sun's destruction awarded a decent hole for English to get punted into and contained, as far as I'm concerned. The most juicy part is English weakened the area around it to make it possible to create a mega-black hole.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 14, 2016 1:10:41 GMT
Read this and burn it into your souls: imgur.com/a/9ucF7Edit: Just noticed I got ninja'd, sorry.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 1:14:02 GMT
^ Lol I just saw that on reddit. Vriska being the main character for the last majority of the comic actually seems on point now that I think about it. Problems 3, 5, 6 and 7 was definitely the biggest issue for me.
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 14, 2016 1:15:21 GMT
I just realized something: Remember how LE made a big ring of crack's around the Green Sun? Since Alt Calliope was destroying it/sucking it into nothing via black hole, and we saw the cracks break in a huge way, what if this doesn't destroy Paradox Space and just leaves a huge hole instead? They would be "sinking" LE to tie in with the billiards symbolism, obviously. But that means that the damage would have been confined to one area. So we can assume that the Genesis Frog doesn't get destroyed, and even if LE is still alive, he's trapped inside a closed off pocket of reality. Cal is still out there in the Void. What stops another incarnation of LE from popping up in another universe? In fact, why THIS particular incarnation of him got so hell-bent on fucking up FR? What was even the point?You know what, I'll just dump this link here: imgur.com/a/9ucF7But John did fight Lord English, three times in fact. He fought him in Game Over, he fought him in Caliborn's Masterpiece, and he was in the House Juju, so he likely fought after Vriska activated it. Anyway, Lord English never was the antagonist. His blood ran with Red Herrings, after all. The antagonist does not actually have to be an individual.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 1:16:52 GMT
I thought all four beta kids should have fought LE, not just John. And if they did fight LE, I'm rather pissed it happened off screen as usual.
But eh, LE was a terrible antagonist anyway. I liked how more focus was on Condy and Bec.
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Post by DS Piron on Apr 14, 2016 1:20:14 GMT
< Andrew Hussie doesn't know his own work. On it's premier, I remember him calling Cascade the climax of Homestuck, and everything past that the falling action. Except Lord English was only in the narrative by influence (and secretly, Cal), and Bec Noir would eventually reach the alpha session and repeat what he did before.
I'm not a literary, anything, but I don't think you introduce new complications during the falling action, you resolve all the pre-existing ones. The Climax should've been in Collide, but the battle against Lord English didn't even end in Act 7.
Ultimately, the biggest flaw in Homestuck was that it grew beyond Hussie's capabilities to write it competently, being left as nothing but an echo of what could've been the next great work of our time.
Ideally, Hussie shouldn't be handling anymore writing for Homestuck's successors. >
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dldracorex
Jade Sylph
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 14, 2016 1:20:17 GMT
On the subject of that imgur post: no, the rules of writing are subjective, otherwise all of would dislike this ending.
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