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Post by Arashi500 on Jan 18, 2017 1:48:17 GMT
Hi there. I am relatively new to the forum and the whole HS shebang, but I have had this one idea for a fanventure-like story in my head for a while now. I've got a pretty good feel for what it's going to be, but the details of plot and continuity are still WIP. Now the issue for me is that my art skills (drawing and sketching, to be exact) are subpar, especially on a computer, even with drawing tablet. (The horrible thing is: I just can't draw, when I have an image base I can edit the crap out of it.) I've had the idea to simply make it more of a text-based "fanventure/fanstory" but I dread that it might not be enough to keep people interested along all the other great visual art. It's just that the time which I would spend on making really shitty panels could be much better spent on developing the story. My question is, would YOU read an entirely text-based story, if detailed enough? Maybe with some "concept art" at pivotal points? I planned on making some voiceover readings for it as well, to make it a little more multimedia and engaging. Do you have any thoughts? There are a number of text-based Adventures, so you might to look to those for ideas of what to do and what not to do. Text Adventures do tend to get noticeably fewer readers and thus commenters, but this is an issue with most Adventures regardless of medium(s) used simply because the audience actively looking for new Adventures to read is so small. Going text-only might even better serve your story depending on how long you want it to take to get things in motion. |
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tronn
Rungjumpin' Ragamuffin
Posts: 287
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Post by tronn on Jan 18, 2017 7:11:14 GMT
Quality of art does not correlate with adventure's popularity. Pretty pictures might sway a potential reader to take a look, but are not the main reason why they stay. In fact putting lot of time into art is counterproductive because it makes updating slower. You do want some art - text only adventures are less popular (reasons why would be an interesting topic) - but even one or two pictures per update is enough.
What makes an adventure popular, you might ask? Ease of fan works and shipping potential. Take the archetypal Homestuck for example. It has average art (but they're sprites so the assets are easily reused), and has an entire framework ready for you to insert your OC and start a fanventure of your own. The cast is large and has plenty of potential for different pairings.
As for your question, no, I don't read text adventures even if the writing is good. They just don't capture my imagination which is a pity.
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inspiredsimji
Gritty Midget
Posts: 263
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by inspiredsimji on Jan 18, 2017 7:14:02 GMT
Like what other people are saying, even if the art sucks as long as it's updating at a reasonable, consistent rate it'll have an audience. A lot of people don't like text adventures, and the only way to get better at drawing is to draw, so I'd say draw it, even if you're not confident it your art.
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tronn
Rungjumpin' Ragamuffin
Posts: 287
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Post by tronn on Jan 18, 2017 7:22:30 GMT
Like what other people are saying, even if the art sucks as long as it's updating at a reasonable, consistent rate it'll have an audience. A lot of people don't like text adventures, and the only way to get better at drawing is to draw, so I'd say draw it, even if you're not confident it your art. This, too. I started my first adventure on the now defunct MSPA forums as a way to learn to draw, from literal zero skills. Running one is a good way to make yourself practice more! |
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Post by tailortf on Jan 18, 2017 10:34:22 GMT
Definitely true. One of the best parts of a forum adventure is that it forces you to draw things outside of your comfort zone (unless you want all your characters to reside in whitespace and be multicolored blobs). Heck, one of the main reasons I started Cult Following is because I wanted some practice with drawing people wearing hoods. If you keep it up, it's some of the best art practice you can get.
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Post by continuityofficer on Jan 18, 2017 14:14:49 GMT
Legit. doing is the best way to become better. Most importantly infact, better then even trying to learn how to draw in a class or something, it helps you develop a *style* too. Something that works for you and achieves what you want. You'll always be improving. My adventure has been going on for nearly a year now, and there's a very clear improvement (although its hard to call myself good) For example, here's a panel from early in the comic, compared to a more recent one   You'll note also that there's a lot more crying in the more recent parts of the adventure. lol.
These arent just useful in MSPA adventures either where your expected to be minimalist and look kind of bad. A developed style is a base foundation for more complex art aswell. For example, here's some art I created for DnD character portraits that I put more work into:
I think despite these images being much better then my quicker done ones for the comic, you can still see the style bleed through, and I wouldn't be able to make anything even a modicome of good if I hadn't developed my style first.
Even with a bad start and a not great now, i've garnered a fair sized fanbase, and more importantly for the long term created a style that I like, is easy enough for me to draw
So just try, and remember not to worry to much. Worrying is why people quit.
EDIT: Also, remember to always have a reference. Homestuck, Dead Dead Demon's DeDeDe De Destruction and Dangan Ronpa are definitely big inspirations for me style and character design wise. But you'd be surprised how helpful it can be to use Nintendo's Mii's as a way to get some variety in your characters. They are super simplistic and easy to put into any style, plus have a large variety of interesting eyes, mouths, hair and similar features that can help you when your in a design rut.
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Final Cat
Stoutrunt
Live translating kitty pidgin
Posts: 160
Pronouns: I'd rather not say
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Post by Final Cat on Jan 19, 2017 2:13:01 GMT
Because i guess i had to put it here
Alright, so I came up with some fanventure concepts for a hypothetical sburbventure which I would make, so I'd appreciate critique.
1. Imaginary realm (obviously based off Problem Sleuth)
Magic windows/fenestrated planes still ways of access; Beasts will become normal enemies?
Alternative ways include sleep, and filling your IMAGINATION THERMOMETER:
Ways of filling include being inspired, consuming calories and/or tryptophan in excess, or a sugar rush.
Once filled you will begin to daydream.
Stronger enemies will spawn in the Imaginary realm, and if you're on a Land, the terrain will be similar in properties, but vastly different in other ways.
2. Special Grist
These types of grist can be turned into other grist, change or corrupt the properties of alchemized items they are added into, or other undecided things
Can be created from certain items using a modification to a Sburb version of the Gristwidget 12000 (The batterwitch doesn't exist in-universe?)
3. Additional machines meant to be plugged into the Sburb-running device
(the name says everything)
This is all I can come up with right now; Please let me know what you think!
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tronn
Rungjumpin' Ragamuffin
Posts: 287
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Post by tronn on Jan 19, 2017 6:08:57 GMT
Quality of an adventure isn't dependent on the gimmick. Those ideas are all good, but aren't enough to carry the adventure on their own. Focus on characters and story instead, worry about mechanics less.
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Post by continuityofficer on Jan 19, 2017 10:49:47 GMT
Remember, making an adventure is basically like DMong with less rules and also you control the characters.
Don't plan too much, but know your setting, your characters, your NPCs, what they can do, the mechanics of your world>
Tips for DMs will help you just as much. Don't railroad too much, that said, don't be afraid to include systems that can push people back into action. Think about the "feeling" you want to illicit from your adventure, and create the setting and characters around that. Be consistent and don't break your own rules, that said, don't be afraid to bullshit things back into constancy if you make a mistake. Prioritise the story above all else, but if someone comes up with a really cool idea that ruins your original plans, don't punish them, let them succeed, but if you have too, maybe "not as much" as they need to, or use your understanding of the setting to rework things.
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Post by slangens on Jan 19, 2017 12:57:17 GMT
Don't railroad too much, that said, don't be afraid to include systems that can push people back into action. Think about the "feeling" you want to illicit from your adventure, and create the setting and characters around that. Be consistent and don't break your own rules, that said, don't be afraid to bullshit things back into constancy if you make a mistake. Prioritise the story above all else, but if someone comes up with a really cool idea that ruins your original plans, don't punish them, let them succeed, but if you have too, maybe "not as much" as they need to, or use your understanding of the setting to rework things. Dito. I could not agree more. Thanks, everyone, for being so supportive! I have thought about it and already started preparing some resources to use, and I will practice little more to use some images then (the characters front is still a war for me, though). Plot is taking more shape as I speak. But that said, what does DM stand for? |
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Post by continuityofficer on Jan 19, 2017 13:13:49 GMT
Don't railroad too much, that said, don't be afraid to include systems that can push people back into action. Think about the "feeling" you want to illicit from your adventure, and create the setting and characters around that. Be consistent and don't break your own rules, that said, don't be afraid to bullshit things back into constancy if you make a mistake. Prioritise the story above all else, but if someone comes up with a really cool idea that ruins your original plans, don't punish them, let them succeed, but if you have too, maybe "not as much" as they need to, or use your understanding of the setting to rework things. Dito. I could not agree more. Thanks, everyone, for being so supportive! I have thought about it and already started preparing some resources to use, and I will practice little more to use some images then (the characters front is still a war for me, though). Plot is taking more shape as I speak. But that said, what does DM stand for? Dungeon Master, also sometimes referred to as Game Master. Its a tabletop RPG term referring to the person who controls everything but the players |
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Jan 19, 2017 18:27:16 GMT
One thing you need to realize is that forum adventures are not video games. While mechanics can make things interesting and provide good guidelines, too much focus on them can make things hard to keep track of, stifle creative suggestions, and ultimately get in the way of telling a good story. There's a reason why Homestuck loses focus on inventory shenanigans and never bothers to keep track of how exactly much grist people have. With that in mind: Idea one seems like an interesting gimmick to use, though, as has been said, there needs to be more than just the gimmick. With idea two, if you actually put enough focus on it for it not to be pointless, then you're likely focusing too much on the mechanics as I mentioned above. Finally, idea three is a bit more reasonable, as it changes the way things can be created rather than the specifics of how to do so, but it's hardly a major enough idea to base an entire adventure off of; it's more something to tack onto an existing adventure that might occasionally come up. |
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Final Cat
Stoutrunt
Live translating kitty pidgin
Posts: 160
Pronouns: I'd rather not say
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Post by Final Cat on Jan 19, 2017 19:45:18 GMT
Thanks. I'm really going to try and write a good story. The only problem is I can't draw for shit.
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Post by continuityofficer on Jan 19, 2017 23:21:42 GMT
I wrote a thing on this a while ago about the brilliance of the alignment system in DnD and how that can help you with your adventures. The allignment system doesnt give your characters a rule of how to act, but instead an illicited feeling of how they should, a voice that can be drawn from with RP. This should be the same with your mechanics, they dont need to be detailed or complex , they dont even need to be specific, but they should illicit a feeling that people should understand veigly what they *can* do. Vague powers with lots of possibilities are better then really specific ones.
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Post by Arashi500 on Jan 20, 2017 1:44:57 GMT
One thing you need to realize is that forum adventures are not video games. While mechanics can make things interesting and provide good guidelines, too much focus on them can make things hard to keep track of, stifle creative suggestions, and ultimately get in the way of telling a good story. There's a reason why Homestuck loses focus on inventory shenanigans and never bothers to keep track of how exactly much grist people have. I actually kinda disagree here. Not that you necessarily have to run them like one, but Adventures are games, many of which are games as much if not more so than they are stories. That's one of the beauties of the medium/genre/format (what would you even call it?), that the two can intersect much more than a pre-planned non-interactive story of any kind can without necessitating a dip in the engaging aspects of either the mechanical or narrative element. |
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Jan 20, 2017 6:32:21 GMT
One thing you need to realize is that forum adventures are not video games. While mechanics can make things interesting and provide good guidelines, too much focus on them can make things hard to keep track of, stifle creative suggestions, and ultimately get in the way of telling a good story. There's a reason why Homestuck loses focus on inventory shenanigans and never bothers to keep track of how exactly much grist people have. I actually kinda disagree here. Not that you necessarily have to run them like one, but Adventures are games, many of which are games as much if not more so than they are stories. That's one of the beauties of the medium/genre/format (what would you even call it?), that the two can intersect much more than a pre-planned non-interactive story of any kind can without necessitating a dip in the engaging aspects of either the mechanical or narrative element. I never said forum adventures aren't games; I said that they're not video games. Video games are limited by every possibility needing to be programmed, but by being on a computer that responds nearly instantly to actions, they can handle complex systems in a way that makes it fast and easy for the user. Forum adventures are the opposite: Given that they are run by humans, and that they have to wait for suggestions between updates, complex stat systems are not really feasible, but they can be open-ended and handle unanticipated suggestions. |
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Post by continuityofficer on Jan 20, 2017 6:53:39 GMT
It is very important that people know your rules atleast, If you just say yes or no randomly, it comes of as bullshit and pointless
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Post by Arashi500 on Jan 20, 2017 9:55:47 GMT
I actually kinda disagree here. Not that you necessarily have to run them like one, but Adventures are games, many of which are games as much if not more so than they are stories. That's one of the beauties of the medium/genre/format (what would you even call it?), that the two can intersect much more than a pre-planned non-interactive story of any kind can without necessitating a dip in the engaging aspects of either the mechanical or narrative element. I never said forum adventures aren't games; I said that they're not video games. Video games are limited by every possibility needing to be programmed, but by being on a computer that responds nearly instantly to actions, they can handle complex systems in a way that makes it fast and easy for the user. Forum adventures are the opposite: Given that they are run by humans, and that they have to wait for suggestions between updates, complex stat systems are not really feasible, but they can be open-ended and handle unanticipated suggestions. I would disagree about that too, but I suppose that's more about the semantics of what someone does and does not consider a "video game" more than anything. |
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Post by eerr on Jan 20, 2017 19:58:18 GMT
Here's a question:
How do you define forum adventure? (or internet suggestion game)
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Post by slangens on Jan 20, 2017 22:06:30 GMT
A Multimedia, mixed-genre web-based interactive storytelling framework in which visual artwork is used in conjunction with text and other display of content while being (not necessarily continuously) subjected to the suggestions of readers which indirectly influence the plot and participating characters of the story. Forum adventures are, as suggested by name, commonly hosted by internet forum boards, which give a way for the audience to interact with the author(s), thus giving possibility to the suggestion mechanic in the production of the work.
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Post by Arashi500 on Jan 20, 2017 22:16:18 GMT
Here's a question:How do you define forum adventure? (or internet suggestion game) Now that's a toughie. A Multimedia, mixed-genre web-based interactive storytelling framework in which visual artwork is used in conjunction with text and other display of content while being (not necessarily continuously) subjected to the suggestions of readers which indirectly influence the plot and participating characters of the story. Forum adventures are, as suggested by name, commonly hosted by internet forum boards, which give a way for the audience to interact with the author(s), thus giving possibility to the suggestion mechanic in the production of the work. In so many words, this seems an accurate, if long winded answer. But it really is a difficult concept to describe in a quick "10 words or less" kinda blurb. |
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Post by Pulsar on Jan 21, 2017 0:44:59 GMT
Here's a question: How do you define forum adventure? (or internet suggestion game) A community-involved story-building project creatively administered by the OP who fields suggestions by interested responders. |
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Jan 23, 2017 19:51:20 GMT
Here's a question: How do you define forum adventure? (or internet suggestion game) A story, usually done on an internet forum, which updates in small chunks and what happens is influnced by the reasers suggesting things between each update. |
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Post by continuityofficer on Feb 4, 2017 13:09:55 GMT
Really good video on what makes an adventure an adventure and not just a story.
And really, a really good video on what makes these things an adventure and kind of unique.
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The One Guy
Rust Maid
Posts: 1,148
Pronouns: he/him/his
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Post by The One Guy on Feb 6, 2017 19:34:10 GMT
It's a good video, and it certainly got me thinking, but I don't feel the advice given is 100% relevant for forum adventures. He describes DnD, which is very heavily roleplay, but what works best for DnD is not nessesarily what works best for other things. Take video games, for instance: Are western RPGs inherently better than JRPGs because they focus less on "story" and more on "adventure?" I feel like forum adventures can span a wide range between story and adventure, and while they certainly need to be more interactive than, say, a visual novel, they don't nessesarily need to go full DnD level roleplay.
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