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Post by Gab on Mar 3, 2017 21:59:49 GMT
It depends on when and how literally that applies. Terezi was able to one-shot a presumably high-level God Tier, for instance.
Got Tier levels represent a way for characters to continue growing stronger. Maybe it represents a level beyond normal limits (even though characters can already become super strong)?
That is to say, if things like the echeladder aren't a super strict thing that can never be defied, it would be hypothetically possible for someone to become as strong as a God Tier without becoming one, if they have sufficiently "awakened" their inner abilities. Again, Terezi seemed to be able to stand on fairly even ground with two God Tiers, and engage in fraymotifs with them.
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 3, 2017 22:45:37 GMT
It depends on when and how literally that applies. Terezi was able to one-shot a presumably high-level God Tier, for instance. Since being a Thief of Light isn't anything to do with tankiness, I doubt that this is particularly relevant to how awakened Vriska's abilites are. Possible, but that just seems like your idea of God Tier level 2 is just what most people think of God Tier level 1 i.e. you've just shifted the powerup(s) over to a far less ceremonial and meaningful moment which makes the system a bit odd over all, like if in DBZ Goku didn't actually gain any powerup from reaching Super Saiyan, just the hair and rage, but SSJ2/SSJ3/ SSJ4/SSJBlue all had major powerups still. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 5, 2017 16:50:16 GMT
God Tier level 2?
I mean, what you're saying is basically the point of my theory, I think. Except for the immortality boon, which is something very specific, I don't think it's "necessary" for players to achieve God Tier to display the strength and abilities they do. In other words, nothing about their God Tier bodies is really changed, they just realize powers they were capable of all along, but laid dormant. Further examples include Eridan's wand, making use of his latent Hope abilities without even realizing it. Roxy's mysterious association with the Void well before she even entered the game, let alone God Tiered. Even Kankri's visions as the Sufferer on Alternia might apply.
When the concept is introduced, John has reached the top of his echeladder, and can grow no stronger through that artifice, so he has to start climbing the God Tiers to keep getting level ups. But, from a certain purview, God Tiers revolve around gradually laying to rest these abstract limitations, through the handycamp juniorsash badges or whatever, getting mundane "abilities" like being allowed to engage or participate in normal face-to-face conversations onscreen, no longer being limited by a strife specibus, and such. Which also builds up meta awareness for the players, but that's a conversation for another time, and really maybe all this is getting off track.
Not that it means anything significant, just I think it makes sense to interpret God Tiering less as a magical transformation like Super Saiyan, and more of an awakening of something they had the potential for all along. Awakening much like they must first awaken their dreaming self on Prospit or Derse. In that case, the better analogy might be like how Gohan keeps unlocking his hidden potential throughout the story through various triggers. God Tiering just happens to be a foolproof, built-in trigger, with a few extra boons and some metaphysical weight to entice players.
To get back to the original thought that sparked this, I'm pretty sure all God Tiers can fly, regardless of dreamself situation. I struggle to come up with a decent explanation for this, but I think it's something thrown in regardless of what your dreamself is capable of. Like how trolls get bug wings upon God Tiering. It's kind of out of nowhere and has something to do with their interpretation of what qualities they believe should come with the ascension, supposedly. I would speculate that for humans God Tiering represents something like becoming a super hero, and any super hero worth their salt can fly. (Batman gets a pass)
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Post by BookwyrmBOTPH on Mar 7, 2017 18:30:51 GMT
Theory; both the Lord English wins and Psycheout endings are true, and the story will conclusively wrap up in the epilogue.
Now I know this sounds really desperate and we really should be over having high hopes but hear me out here. The main reason why I say this is a possiblity is because of the unfulfilled foreshadowing from Complacency of the Learned;
"The poster depicts the notorious chess match between Calmasis and Zazzerpan. Zazzerpan had a reputation for being unbeatable. He had never lost a match, even to the gods. But his apprentice was able to beat him in the wizard's duel by first becoming checkmated, and through some unprecedented enchantment, continuing to play beyond the death of the king."
Zazzerpan was defeated only because Calmasis was able to keep playing even after the game was over.
Calliope was defeated by Caliborn only because they continued playing even after the game was supposed to be over. Caliborn's enchantment allowed it to continue. It could be argued that this was what Hussie was foreshadowing with the COTL quote from above, but since it didn't actually affect the story all that much I'm more inclined to believe that the chess match between the cherubs is more foreshadowing.
Here's the kicker; though we know that Homestuck is a story, and near the end due to the lack of user input this became somewhat overlooked, Homestuck as a medium for storytelling has always been characterized as what?
A GAME
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Post by staircaseofkneecaps on Mar 10, 2017 19:59:33 GMT
So I'm posting this... 'theory' about how the Retcon Arc only happened because of the Caliborn Expansion Pack, and how Homestuck is a bunch of Video Games and stuff. It's sort of rambly but I'll try a tldr at the end. I got the idea from whoever is above me saying Homestuck is a Game. I think it was Mr Bookworm.
Homestuck is a video game. It comes on two discs, Disc One being about the B1 Kids (Acts 1-3, and Act 4 to Descend are all base-game content.)
When playing with the Caliborn Expansion Pack, you get an Intermission breaking up Acts 3 and 4. This totally random tangent about the felt and Lord English introduces Lord English out of nowhere. Notice the strong green aesthetic the entire time (they're on the green moon after all).
At this point in the comic is Act 5 Act 1, Hivebent. Hivebent is either a prequel or companion to Homestuck, where you play as the twelve trolls through their entire SGRUB campaign. It's not actually on the same disc as Homestuck, hence why they actually have different titles. The comic refers to a longer drawn out narrative form of the story multiple times, among other things like the Rex Duodecim flash getting cut point to it being an entire other game.
When you beat Hivebent Bec Noir interrupts your victory, the final cut scene shows the trolls finding the human kids. The [s:] Homestuck flash right at the beginning of Act 5 Act 2 is actually the true start to homestuck(the game), and the end to Hivebent.
Act 5 Act 2 is right after Descend, with the Scratch Intermission being added because of the Caliborn expansion pack. The Scratch occurs to end the first game.
Couple notes about this. If Hivebent was a prequel game to Homestuck, it'd be cool playing through Homestuck Disc 1 because you'd be like "Whoaaaa it's not a normal session now, the game is broken so we scratched it" so it'd make it seem super cool and new.
Also, when Terezi finds Disc 2 in comic, it's like a meta thing (as homestuck tends to do often) because you would be putting in Disc 2 NOW if you didnt have the Caliborn Expansion. If you have the Caliborn Expansion it tells you to enter Disc 2 later, because now it's a disc instead of a record and so Scratch has to fix it.
Intermission 2 is of course also added by the Caliborn Expansion Pack.
So now youre on Disc 2, the Alpha Kid disc. The game remembers all the choices and shit you made on disc 1 for the B1 session, and now you're playing B2. The intermissions this time are mostly basegame, but the Caliborn Expansion Pack is more integrated with Disc 2 (probably because the Caliborn Expansion was released with Disc 2, or possibly on it. Disc 2 and Disc 2 Deluxe or something.) leading to the calliope/caliborn and alpha kid talks we see.
That reminds me, I think Lil Cal without the Caliborn Expansion would've stayed Calsprite or, if not, at least wouldn't have been cursed. Or if he was his loop limited to creating Lord Jack? That'd be interesting, if the basegame Lord English is Jack Noir, but the DLC adds the Hulk, but idk.
You play through the game as the alpha kids unable to beat the game, and the beta kids in the dream bubbles (maybe trolls too idk). The Trickster Arc only happens if you have the Caliborn Expansion. When the kids all meet up, and the session becomes 8 player, the game switches to Caliborns session. If you dont have the explansion you skip the caliborn stuff. John never gets the Retcon power if you don't have the Caliborn Expansion.
You play through Caliborns version of S***B, choosing to dominate as either caliborn or calliope. You can play the calliope side, but that is the doomed timeline where the mature calliope we see in Homestuck is created.
If you play as Caliborn you win, and your post game content is the ability to create acts controlled by Caliborn (Act 6 Act 6 Acts I think, excluding A666) and mess around with your narrative powers in the Lil Cal machine. You can now switch game modes at any point to play as caliborn during the main story of homestuck. (which is why homestuck the game is in between the caliborn narrative. It's the player, the 'mspa reader', switching back and forth between game modes)
The glitches Caliborn puts in the Expansion Pack that take over Homestuck are all just a part of the Caliborn Expansion Pack.
You return to Homestuck at the point where the kids all meet up and you play through the remainder of Homestuck.
Game Over happens if you have the Caliborn Expansion Pack. John of course has the retcon powers, and this is around the time in the game where you get control of them instead of them being plot-relevant and tutorial.
If you don't have the caliborn expansion pack I'm not sure what would happen, late homestuck isn't too good in my memory. You'd beat the game, playing as all 8 kids, go into the victory door, and play post game with the sburb mechanics but over one whole planet, guiding civilization as you please.
The Retcon Arc happens if you have the Caliborn Expansion Pack, where you have to fix all the fucked up shit. On playthrough to playthrough it'd be cool if it changed who you had to save. In Homestuck the comic we saw the playthrough where vriska was brought back.
Collide happens, Sprites^2 are probably a basegame concept that got discovered very late.
With the Caliborn Expansion Pack you can choose to use Caliborns narrative powers for postgame shenanigans, sburb god simulator as the kids, or you can partake in the super secret post game plot. The post game plot would be the masterpiece, and then a cutscene (like mspa: mental breakdown) and then you'd come out of the House Juju to fight Lord English as the kids. The unseen Epilogue could happen here
You'd also be able to play as Lord English after he emerges from Doc Scratch. Now you'd have like three different Post Game Modes, like destroying dream bubbles and stuff.
OH stuff like retcon arms and oil are only present in versions of the game using Caliborn Expansion Pack.
TLDR: Hivebent is a Prequel where you play through the Trolls Campaign. Homestuck is released on Disc 1 and Disc 2. The 'Scratched Disc 2' contains the Caliborn Expansion Pack, and when loaded with Disc1, changes a lot about the game and the story. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 11, 2017 0:24:40 GMT
Calliope was defeated by Caliborn only because they continued playing even after the game was supposed to be over. Caliborn's enchantment allowed it to continue. It could be argued that this was what Hussie was foreshadowing with the COTL quote from above, but since it didn't actually affect the story all that much I'm more inclined to believe that the chess match between the cherubs is more foreshadowing. This thematic is about the triumph of the villain over a hero by prolonging the game. If this were to apply to the story, that would be terrifying. Anyway, I think that scene fulfills the foreshadowing adequately enough, as does Caliborn's life in general, thanks to a revelation I've had about timelines today. Consider there was a doomed timeline where Calliope predominated over Caliborn, and if you think about how doomed and alpha timelines work, that would mean, from a certain perspective, this was the "original" timeline. The same way Davesprite's timeline was the "original," which he had to go back and alter to make it the alpha. From the perspective of that Calliope, her brother did "extend the game" by overwriting that reality from another, alternate timeline where he won instead. And that's English's whole game, rewriting and controlling the timeline. Besides, that chess scene is no more out of place than any other. Like say, Dave getting emotional over his selfies for no reason. TLDR: Hivebent is a Prequel where you play through the Trolls Campaign. Homestuck is released on Disc 1 and Disc 2. The 'Scratched Disc 2' contains the Caliborn Expansion Pack, and when loaded with Disc1, changes a lot about the game and the story. I don't really agree with this, but I don't really have anything to say about it either. It's kind of neat in that it reminds me of like plugging Sonic & Knuckles into Sonic 3 to create the full game, that also changes some stuff from the first chapter. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 19, 2017 3:34:51 GMT
I was up late last night musing on a certain subject that I think makes for an interesting sort of meta theory. As I often do, I was wondering about the controversial nature of Act 6, and while I was writing out my thoughts I think I came upon a discovery that I'm excited to share.
So, I like to compare Act 6 with Act 5. Both had to follow the most momentous moments of the comic with a radical change of pace, detracting from the main storyline to introduce new characters and settings. In both cases it started to become something different from what it was before and was probably not giving some people what they had come to expect.
Obviously there's a major difference in what both Acts offered in exchange for transforming the tone of the comic, and how that affected the fandom. I think that difference can be summed up by the classpect dichotomy. Act 5's tone is Active. Act 6's is Passive.
Act 5 introduced a wild, engaging alien world that was fun to learn more about, and a cast of characters who were all charming and relatable. Along with them came a faster pace of storytelling that was throwing more and more at us to keep us on the edge of our seats, keep us guessing. It used every trick in the book that was perfect for cultivating the legion of rabid fans for which Homestuck became notorious during Act 5's run.
To say Act 6 had a different approach would be putting it mercifully. Its tone became more somber and introspective. Character development took center stage and most of the plot was driven through exposition. There was less for the characters to do, which led the story to focus instead on the abstract. The story was never going to start taking off and going crazy again like Act 5 did, and that was going to put off the previously mentioned legion, with no attractive whirlwind of plot extravagance to replace the void in enthusiasm it left. I think that's still a lot of who's left here, the people brought in or won over by Act 5 that were spurned by Act 6. Personally, I don't think it has to be that Act 6 messed up, or ruined the comic by going in a different direction. We know that what Homestuck is changes radically over time, from Act 1 to Act 5 to Act 6, and those different parts can appeal to different sensibilities.
I think there's something very noteworthy Act 6 gave to the fandom that still goes largely unappreciated. The world of Homestuck was expanded, but in a subtler way than before. The mythological role system was elaborated upon, the implications of alternate selves was explored, etc. And the fans are always mindful of that kind of thing nowadays, and I think that effect in the fandom went hand in hand with the tone and pacing of Act 6.
For those of us left, it channeled our creative energy in a different direction from the way Act 5 did. Back in the day, everyone was making fantrolls and trollsonas, and cosplaying and the like. These days, some of the defining characteristics of the fandom are self-applied classpects, and intense theory-crafting. It made us thoughtful about things like narrative, thematic elements, story structure and so on.
I think it's a shame the price to pay for this was the fandom diminishing, becoming less popular and our voice getting quiet. Maybe that's not the worst thing in the world though. That was the "Active" version of the fandom, and that had a beginning and an end. We are now the "Passive" version of ourselves. Quieter, subtler, and always thinking of new ideas. The state of the fandom, and how we view Homestuck, is not the same now as it was last year, and I think that's a really significant thing that Andrew intentionally gave us by writing Act 6 the way he did. That's my theory, anyway.
Oh, there's a little more I guess, for the sake of completion. If Act 5 is Active and Act 6 is Passive, what about the other parts? Well, my thought is this. Acts 1-4, Part 1 of Homestuck, is neither. It kind of has the straightforward, explorative style of Act 5, but without the pace to accomplish much in a given period of time, it didn't have the momentum, the worldbuilding to sit on either side of the scale yet. Act 6 Act 6, what I'm tentatively calling Part 4, is both. That's when all the protaganists finally come together and things kick off in the B2 session. The Act 5 action picks back up, but is balanced with the metaphysical talk that defined Act 6 as well. I kind of wish people could have appreciated that more, but I guess that option is always on the table anyway.
Speaking of, it's kind of funny the two big EOAs are kind of flipped from the dichotomies of their Acts. I could describe Cascade as a Passive-oriented flash, as it depicts things happening and events falling into place, testing the readers' knowledge of Homestuck's plot. Collide is the much more obvious Active counterpart, being a straightforward, all-out bare-knuckles brawl between the forces of good and evil for the fate of creation. It is the chance the heroes are given to prove their worth through action.
I've been working on this all day and this is the trimmed down version. I hope this is digestible and makes sense to y'all, and if you have any thoughts on what I've said I'd love to hear it.
>o<
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Post by obsidalicious on Mar 19, 2017 5:28:02 GMT
I think there's something very noteworthy Act 6 gave to the fandom that still goes largely unappreciated. The world of Homestuck was expanded, but in a subtler way than before. The mythological role system was elaborated upon, the implications of alternate selves was explored, etc. And the fans are always mindful of that kind of thing nowadays, and I think that effect in the fandom went hand in hand with the tone and pacing of Act 6. I think one of the major gripes people have with Act 6 is that, like you said it was very introspective and expositional; the perfect form to explore these topics. But it didn't. It made a start, sure. We got exposition on some of the Classpect system, and Dirk, Davesprite and Davepeta kept reminding us off the alt-self topic, but despite the Act being so long, with such a high word count the topics weren't actually explored in a way that satisfied most people. And yeah, I get the argument that the topics shouldn't have been fully explored and 'solved' so that we had something left to do for ourselves, but really Davepeata just name dropping 'Ultimate self' right at the end isn't really sufficient debate fuel is it. I mean, even for the fandom's small size, I feel like the topic was barely ever mentioned after a month or so from that update. And for the Classpect system, if Hussie's intent was to let us theorize for ourselves and settle on our own theories, he didn't do a very good job in my opinion. He should've given us the high level details and overall mechanics to guide in the right direction. But instead, by giving us such specific, detailed exposition on a few classes, that pretty much cemented the idea that there is a 'correct' Classpect model, with all others being objectively wrong. And if you've ever seen how some of the old Classpect threads got, you'd know how that mindset can be very unhelpful to open debate and discussion. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 19, 2017 17:16:11 GMT
And yeah, I get the argument that the topics shouldn't have been fully explored and 'solved' so that we had something left to do for ourselves, but really Davepeata just name dropping 'Ultimate self' right at the end isn't really sufficient debate fuel is it. I mean, even for the fandom's small size, I feel like the topic was barely ever mentioned after a month or so from that update. And for the Classpect system, if Hussie's intent was to let us theorize for ourselves and settle on our own theories, he didn't do a very good job in my opinion. He should've given us the high level details and overall mechanics to guide in the right direction. But instead, by giving us such specific, detailed exposition on a few classes, that pretty much cemented the idea that there is a 'correct' Classpect model, with all others being objectively wrong. And if you've ever seen how some of the old Classpect threads got, you'd know how that mindset can be very unhelpful to open debate and discussion. I've never seen the old Classpect threads, so I guess I have no frame of reference. Personally, I think what you suggest might have been a little boring. That would make it a little obvious we're being goaded into solving the puzzle. I think it's more interesting that we could reverse-engineer the system mechanics from the limited examples we're given in a natural circumstance. Also, having it be "everyone gets to be right" wouldn't reward hard work or encourage a sense of teamwork, sharing ideas and testing each other's theories. The point of a puzzle IS to solve it correctly, after all. |
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Post by ashercrane on Mar 19, 2017 17:27:15 GMT
And yeah, I get the argument that the topics shouldn't have been fully explored and 'solved' so that we had something left to do for ourselves, but really Davepeata just name dropping 'Ultimate self' right at the end isn't really sufficient debate fuel is it. I mean, even for the fandom's small size, I feel like the topic was barely ever mentioned after a month or so from that update. And for the Classpect system, if Hussie's intent was to let us theorize for ourselves and settle on our own theories, he didn't do a very good job in my opinion. He should've given us the high level details and overall mechanics to guide in the right direction. But instead, by giving us such specific, detailed exposition on a few classes, that pretty much cemented the idea that there is a 'correct' Classpect model, with all others being objectively wrong. And if you've ever seen how some of the old Classpect threads got, you'd know how that mindset can be very unhelpful to open debate and discussion. I've never seen the old Classpect threads, so I guess I have no frame of reference. Personally, I think what you suggest might have been a little boring. That would make it a little obvious we're being goaded into solving the puzzle. I think it's more interesting that we could reverse-engineer the system mechanics from the limited examples we're given in a natural circumstance. Also, having it be "everyone gets to be right" wouldn't reward hard work or encourage a sense of teamwork, sharing ideas and testing each other's theories. The point of a puzzle IS to solve it correctly, after all. The problem is, we haven't been given enough proof of any of it to definitely come up with whatever the truth is, and we've been given little reason to believe he'll ever give us the full truth. The reason the Classpect thread has generally dried up isn't because we've all figured out the truth, it's because sooner or later, it turns into a loop of everyone interperating the evidence differently. That would be fine in an instance of there being no right answer, but it's been clearly implied by the story that there is one. It creates a frustrating situation of everyone thinking they have the right answer, since there is one, but since the evidence is vague enough to be interperated many different ways, few people can actually prove it. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 20, 2017 1:44:11 GMT
The problem is, we haven't been given enough proof of any of it to definitely come up with whatever the truth is, and we've been given little reason to believe he'll ever give us the full truth. I don't think that necessarily has to be a problem. What's so great about an easy answer? Who talks about the mystery that's already been solved? Additional overwrought dramatic questions? I'd disagree with the first point, too. Like Obsidalicious says, I think there is just enough solid information and hints toward certain elements over others to point to one definitive answer. Like a treasure map. Only there's no X marking the spot, making it all the more difficult to be sure if we've found what we were looking for. You sound like this situation has hit a wall, that the equilibrium can't change without more canon content. But people can reinterpret things in time and come up with new or modified theories. And people are probably never going to really agree on a thread that exists to generate endless debate and speculation, but popular ideas and elements survive nonetheless. I mean, people don't even agree on whether they like Homestuck around here, so disagreement and spinning wheels aren't necessarily the end of the world. Again, I don't really have the best perspective on this. I don't actually frequent the classpect discussion thread. I just know I don't have what it takes to throw my hat into that ring. I can't really put together good theories on my own, or even work off others. I can really only decide if something I hear makes sense to me or not. And besides, the fandom and its works exists all over the internet, not just here. Like, tumblr. And, reddit?  So, the give and take on theories can sometimes be hard to follow. Like tracking water flowing opposing directions in a river. Or something. |
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Post by cealvan on Mar 22, 2017 20:25:40 GMT
question,
the one thing wich bugged me about the ending, is that while we saw Vriska open the chest with the ultimate weapon in it, we never actually saw LE dye, so is it possible that he will come back in some future comic based around the same multiverse, or is it cannon that he actually died right then and there.
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Post by ashercrane on Mar 22, 2017 21:43:01 GMT
question, the one thing wich bugged me about the ending, is that while we saw Vriska open the chest with the ultimate weapon in it, we never actually saw LE dye, so is it possible that he will come back in some future comic based around the same multiverse, or is it cannon that he actually died right then and there. It's unknown, at the moment. Hussie has said there may be an epilogue, so that may clear it up. |
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Post by Gab on Mar 22, 2017 22:18:22 GMT
It's worth noting even if he did die here, his past self could still appear in future paradox space stories due to time shenanigans.
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Post by gitaxian on Mar 23, 2017 18:25:28 GMT
Theory: The "Ultimate Weapon" is the same as the "Ultimate Reward."
Caliborn's goal was always to "win" SBURB alone. But winning is defined by receiving the Ultimate Reward, and his session was dead. Everything Lord English did was part of his plan to win the game.
In the Masterpiece, he used the door on John, Rose, Dave, and Jade in order to "link" it to their session, and thus their universe.
But that universe didn't exist yet. Instead, the door led to the void where it would eventually be created. So he left it in the furthest ring, where it would remain until the new universe was created.
Through his agents he tricked Vriska into bringing him the door, which he would use to steal the Ultimate Reward for himself.
Lord English, Vriska, and the imprisoned kids will arrive in the new universe at some point in the future, as Caliborn's door leads to a different point in time than the main one. Possibly, this is part of the plot of Hiveswap.
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Post by Gab on Mar 23, 2017 23:24:39 GMT
But that universe didn't exist yet. Instead, the door led to the void where it would eventually be created. So he left it in the furthest ring, where it would remain until the new universe was created. Homestuck doesn't generally think of time this way. I mean for one thing Caliborn's session is initiated from the remains of B2 Earth in Universe C, well after both sessions and universes have been created. But even if they hadn't been, the past and future of one universe is irrelevant to another, or to a session. So when something connects one to the other, it tends to just pick the most convenient point for its purposes. I don't understand how this works... As far as we know, all Caliborn did was trap them in the house. They didn't go anywhere until they were let out a long time after. And what would happen if he'd happened to trap people from multiple sessions? Would it have been "linked" to each of those sessions? But more importantly, from what we've seen, I don't think this would even be necessary for English to appear in that session or universe if he wanted. There are a number of ways to make the transit, and English has lackeys there, like the Condesce. Even so, while I was thinking over I did realize a potentially meaningful connection. I do agree that Caliborn's "weapon" and the "Ultimate Reward" given to more typically successful Sburb players are one and the same. I don't know if this was obvious to other people, but I really didn't realize until just now that obviously the "Ultimate Reward" is the house, sort of. Obviously the real reward is getting to explore the universe they created, and do as they will with it. But for a solo session, which completely subverts all of that and repeatedly denies the session that potential by doing things like exploding Skaia, the ultimate reward would be much smaller. Instead of being a gateway to a realm of unlimited possibility, it's... something else. And that's a whole theory unto itself. Lately, I've been summing it up as a sort of abstract wish-granting artifice, per my theory that it uses its limited power in different ways depending on its owner's classpect, as well as their personality and outlook. But I still wouldn't know why it turned into a big proper house with a door, or why the B2 door turned from red to white. These things suggest a pretty overt connection, but neither seem to have anything more to do with each other, outside a couple coincidences. |
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Post by Gab on Apr 2, 2017 19:59:22 GMT
Boy I find myself bumping myself a lot, I feel kind of bad about that...
But I had this crazy idea that I have to get out just in case. What with some people thinking Hiveswap might come out 4/13, and voxus apparently releasing their dub of Meenahbound that day (or at least the first part), wouldn't it be fucking crazy if that's the "other thing" Andrew was working with some people on?
Though I guess now I actually say that, it really wouldn't make any sense why he would hold Hiveswap back for that reason, and I can imagine crazier projects we know nothing about he would be responsible for. I just think it would be amazing if he voiced himself in those videos.
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Post by plainWonder on May 13, 2017 9:27:05 GMT
IDE/Theory: All Dad's hats are made of (fake) rabbit hair, which apparently is a traditional felt used for fedoras and trilbies!
Everytime he buys a new hat, it gets delivered to the house in a branded box, and he and John go through the whole Con Air bunny/box routine.
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Post by plainWonder on Jun 17, 2017 14:32:25 GMT
IDE/Theory: Latula's attitude of 'r4d1c4l' rebellion was echoed by Redglare dressing in red, a color symbolical (although by her time, all but forgotten), standing for the followers of the Sufferer.
At the same time, her slumbering Knight of Mind powers are what drove her to law enforcement. She knew/wanted to learn what motivates the injust criminals to commit their crimes, and like some twisted fairytale brought to live, she hunted them, a knight riding a dragon.
Somewhat related, she learned that shoulder-length or longer hair isn't the best cut when you're experiencing such speeds in open air, hence the haircut.
And perhaps, that too could be seen as an act of rebellion? After all, the leading figure of troll society seems to make a point in never ever cutting her hair, perhaps as an extension (heheh) of her vanity.
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Post by mementovivere on Jun 22, 2017 3:27:40 GMT
IDE: The "epilogue" to Homestuck is actually going to be a sequel of sorts. Instead of focusing on teen drama and shenanigans, it will focus more on disillusioned adults dealing with PTSD, the implications of godhood, and general Sburb aftermath. Like Homestuck, their ages will depend upon when it comes out in real time... so if it were to be released in, say, 2020, John and friends would be 24.
This is part of why there ARE so many plot holes in Homestuck--to leave some material for the sequel to explore retroactively. This is also why Caliborn's masterpiece presents the characters as essentially being featureless blobs, to give wiggle room for how old they actually are in it. The timey-wimey nature of Sburb allows for pretty much any degree of time skip necessary. I mean hell, maybe the reason that the trolls don't appear in the Masterpiece is because they've already died of old age.
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Post by obsidalicious on Jun 22, 2017 6:09:12 GMT
IDE: The Condesce's seeming lack of immortality is actually just because Lord English ending her employment, like he did with the Handmaid.
Looking at Doc Scratch exposition on the curse, it sounds like English has arbitrary control over it and can just switch it off whenever. As for the 'why' he did this is simple: Deliberately or not, the Condesce's survival would only complicate, if not threaten Lord English. Even if she herself doesn't present a physical threat to English, she can still defeat the kids if left immortal, which obviously denies Caliborn the events of the Masterpiece; a crucial step in his rise to power. Plus, say what you will about her, )(IC knows how to operate an empire. If she took over Earth instead of the crew, I'd say that there's good chance that Earth would still be inhabited by the time of Caliborn's birth, assuming that )(IC's space fleets haven't already encountered and killed one of his Cherub ancestors in (preemptive) self defense.
So English just SNOPPED his fingers and took her immortality away at some point, likely without )(IC even noticing, possibly even in the middle of the fight.
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Post by plainWonder on Jul 11, 2017 21:16:07 GMT
We now know how the game ended for the kids: the Genesis Frog got shot out of the Forge into Skaia, after Echidna released control over it.
So did Jack get intel through his agents that he should go after the Denizen to nip this business in the bud? And did he fail?? Maybe the “compelling duel” that Scratch referred to, which unmotivated Jack, wasn’t actually against Grimdark Rose!
The mother of all Denizens, wielding power from the same well of unlimited potential as Skaia, vs. the most unhinged Green Sun-powered individual known to Paradox Space?
This might have been a strife for the ages!
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Post by Blaperile on Jul 22, 2017 20:21:09 GMT
IDE/Theory: Grandpa watched the recordings of Jade's dreams.
Jade told Karkat and Kanaya about how Grandpa built the dreambot for her, with one of its purposes being to record her dreams, and that she suspected he always knew her dreams would be special.
It only just occurred to me: seeing as he built the dream recording function into the Dreambot, isn't it likely that he also WATCHED those recordings, during the time he was still alive?
Clearly Grandpa already had knowledge about Sburb beforehand, but perhaps he learned even more about it thanks to Jade's dreams! He could have seen Jade on Prospit, and even seen the visions in the oracle clouds! And who knows the abundance of things he could have learned from THAT.
Maybe he even passed on some of that knowledge to Mom at Skaianet as Sburb was being made!
Heck, maybe Skaia showed some visions to young Jade, knowing she was too young to actually comprehend any of it, with the actual intention of GRANDPA seeing those visions and doing something with that knowledge!
I wonder if Grandpa had already travelled to the Medium by the time he built Jade's Dreambot. It would explain why Jade believes he always thought her dreams would be special (seeing as he'd already have found Dream Jade's body) on one hand, but on the other hand it would also make sense if the Oracle cloud visions gave Grandpa some pointers leading him into discovering for example the Transportalizers within the Frog Temple allowing him to enter the session!
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Post by plainWonder on Jul 22, 2017 21:39:24 GMT
Also, Dream Jade talked to the White Queen a few times, imagine Grampa following those conversations.
Heck, depending on where she went when she was still that young, he could’ve seen Dream John!
If Grandpa hadn’t found Dream Jade’s body before he built the Dreambot, then maybe, somehow, he found inscriptions referring to it in the Frog Temple?
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Post by Gab on Jul 23, 2017 20:37:21 GMT
I guess I have a bit of a theory. No idea what people are gonna think of it, but here goes. (Please excuse the shittiness of my banner.)To start this off, I don't think English is motivated by any desire to eradicate his sister, as is assumed by his enemies. He is perfectly satisfied with her death state, no need to go to the trouble again. One could even make the argument that, in his own twisted way, he starts to miss her company. He brings her up out of nowhere, as if he can't keep her out of his mind. This would most likely be the feeling of loneliness Aranea describes in cherubs having its effect on Caliborn. Now one could certainly argue Caliborn might be motivated to destroy her soul, perhaps in the hope it would make these scandalous feelings go away. But I think his solution, and everything he has to say about his sister, is summed up in Doc Scratch. Doc Scratch was born to serve as Lord English's other half, replacing the role Calliope served when the two shared one body. From Caliborn's warped perspective, the two share many similarities. They're both wordy, intelligent, and ( as Caliborn saw her) quite smug. He scrapbooks with a ~ATH book like she did, and carries her weapon. In addition to being a pastiche of his sister, Scratch is also a symbol of his other weakness, the cue ball. Both are heralded to be the key to his defeat, after all. He does double duty then by killing Scratch, hatching out of his body and growing more powerful (by assimilating Scratch's first guardian powers), "predominating" over him and asserting his dominance over both his vulnerabilities once again. Yet there are a few key differences. For one thing, Scratch is completely and utterly subservient to Caliborn, doing everything he wills and pulling the strings of reality to bring him and his timeloops to fruition. This, of course, is exactly as Caliborn would have it. For another thing though, and where the whole idea reaches its limit, is that the finer points of Scratch's personality really don't line up with Calliope's at all. This is probably because he derives his personality from the "recessive traits" of Caliborn's psyche, gained largely from fusing souls as seen in Masterpiece. In fact, since the original predomination over Calliope was an unnatural one, I doubt Caliborn, and thus Scratch, actually have anything of Calliope in them at all. Which might be why, rather than having the normal feelings that led to pursuing a relationship, Caliborn specifically misses Calliope, and attempts to replace her. Though that finally brings us back to what I was trying to get to in the first place! So digressing from all the stuff about Doc Scratch, let's assume English has no particular interest in killing the ghost of his sister. Either of them, in fact (assuming he knows of the existence of alt-Calliope at all). Why go through with the destruction for so long then? This is where things get interesting. Remember that the trolls' plan revolves around using English's destruction to lead them to their destination. This sounds eerily like the destructive brand of courtship his father employed when pursuing his mate. Which puts the destination at the end of the trail in a whole other light. It's the treasure, yes. Sealed within the memory of where Caliborn achieved his invincibility, the place where Lord English was "born." And, just in case that weren't enough, right when English and Vriska finally meet face-to-face, an enormous black hole (or something similar to it) erupts from the site of the green sun, the place this physical incarnation of English was "born!"Which brings us to why. Why is he making what comes off disturbingly like a romantic overture? Why VRISKA? The short answer is, I think he takes an interest in those who would oppose him. But why does Vriska get this treatment? What about Meenah for instance? I do believe he acknowledges her part in the rebellion. I would say, to Meenah, opposing Lord English is primarily a response to his oppression of the Condesce, her alternate self. She aims to prove her superiority over him on a personal level, proving she is in control of her own destiny, and that she can be a perfectly terrible villain on her own merit. And, as is typically the case with English, his treatment of Condesce is paradoxically a response to that as well. For her part in standing up to him, he makes a slave of her adult self, keeping her tightly under his thumb claw. He also faces Meenah 1-on-1 at the end. And if he hadn't been interrupted, that fight would've ended with him proving his point, holding her helplessly in his hand. (On a quick tangent, it's sort of interesting to me that Tavros gets far and away the worst beating of anyone English fights.) Vriska gets a wholly different treatment though. It's disturbing to consider the lengths English has gone to. It's heavily implied by this page That the Cairo Overcoat was alchemized or at least modeled after the coat Vriska wears when she roleplays as Marquise. Relevant to that, this is also the only incarnation we know of where he replaces his mechanical leg with a pegleg, conjuring the image of a pirate. A rival pirate even? If we follow that logic, then Eridan, in addition to being a member of a legacy of heroes destined to oppose English (Beginning with Cronus and ending with Jake, or vice versa) also serves as a romantic rival to English. It would be pleasing to English narrative then that Eridan's legacy is to be seen as pathetic not just by Vriska but by everyone, and to be a pawn in servitude of Angels. Not that I'm 100% certain he can influence events as minute as that. Just that it's sort of an odd coincidence, and things like that do have a way of breaking in Caliborn's favor anyway, due to the utter command he has over the forces of inevitability and all. Like with the green sun/black hole. I don't know whether he expected that to happen or had any idea it would, but the fact it did, right at the exact moment he meets the kismesis he's been working so hard setting the mood for suits his desires perfectly, even as it also serves to render him vulnerable. But I digress again. Why Vriska? The thing is, the two are kind of worryingly similar to each other. They're both power gamers. They both independently believe in making themselves retroactively responsible for events. It's also noteworthy that, among all of Doc Scratch's many proteges, Vriska is the only one we know of ever to get the edge on him. So do I REALLY think Caliborn is blackrom flirting with Vriska? I'm not sure. He certainly didn't seem to think much of her before becoming Lord English, at any rate. Still, going through those motions, as a show of respect if nothing else, strikes me as a more compelling reason for him to go through with the treasure hunt than the Calliope story. And, since I pretty much have to assume English more or less knowingly participated in his own defeat, I think this adds depth to explore what that would mean. Possibly knowing doing certain events will lead to his defeat, or even coming to realize that he can't escape this fate, he not only plays the part faithfully, he also puts on an elaborate performance with Vriska, molding himself and her both, acknowledging her as his enemy, making their final climactic confrontation as satisfying for them both as possible. Because in the end she makes the same choice he does, throwing everything else away, abandoning her friends to play the hero, possibly losing her life just so she could get credit for beating Lord English. Oh and for the record I doubt she reciprocates these feelings if he does have them. I suspect it hasn't occurred to her at all. She doesn't think anything of him other than a vehicle to satisfy her ego. She thinks she's been playing him so bad. She probably hasn't noticed all the trouble he's gone through. But it does make me wonder what the two would have been like if they ever interacted when Caliborn was a kid, or had sparred as equals. Bet sparks woulda been flying. |
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So, the give and take on theories can sometimes be hard to follow. Like tracking water flowing opposing directions in a river. Or something.
