imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
Meet the Meme Team
Posts: 633
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by imglasses on Apr 8, 2016 20:05:03 GMT
IDE: Problem Sleuth and Homestuck were both Bard Quest intermissions. We won't find out how they're relevant until much later. Bard Quest will return immediately after EoA7.
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 8, 2016 22:51:09 GMT
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Post by ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) on Apr 8, 2016 23:16:19 GMT
theory; becquerel will get proto typed and jack noir gets first guardan powers and thats y the trolls are mad. ??
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Post by thezcmme on Apr 8, 2016 23:48:56 GMT
theory; becquerel will get proto typed and jack noir gets first guardan powers and thats y the trolls are mad. ?? 0_0 Um.. Are you a bit behind on the comic? It seems your off by a few acts... |
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sporkaganza
You are the Star
Posts: 221
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Post by sporkaganza on Apr 8, 2016 23:49:55 GMT
look at their username... u just got Memed on son
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imglasses
Your shit is wrecked
Meet the Meme Team
Posts: 633
Pronouns: they/them/theirs
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Post by imglasses on Apr 8, 2016 23:53:41 GMT
theory; becquerel will get proto typed and jack noir gets first guardan powers and thats y the trolls are mad. ?? Why would Bec get prototyped? No offense, but this theory is kind of far-fetched  |
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Post by thezcmme on Apr 9, 2016 0:35:44 GMT
look at their username... u just got Memed on son To be honest I noticed the Lenny face and assumed they were trolling. Just making SURE. |
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Post by BlackholeOU on Apr 9, 2016 0:38:09 GMT
I've always had a theory that Calliope was going to somehow turn out to be the bad guy along, just not in the way we thought she would be! I assumed that maybe she'd somehow turn out to have some strange mind control power that would make it possible for things to go perfectly and the way she wants it to (Like a fanfiction writer), but this, this actually makes sense unlike my idea. As a note if there is another flash and it centers around Calliope turning in to Caliborn then I'm calling it, this song gets used. Please let the laughter take place at the exact moment when the kids are sucked into the Juju. EDIT: That actually seems to work perfectly. The part right after that sounds like perfect fight music for an all-out brawl between Caliborn and the alphas. Then there's a lull with wind and quieter, more forlorn music for when it seems like Caliborn's won the fight. The music slowly starts to pick back up again as Jake picks himself back up. Some more rambunctious music as he fights with Caliborn, and Dirk readies his soul-sucking spell. Then there are literally meowing noises and HORSE NEIGHS for when Arquiusprite comes in, followed by a final bout of laughter as Caliborn, Arquiusprite, and half of Gamzee get sucked into Lil Cal. Not to mention, the laugh used in this song is the Flowey laugh, which is most known for when he tricks you or shows up unexpectedly after the game lulls you into a false sense of security. In the Peaceful ending, all of your friends show up as happy music plays, and it seems like everything is fine. But then, Flowey comes out of nowhere and literally SUCKS ALL OF THEIR SOULS into himself (represented by Hearts), allowing him to attain his true form, which shoots rainbow energy beams at you. Hahaha, so I come here to put forward this theory and you guys are already talking about a variation of it. Always two steps ahead, I see. Still, I am really excited about this idea. It would resolve all of the seeming plot holes I've been worried about, like the Erisolsprite difference, i.e. why we seem to be following the wrong Caliborn. It's also about the only way to do it that would be easily explicable and visually conveyed in a flash, and to tie up all of those issues at once. And it fits foreshadowing. It's perfect, it's everything I ever wanted. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 1:08:53 GMT
theory; becquerel will get proto typed and jack noir gets first guardan powers and thats y the trolls are mad. ?? Why would Bec get prototyped? No offense, but this theory is kind of far-fetched yeah, clearly it'll be Jade's entire island that gets prototyped |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 9, 2016 1:27:45 GMT
Yeah, the way things are going...Collide didn't tie up any loose ends, and so far that pattern is continuing with only so many pages left until Act 7. Either Act 7 is a huge Cascade-style flash that ties up everything or...something funny's going on.
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 9, 2016 1:36:20 GMT
It's not just loose ends, this isn't just a checklist of plot points that need to be adressed. It's a story and it is lacking a true climax. The story needs to set it up and then give a pay-off. How that can be done in 2 pages is beyond me.
There is meta shit involved I can feel it.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 9, 2016 3:26:45 GMT
It's not just loose ends, this isn't just a checklist of plot points that need to be adressed. It's a story and it is lacking a true climax. The story needs to set it up and then give a pay-off. How that can be done in 2 pages is beyond me. There is meta shit involved I can feel it. I didn't want to say it because I didn't want anybody to jump on me for bad mouthing Hussie's story telling skills or anything, but yeah, you're right. It's just tying up plot points is something Hussie does, so I thought it was a safe thing to point out. On that note, someone pointed out to me that there's an overarching theme in Homestuck that you don't get anything without a hardship or sacrifice, but that seems to be what's happening. Rose had to watch Roxy die and Jade had to go without Davesprite and John on her journey but...other than that, haven't things gone pretty smoothly since John and Terezi used the retcon? The final battles, as big and dramatic as they were, worked out pretty damn well all considered, didn't they? As a note if there is another flash and it centers around Calliope turning in to Caliborn then I'm calling it, this song gets used. Ah following that link got me to listen to Cherubim again. I'd forgotten how much Reverie sounds like circus music at the end. Which figures. |
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
sushi guro
Posts: 174
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 9, 2016 5:09:45 GMT
On that note, someone pointed out to me that there's an overarching theme in Homestuck that you don't get anything without a hardship or sacrifice, but that seems to be what's happening. Rose had to watch Roxy die and Jade had to go without Davesprite and John on her journey but...other than that, haven't things gone pretty smoothly since John and Terezi used the retcon? The final battles, as big and dramatic as they were, worked out pretty damn well all considered, didn't they? Not only that, but it's Typheus's voice that you can hear at the end of Collide... |
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Post by Blaperile on Apr 9, 2016 8:07:18 GMT
Rose had to watch Roxy die and Jade had to go without Davesprite and John on her journey but...other than that, haven't things gone pretty smoothly since John and Terezi used the retcon? The final battles, as big and dramatic as they were, worked out pretty damn well all considered, didn't they? Things needed to start going well at some point. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 9, 2016 8:55:16 GMT
Rose had to watch Roxy die and Jade had to go without Davesprite and John on her journey but...other than that, haven't things gone pretty smoothly since John and Terezi used the retcon? The final battles, as big and dramatic as they were, worked out pretty damn well all considered, didn't they? Things needed to start going well at some point. A big theme in this comic is that cutting corners or trying to act adult before you're ready (in other words, sequence jumping) cheats you out of much needed learning and development. That's what happened to Terezi and Vriska and most of the trolls. That's what causes the Strilondes to misunderstand their parents. That's what causes most of Dirk's and Jake's problems. It's what's stunted Caliborn. TheCrystalShip had this big post about how the House Juju and the Sucker are basically the same, and Hussie's big speech about the Sucker can be applied to John's retcon powers. So it doesn't make thematic sense and would make for an unsatisfying conclusion besides for things to be going so well after John and Terezi made their retcons, and I feel like the comic itself is trying to tell us this by leaving so many things unaddressed as we go into the final stretch. Like Strawhat Luffy says, there needs to be a build up and then a payoff in the form of a climax. Given how well things are going, that can't happen, because there's no tension, so there can't be a release of that tension when everything does start going right. The reason Cascade was so awesome was because so many things were going badly for our protagonists before the flash started. Jade was killed before her plot involving the yellow yard could be completed, Dave and Rose were on their way to blow themselves up to take out the Green Sun, John hadn't started the scratch yet and the trolls were trapped in a session with Jack who was chomping at the bit to finish them off. So when we see God Tier Jade throwing planets around and a God Tier Dave and Rose rising triumphantly out of the Green Sun, it's that much more awesome because things were seemingly so hopeless before. Even Collide followed that rule to a point: it had a significant amount of art that depicted Dirk, Dave, Terezi, Roxy, John, Rose and Kanaya getting their asses kicked before they managed to turn the tide and win their battles. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 9:32:32 GMT
It seems like people forgot that Caliborn's Masterpiece is still a thing.
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 9, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
It seems like people forgot that Caliborn's Masterpiece is still a thing. I think it's more that people are afraid that we're in for a rehash of the masterpiece, and then from there they don't see how things end in a satisfactory way with the amount of pages that are left. And that's if the masterpiece was one hundred percent accurate. |
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
sushi guro
Posts: 174
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 9, 2016 10:15:47 GMT
A big theme in this comic is that cutting corners or trying to act adult before you're ready (in other words, sequence jumping) cheats you out of much needed learning and development. That's what happened to Terezi and Vriska and most of the trolls. That's what causes the Strilondes to misunderstand their parents. That's what causes most of Dirk's and Jake's problems. It's what's stunted Caliborn. TheCrystalShip had this big post about how the House Juju and the Sucker are basically the same, and Hussie's big speech about the Sucker can be applied to John's retcon powers. So it doesn't make thematic sense and would make for an unsatisfying conclusion besides for things to be going so well after John and Terezi made their retcons, and I feel like the comic itself is trying to tell us this by leaving so many things unaddressed as we go into the final stretch. Like Strawhat Luffy says, there needs to be a build up and then a payoff in the form of a climax. Given how well things are going, that can't happen, because there's no tension, so there can't be a release of that tension when everything does start going right. You're right: This ending would be directly contradictory to the moral that Hussie himself espoused within the comic. Not only that, but Collide represented the success of Vriska's plan almost to the letter. Yeah there were a few surprises, but she wasn't truly proven wrong. Jake succeeded, but he still stuck to the "unimportant" battle assigned to him. Jane didn't do very much fighting, and mostly stuck to just healing. Gcatavrosprite didn't do anything at all. Rose ignored her quest. Slick was simply treated as another bad guy ripe for the killing. All of the other villains were simply defeated or killed as well, despite the potential for each of them to be turned to the heroes' side. This is something I noticed on rewatch, and it goes back not only to Vriska's advice regarding all of the baddies, but her advice to Rose regarding Cetus, and how all of the trolls dealt with their Denizens. This is part of why they FAILED the first time, remember? And they were denied their reward FOR that very reason. Which brings me to Karkat. As laid out in Vriska's plan, Karkat was relegated to a minor scuffle, and only tapped into his aspect physically ("binding" Clover), rather than by accepting his role as the leader. He is still convinced that he needs to be a warrior in the classic sense, so it wasn't his leadership or his plan that led the party to victory, it was Vriska's. And Vriska has already been demonstrated by the narrative to be a Trojan horse, a false messiah. She has failed to learn the same lessons as Griska, and she has failed to actually grow as a person, so we can only assume that her leadership will have led the party astray. In this sense, Collide and the current events seem to be very similar to Vriskagram in style, tone, and intended message. There is something wrong here. Something's not quite right. This is too "good" to be true. One thing I think would be cool is if we got (S) Collude, where all of the heroes choose to collude with the villains, and in Rose's case, commune with her Denizen. It would go along perfectly with Karkat's misunderstanding of his aspect and his role, for us to go from a classic STRIFE! Flash befitting a warrior, to a more amicable Flash befitting a true Hero of Blood. But now I'm just getting my hopes up again, and proposing a possibility that is far too unrealistic for my own good. |
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 9, 2016 12:44:20 GMT
There is a theory from BKEW that Act 7 is the final page of Homestuck because at that point they will open a breach to leave paradox Space, and thus not being stuck in their "home" anymore. So the comic will then be called something other than Homestuck (like Homefree). Rose had to watch Roxy die and Jade had to go without Davesprite and John on her journey but...other than that, haven't things gone pretty smoothly since John and Terezi used the retcon? The final battles, as big and dramatic as they were, worked out pretty damn well all considered, didn't they? Things needed to start going well at some point. They have been consistently getting well since A6A6I4. The kids fixed all the shit that happened in Game Over then proceeded to take control over the situation. Everything has been under control, even if Vriska's plan didn't go exactly like predicted (but the outline of it worked pretty well). That is not how you end a story. The protagonists need a villain who actually makes them hopeless, a conflict that doesn't seen that it can be solved, a final battle whose odds of winning are impossible. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 13:39:47 GMT
Things needed to start going well at some point. They have been consistently getting well since A6A6I4. The kids fixed all the shit that happened in Game Over then proceeded to take control over the situation. Everything has been under control, even if Vriska's plan didn't go exactly like predicted (but the outline of it worked pretty well). That is not how you end a story. The protagonists need a villain who actually makes them hopeless, a conflict that doesn't seen that it can be solved, a final battle whose odds of winning are impossible. Who is Lord English? (s)Collide is not the climax of the story. Caliborn's Masterpiece that has yet to transpire and we already know what happens to Kids when it does. The climax of Homestuck is going to be the final battle between Kids and Lord English; a being that haunted their lives and ultimately had a hand in created them in the same way he was created by the Kids. I know you're worried about the low page count but bare in mind we all have no idea what Act 7 is going to be like and what exactly constitutes a 'page.' |
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 9, 2016 13:52:44 GMT
Some guy who is killing ghosts nobody cares about in the Furthest Ring, who has been responsible for a bunch of timeloops in the past that mostly involved creating himself, and who doesn't seem to be presenting any direct threat to the protagonists right now. The only living person who cares about him right now is Vriska, because of her hero complex. Everyone else is ready to create an universe and move on. So I'd hardly call him a proper villain. As for the masterpiece, for it to happen the comic needs to give the kids a reason to even want to go to Caliborn's session. That hasn't been done either. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 13:54:26 GMT
Some guy who is killing ghosts nobody cares about in the Furthest Ring, who has been responsible for a bunch of timeloops in the past that mostly involved creating himself, and who doesn't seem to be presenting any direct threat to the protagonists right now. The only living person who cares about him right now is Vriska, because of her hero complex. Everyone else is ready to create an universe and move on. So I'd hardly call him a proper villain. Cool. Don't read my post and continue to be sad. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 9, 2016 13:55:45 GMT
There is a theory from BKEW that Act 7 is the final page of Homestuck because at that point they will open a breach to leave paradox Space, and thus not being stuck in their "home" anymore. So the comic will then be called something other than Homestuck (like Homefree). Pfft, I said that! Strange minds think alike I guess. But yeah, if something meta happens and the comic doesn't end but is no longer "Homestuck" after Act 7, then Hussie would still have been telling the truth about Homestuck ending on 4/13 with the seventh act. Who is Lord English? (s)Collide is not the climax of the story. Caliborn's Masterpiece that has yet to transpire and we already know what happens to Kids when it does. The climax of Homestuck is going to be the final battle between Kids and Lord English; a being that haunted their lives and ultimately had a hand in created them in the same way he was created by the Kids. I know you're worried about the low page count but bare in mind we all have no idea what Act 7 is going to be like and what exactly constitutes a 'page.' I can't be the only one who doesn't give a shit about Lord English, can I? For me, them defeating him would not make for an incredibly satisfying conclusion itself and I can't imagine it being a high point of the comic. The indirect, impersonal pain he's caused our kids has always seemed harder to get mad about than the direct, personal pain things like Bec Noir, the Condesce and Scratch have caused. Dave even lampshaded this. And it always felt more like the real villain was Paradox Space, because it allowed a thing like Lord English to come into being. Without the 'no paradox ' rule of the realm, English wouldn't have been able to do anywhere near as much damage. Oh my God. What if something breaks their door too? Or it just doesn't open or something? That'd give another reason for John zapping everyone in to deal with Lord English, and it'd be an incredible example of using the Juju to cheat. |
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Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 9, 2016 13:56:56 GMT
I'm not sad, I'm just speculating. I trust Hussie will be able to surprise me. But it seems he is defying math, and I trust math more than I trust Hussie. So I'm trying to figure out how the heck he will pull this off.
My point is: Hussie needs to provide a rational reason for the kids to want to fight LE. That is lacking. A final battle will not make sense if that reason is not provided.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 14:03:56 GMT
As for the masterpiece, for it to happen the comic needs to give the kids a reason to even want to go to Caliborn's session. That hasn't been done either. JOHN: once we all decide we're ready to fight him, i can just zap us all right to him. JOHN: we could take him by surprise again. JOHN: i really doubt he'd be able to handle us if we all clobbered him at once! Also previous page |
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