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Post by therationaldove on Apr 15, 2016 11:25:37 GMT
I thought that was more of reference to Jigsaw and his first line in the comic rather than anything else.
I have a feeling that, in some ways, the fandom pressured Hussie to make this ending come faster than it maybe should have. He has talked about our eagerness being this large distraction for him and I think he figured that if he held out any longer on the end of the comic, he would completely loose his readership. It was either make a halfway-decent conclusion that would keep the fandom talking despite it's decentness or pull out the end of the comic more so that there was a better payoff at the cost of releasing the end to an empty readership. So, it was a lesser of two evils thing. People here have been complaining how long he was taking to finish, especially comsidering how salty people are about Hiveswap and its mired development period, despite the fact that a 3-4 dev period for a video game isn't that unusual.
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 15, 2016 11:27:56 GMT
I think the only other things in Homestuck that has been this polarizing were Vriska and the Retcon. And I hated both those things, but I made peace with them. And Davekat. It sounds silly but seriously there's been LOTS of debates about that ship, more than any other pairing as far as I know. |
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 15, 2016 11:33:57 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse:
Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you?
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Post by Shadow of the Lotus on Apr 15, 2016 11:56:38 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? I think Homestuck has been an awesome media experience to witness and that where Andrew excels is in pushing boundaries and creating new forms of entertainment. You can't deny how smartly and creatively Homestuck was put together. That said, in the end, I only really ended up enjoying Acts 1 - 4. The story I was hoping for was one where the friendship of the 4 kids was the central element and theme. But it never really built up to that; it just looked like it was heading in that direction early in the story. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 15, 2016 12:12:21 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Like it was incomplete. I'm serious, even if a significant amount of new pages never comes, this just feels not done to me. Not just because loose threads didn't get tied up, but because the last flash itself felt more like a collection of multiple set ups for things that never came. Think about it: we see Vriska unleash the Juju but we don't see what it does, we see the Frog being born and a vision of the kids on earth but we don't see them enter the Universe, and we see Caliborn destroy his clock but we don't see him with pool ball eyes. It's weird. |
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 15, 2016 12:22:51 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? I think Homestuck has been an awesome media experience to witness and that where Andrew excels is in pushing boundaries and creating new forms of entertainment. You can't deny how smartly and creatively Homestuck was put together. That said, in the end, I only really ended up enjoying Acts 1 - 4. The story I was hoping for was one where the friendship of the 4 kids was the central element and theme. But it never really built up to that; it just looked like it was heading in that direction early in the story. Personally, I'm afraid I'll have to jump on the bandwagon and say that Act 5 Act 2 is the best part of Homestuck. It's just the most enjoyable and thoroughly plot-focused act, with little relationship drama and the like. |
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Post by curiousfellow on Apr 15, 2016 13:10:48 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? I liked thousands of pages worth of homestuck. I'll still consider myself a big fan even if I don't like the last bit. Going forward, I might be slightly afraid that homestuck related things continue the trend after the ending, though. |
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Post by comicalArchitect on Apr 15, 2016 13:26:20 GMT
Homestuck changed my life, introduced me to new friends, and helped me realize who I really was. (I realized I was a girl after having a dream where I was Calliope.) I will never stop being thankful to Hussie, and I will never stop loving Homestuck.
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Post by ConstantTroublemaker on Apr 15, 2016 13:32:06 GMT
The Retcon was confined to the session. Definitely NOT. It also affected both the Troll's life in their universe and their session. Its effects were much more far-reaching than a timeloop or even a scratch. Although it was still already planned by Paradox Space, and was in no way able to escape predestination. |
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Post by damson on Apr 15, 2016 14:09:34 GMT
Oh my god. The reason we don't see the final battle between LE and the kids is that THERE IS NO BATTLE BETWEEN LE AND THE KIDS. Because his powers are lost as soon as the green sun is destroyed (see 4:24, his green flames dissipate and his eyes settle on the 8balls), he is now as vulnerable as pre-clock-smashing Caliborn. Which means that LE is "killed" by the house juju itself. It slams into the ground, causing cracks to form in the floor, which gives him no more ground to stand on. And presumably, he's then sucked into the black hole. The kids never come out. They can't--there's no door, not until after.
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Post by mementovivere on Apr 15, 2016 14:23:57 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? Even if we never get the satisfying conclusion that we want (and I still think there's evidence that we will), overall, I still think Homestuck is a very good story. It does a bunch of genuinely innovative things with the medium, it's full of fantastic conversations and emotional moments, it has twists and turns that take your breath away, and it honestly ties up MOST of its plot points throughout itself if you view it as a whole... just not some of the ones dangling at the end. Obviously a story is better if it has a satisfying ending, but I don't think it's automatically garbage if it doesn't--there are many stories I love that don't even HAVE endings. The reason we've all recommended Homestuck to people in the past is because we were enjoying it, and ultimately I think that's what matters. Personally I can't wait to reread Homestuck... when I have some more free time, anyway. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 14:39:19 GMT
Well, i had some time to think of it... Even if i don't outright HATE ending anymore, i still don't like it. No amount of epilogue pages will fix it. It just feels, as alleywaycreeper said, like a buildup for true finale that was never produced - and as i sad to acknowlege it, never will be. The worst part is that Act 7 actually HAD the potential to be an emotional and satisfying finale that will let all fuckups of Act 6 be forgiven - this moment will give me chills for a long time, there's so much in it - but it just, like, cut off? There's so many loose ends left, i even went through trouble of listing them! What ending DID give answer to:-Caliborn's immortality and clockwork-seizure-field powers. As i got it, he: 1) Removed and broke the pendulum-arm of his clock so that it's rendered unable to give Heroic/Just verdict; 2) Broke clock completely with the crowbar and consumed it's power because it's a thing chreubs can do, and therefore clockwork powers keeps him constantly alive and also enable to destroy shit with it? It also gives a nice answer to why cueball is the only thing that can harm him: it's essentialy the pendulum, and given that Cal is, like, acts as his own clock now (being pumped with clockwork power and all), landing a hit with cueball will "put the mechanism back together" in a way, letting Caliborn/LE to get his deserved Just permadeath. Holy hell, that's neat, and i actually like it more then than my "Cueball is Calliope" theory. If only entirety of the ending was like it. But... What there's left without a payoff/explanation, and 99,9% it'll never get one:-How, when and for which reason the Masterpiece happens? -How Caliborn got the ring? -How Jade got the Final Frog? Given it's colors, it explictly has something to do with beta kids/LE, but what? -Literally everything about alt!Callie. What led to her existence? What she planned to accomplish by destroying the Green Sun? And HOW she did that? Is creation of black holes a power of god tiered/high level Space players, or? -Really, what was the point of that? The thing basically held entirety of PS and countless universes stable, and now it's all fucked up. -Why Red Door, leading to universe C, at the last moment was replaced by the White Door, that leads to (  ??)? -What did the Treasure do? -Fates of fuckton of characters, from sprites and to Lord English himself, are left ambiguous. -Characters in general are incoherent mess. For example, what’s up with Karkat’s supposed importance and mention of his "special” Denizen? Without payoff it all seems like it’s all there just to hummilate him even more. Ironically, the only one to get satisfying arc was Caliborn. In the end, he's probably my favorite main character, so i can't be bitter about that, at least. -Gamzee timeline? -Final bits about The Big Man: What is the exact degree of Lil Hal/Gamzee/Equius influence? Why FR server is a thing and how it was set up? How exactly process of entering the universe takes place? Is Doc Scratch example repeats itself many times, or each case is different? How Cuestaff, Overcoat and Felt were created and/or transferred to the Alternia? Why it was THIS iteration of LE who decided to wreck shit in FR up, and what is up with the others? -I honestly don't think even Hussie can keep track of all timey-wimey shit going on now. -Everything about Union Jack. Was he possessed but still remained "himself", or is he another one of LE's manifestations? How he even EXISTS post-retcon? Why for the hell of it would his cut off head turn into singularity? -Entire retcon arc is shit, and Davepeta's speech about "The Ultimate Self" seems like a lame way to justify it. -The fuck Terezi: Remem8er was even for? Just remove it, and nothing will change. -Really, that singularity. What was the point of introdusing this concept at the last minute to never return to it again? Even uf we accept that it is a gateway to Caliborn's session, then 1) Why would it be produced by death of Jack Noir, and 2) How does it work with natural mechanics of Dead session? Bringing in the crowbar and Gamzee seems reasonable, but Yaldabaoth? Was there a Denizen battle on arrival, or S***b mechanics somehow retroactively removed Caliborn's default Denizen? -Why Doc had the clock? Was it general clock or Vriska-specific clock? And given implications of Caliborn's case, what it's destruction and repair mean for Vriska's and Spades Slick's mortality? I have one last chance for Slick to canonically be alive, I WANT TO BELIEVE-Hella lot of other things and foreshadowing i forgot about/too tired to list. So, yeah. Even if you DO an open ending, this is a perfect example how NOT to. This isn't a cut to "figure out the conclusion for yourself", this is a dump of shredded pieces of evidence and plot holes almost impossible to connect and figure out. And i can't help but wonder if Hussie even wanted to make an epilogue initially, or edited the newspost in response to giant negative reaction from the community. But all that being said, i don't regret reading Homestuck. I don't think there'll ever be a media i'll feel so attached to. I don't think i'll meet a character more inspiring than Caliborn. I don't think i'll meet a villain more endearing than Doc Scratch (kudos for using his omniscience to figure out what's up and leaving story while it was at its peak by the way). I don't think i'll get so much sweet music from any other single source. I don't think i'll get so much INSPIRATION from any other source. And more, and more, and more. But probably the most important of all them, i'll learn from Hussie's mistakes, and will try to evade them in making my own huge story. I still will be around to see what's up with epilogue and Hiveswap, but i'm not getting my hopes up. It was a good ride, guys, even if ending sucked. Good luck to you all. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 14:42:47 GMT
Oh my god. The reason we don't see the final battle between LE and the kids is that THERE IS NO BATTLE BETWEEN LE AND THE KIDS. Because his powers are lost as soon as the green sun is destroyed (see 4:24, his green flames dissipate and his eyes settle on the 8balls), he is now as vulnerable as pre-clock-smashing Caliborn. Which means that LE is "killed" by the house juju itself. It slams into the ground, causing cracks to form in the floor, which gives him no more ground to stand on. And presumably, he's then sucked into the black hole. The kids never come out. They can't--there's no door, not until after. there's like a 1/10 of le's powers which are dependant on green sun. his main strength is in clockwork majjywhatevers and inevitability. he simply CANNOT become vulnerable to all crap around here because that lattern went off |
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soeroah
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Post by soeroah on Apr 15, 2016 14:55:10 GMT
Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? I think it could have ended better, but I feel a good 95% of the story was incredibly well-written and intricate, and I always considered reading Homestuck to be more of an experience than a story, so I still get to theorise/talk with the fandom, read liveblogs, etc, so I don't feel like all my Homestuck is over just yet. I love the story and the medium's innovations. Music. Art. While I think it could have ended better, it's still one of my favourite fictional experiences ever, and I won't let nine minutes out of thousands taint my overall opinions. |
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Post by 2create on Apr 15, 2016 16:13:25 GMT
GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT
Homestuck was never about four kids trying to make a universe. It was about a webcomic author on his quest to make anime. Homsetuck is now anime. The End.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 15, 2016 16:21:18 GMT
GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT Homestuck was never about four kids trying to make a universe. It was about a webcomic author on his quest to make anime. Homsetuck is now anime. The End. We figured it out! We are done here guys, shut the forums down. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 15, 2016 16:22:50 GMT
Oh my god. The reason we don't see the final battle between LE and the kids is that THERE IS NO BATTLE BETWEEN LE AND THE KIDS. Because his powers are lost as soon as the green sun is destroyed (see 4:24, his green flames dissipate and his eyes settle on the 8balls), he is now as vulnerable as pre-clock-smashing Caliborn. Which means that LE is "killed" by the house juju itself. It slams into the ground, causing cracks to form in the floor, which gives him no more ground to stand on. And presumably, he's then sucked into the black hole. The kids never come out. They can't--there's no door, not until after. there's like a 1/10 of le's powers which are dependant on green sun. his main strength is in clockwork majjywhatevers and inevitability. he simply CANNOT become vulnerable to all crap around here because that lattern went off The Clockwork Majyyks were presumably canceled out by the House Juju being a Cueball. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 15, 2016 16:57:32 GMT
GUYS I FIGURED IT OUT Homestuck was never about four kids trying to make a universe. It was about a webcomic author on his quest to make anime. Homsetuck is now anime. The End. We figured it out! We are done here guys, shut the forums down. What, again? there's like a 1/10 of le's powers which are dependant on green sun. his main strength is in clockwork majjywhatevers and inevitability. he simply CANNOT become vulnerable to all crap around here because that lattern went off The Clockwork Majyyks were presumably canceled out by the House Juju being a Cueball. ....what? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2016 17:30:52 GMT
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cookiefonster
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Post by cookiefonster on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:01 GMT
Someone brought that up only a few days ago. But yeah, it's a great fanventure. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Apr 15, 2016 17:42:13 GMT
The Clockwork Majyyks were presumably canceled out by the House Juju being a Cueball. ....what? When the House Juju first exits the chest, it appears as a white ball, like the Cueball. There was presumably some kind of relation there. I was kinda rushed when I made that post, or I would have mentioned that Dave also has a sword alchemized with the Cueball. The Cueball can probably cancel out the Clockwork Majyyks because said Majyyks were acquired by breaking Caliborn's Godtier clock, and the Cueball is a missing piece that did not get broken by the Juju Breaker. For similar reasons, the Cueball should cancel out his Godtier-based immortality. This is why Hussie implied that the Cueball was his only weakness. That really leaves him with nothing but his Lord of Time powers, his normal Cherub powers, the Ring of Void, and whatever crazy weapons he has (the Staff and the Wand, it would seem). While still powerful, he is probably beatable now. Don't forget that he almost got beat by the Kids when he had the Clockwork Majyyks, his Godtier, his Cherub powers, and his unconditional immortality, and that John alone and unprepared beat him bloody when he had reached the top of the Godtiers. |
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Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 15, 2016 18:01:04 GMT
When the House Juju first exits the chest, it appears as a white ball, like the Cueball. There was presumably some kind of relation there. I was kinda rushed when I made that post, or I would have mentioned that Dave also has a sword alchemized with the Cueball. The Cueball can probably cancel out the Clockwork Majyyks because said Majyyks were acquired by breaking Caliborn's Godtier clock, and the Cueball is a missing piece that did not get broken by the Juju Breaker. For similar reasons, the Cueball should cancel out his Godtier-based immortality. This is why Hussie implied that the Cueball was his only weakness. That really leaves him with nothing but his Lord of Time powers, his normal Cherub powers, the Ring of Void, and whatever crazy weapons he has (the Staff and the Wand, it would seem). While still powerful, he is probably beatable now. Don't forget that he almost got beat by the Kids when he had the Clockwork Majyyks, his Godtier, his Cherub powers, and his unconditional immortality, and that John alone and unprepared beat him bloody when he had reached the top of the Godtiers. I'm not prepared to believe any of that. For one, we don't actually know if the Cueball is a weakness. It's not like we saw anyone try to cut off Union Jack's head with anything other than the Cueball sword. For another, there's no explicit relation between the Juju and the Cueball, except for the fact they're both...well, Jujus. For yet another, we don't even know what the House Juju does when used as a weapon. For all we know, it isn't offensive at all. |
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Post by sparkeletran on Apr 15, 2016 18:19:19 GMT
When the House Juju first exits the chest, it appears as a white ball, like the Cueball. There was presumably some kind of relation there. I was kinda rushed when I made that post, or I would have mentioned that Dave also has a sword alchemized with the Cueball. The Cueball can probably cancel out the Clockwork Majyyks because said Majyyks were acquired by breaking Caliborn's Godtier clock, and the Cueball is a missing piece that did not get broken by the Juju Breaker. For similar reasons, the Cueball should cancel out his Godtier-based immortality. This is why Hussie implied that the Cueball was his only weakness. That really leaves him with nothing but his Lord of Time powers, his normal Cherub powers, the Ring of Void, and whatever crazy weapons he has (the Staff and the Wand, it would seem). While still powerful, he is probably beatable now. Don't forget that he almost got beat by the Kids when he had the Clockwork Majyyks, his Godtier, his Cherub powers, and his unconditional immortality, and that John alone and unprepared beat him bloody when he had reached the top of the Godtiers. I'm not prepared to believe any of that. For one, we don't actually know if the Cueball is a weakness. It's not like we saw anyone try to cut off Union Jack's head with anything other than the Cueball sword. For another, there's no explicit relation between the Juju and the Cueball, except for the fact they're both...well, Jujus. For yet another, we don't even know what the House Juju does when used as a weapon. For all we know, it isn't offensive at all. Think it can be pretty safely assumed that the cueball IS a weakness. It's the only thing to ever visibly harm an iteration of Lord English (in a freeze frame you can see Jack English with a cut on his torso, other than the obvious beheading) and it's also just... been flat-out said to be a weakness. I'm not sure if there's any relation to the house juju, but the Cueball being a weakness is a very safe bet - there'd be no point to lying about it, especially if it wouldn't be revealed later on. |
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The One Guy
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Post by The One Guy on Apr 15, 2016 18:25:29 GMT
We figured it out! We are done here guys, shut the forums down. Ok, I'll go do that... Done. My time machine was acting up again, though, so I hope I didn't accidently do it a few weeks ago.  |
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Post by mageddondreams on Apr 15, 2016 18:41:43 GMT
All these Interpretations of the Ending full of satisfactory answers and appropriate symbolism are all fine and dandy. But does it not concern you that we need such hugely speculative and unsubstantiated guesses to actually call it an ending? No, because they're not speculative and unsubstantiated. They're exactly the sort of puzzliing things out from hints that the comic's been doing all along, that Hussie's said all along was intentional, and that the comic has trained anyone who has read all the way through in how to do correctly. It's not guessing to unpack the information implicit in what we have been given on the surface. |
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