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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 12, 2016 3:18:30 GMT
Actually, now on page 2318 another flash, I noticed it says the word Loading, which come to think of it I don't think these old ones used to do (later on in act 4 and beyond the percentage counter showed up). Has Andrew been restructuring the site behind the scenes I wonder? I think they always said "Loading", it's just the percentage meter that didn't exist until part way through the story. It's just that most of those earlier ones are small enough that they load quickly enough for the average person to not see much of the loading screen. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 12, 2016 6:11:27 GMT
So, I just thought of something to do with the ending cutting away from the Lord English battle. Caliborn, and thus Lord English, is basically just a huge attention hog, I think (as is Vriska). The story just finally stopped giving him the attention he craved.
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 12, 2016 8:57:54 GMT
So, I just thought of something to do with the ending cutting away from the Lord English battle. Caliborn, and thus Lord English, is basically just a huge attention hog, I think (as is Vriska). The story just finally stopped giving him the attention he craved. How though? Both Caliborn and Vriska have both demonstrated the ability to control the story in fairly direct ways, Caliborn can type into the Narrative Prompt and killed the author, and Vriska can mind control the author and literally wrested the story's attention back to her at one point. So, while I think the idea that the Story itself shuts down the antagonists by depriving them of the screen time is not a bad one, I really feel like there needs to actually be an in-universe cause for that to happen, something that's more powerful than Lord English and Vriska, which is a very short list of possibilities. muse!Calliope is really the only candidate, she was going on about how Paradox Space is a fabric of Ideas before apparently destroying it, but if that's the case, then that pretty much is a all-of-reality-dies ending, which rather contradicts all that stuff we saw with the kids and their happy-ever-after ending. |
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Post by Gab on Oct 12, 2016 15:02:13 GMT
I think they always said "Loading", it's just the percentage meter that didn't exist until part way through the story. It's just that most of those earlier ones are small enough that they load quickly enough for the average person to not see much of the loading screen. I don't know, did they? They sort of stand out to me, but it's not like I payed the most attention to loading screens. Maybe I'm just psyching myself out. How though? Both Caliborn and Vriska have both demonstrated the ability to control the story in fairly direct ways, Caliborn can type into the Narrative Prompt and killed the author, and Vriska can mind control the author and literally wrested the story's attention back to her at one point. So, while I think the idea that the Story itself shuts down the antagonists by depriving them of the screen time is not a bad one, I really feel like there needs to actually be an in-universe cause for that to happen, something that's more powerful than Lord English and Vriska, which is a very short list of possibilities. muse!Calliope is really the only candidate, she was going on about how Paradox Space is a fabric of Ideas before apparently destroying it, but if that's the case, then that pretty much is a all-of-reality-dies ending, which rather contradicts all that stuff we saw with the kids and their happy-ever-after ending. By ending the story, as per its original objectives. The goal was for the characters we were following to complete their session and create a new universe. Once they finally did that, nothing could change that fact. Not even characters as meta as LE or Vriska, who for all their awareness of the story, at the very end, really were just characters in the story like anybody else. To me, this symbolizes their defeat anyway. It demonstrates Vriska's ultimate downfall in that, for her single-minded quest to be significant, she ends up separated from anyone she could have called her friend, in a scene that will never resolve. Similarly English finds himself in this scenario, after having his control challenged by John's retcon ability. That's one theory among many, anyway. I actually suggested some time ago that English stopped the story himself to avoid letting us readers view his defeat. |
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Post by Blaperile on Oct 12, 2016 17:42:39 GMT
Those signature ending party banners seem to be acting up. Some of them aren't displaying for me. So, I just thought of something to do with the ending cutting away from the Lord English battle. Caliborn, and thus Lord English, is basically just a huge attention hog, I think (as is Vriska). The story just finally stopped giving him the attention he craved. How though? Both Caliborn and Vriska have both demonstrated the ability to control the story in fairly direct ways, Caliborn can type into the Narrative Prompt and killed the author, and Vriska can mind control the author and literally wrested the story's attention back to her at one point. So, while I think the idea that the Story itself shuts down the antagonists by depriving them of the screen time is not a bad one, I really feel like there needs to actually be an in-universe cause for that to happen, something that's more powerful than Lord English and Vriska, which is a very short list of possibilities. muse!Calliope is really the only candidate, she was going on about how Paradox Space is a fabric of Ideas before apparently destroying it, but if that's the case, then that pretty much is a all-of-reality-dies ending, which rather contradicts all that stuff we saw with the kids and their happy-ever-after ending. The way I like to see it is that in-comic Andrew ended the story as his way to "defeat" Lord English, what with the thumbs down he gave him very shortly before the final flash and all. |
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 12, 2016 20:28:44 GMT
Those signature ending party banners seem to be acting up. Some of them aren't displaying for me. How though? Both Caliborn and Vriska have both demonstrated the ability to control the story in fairly direct ways, Caliborn can type into the Narrative Prompt and killed the author, and Vriska can mind control the author and literally wrested the story's attention back to her at one point. So, while I think the idea that the Story itself shuts down the antagonists by depriving them of the screen time is not a bad one, I really feel like there needs to actually be an in-universe cause for that to happen, something that's more powerful than Lord English and Vriska, which is a very short list of possibilities. muse!Calliope is really the only candidate, she was going on about how Paradox Space is a fabric of Ideas before apparently destroying it, but if that's the case, then that pretty much is a all-of-reality-dies ending, which rather contradicts all that stuff we saw with the kids and their happy-ever-after ending. The way I like to see it is that in-comic Andrew ended the story as his way to "defeat" Lord English, what with the thumbs down he gave him very shortly before the final flash and all. But as I just said: Both Caliborn and Vriska have demonstrated power over Hussie when it comes to the Story's direction and content. How/Why did Hussie suddenly have control of the story when he hadn't before? Or is it that part of Homestuck's subversiveness and non-traditional storytelling: that the ending is just a straight-up, unashamed Deus-Ex-Machina on purpose? |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 12, 2016 20:34:45 GMT
Those signature ending party banners seem to be acting up. Some of them aren't displaying for me. Same. How though? Both Caliborn and Vriska have both demonstrated the ability to control the story in fairly direct ways, Caliborn can type into the Narrative Prompt and killed the author, and Vriska can mind control the author and literally wrested the story's attention back to her at one point. So, while I think the idea that the Story itself shuts down the antagonists by depriving them of the screen time is not a bad one, I really feel like there needs to actually be an in-universe cause for that to happen, something that's more powerful than Lord English and Vriska, which is a very short list of possibilities. muse!Calliope is really the only candidate, she was going on about how Paradox Space is a fabric of Ideas before apparently destroying it, but if that's the case, then that pretty much is a all-of-reality-dies ending, which rather contradicts all that stuff we saw with the kids and their happy-ever-after ending. The way I like to see it is that in-comic Andrew ended the story as his way to "defeat" Lord English, what with the thumbs down he gave him very shortly before the final flash and all. I like this theory. Personally, I think too many people put too much stock in the idea that (in-story) Hussie lost total control of the narrative to Caliborn. I think he lost a lot less control than people generally seem to assume. |
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Post by melonlord on Oct 13, 2016 1:53:53 GMT
So assuming for a moment that Hussie CAN just end the story, the whole idea behind ending the story to defeat Lord English is that he's trapped in Homestuck, right? He's limited to the narrative, so stopping the story just leaves him suspended there, his goals unfulfilled.
But if that's the case, wouldn't the kids still be trapped as well?
They're part of the story and limited to it as well, after all. Even if you buy into the "they left the comic through the white door" theory, they never actually went through the door on-screen. As the story stands, they're still on that platform when it ends; they're still in the same state of suspension Lord English is, trapped forever within the short, limited reality of Homestuck.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 13, 2016 2:33:43 GMT
So assuming for a moment that Hussie CAN just end the story, the whole idea behind ending the story to defeat Lord English is that he's trapped in Homestuck, right? He's limited to the narrative, so stopping the story just leaves him suspended there, his goals unfulfilled. But if that's the case, wouldn't the kids still be trapped as well? They're part of the story and limited to it as well, after all. Even if you buy into the "they left the comic through the white door" theory, they never actually went through the door on-screen. As the story stands, they're still on that platform when it ends; they're still in the same state of suspension Lord English is, trapped forever within the short, limited reality of Homestuck. No, no. The idea is that Hussie was acting to spite the attention-seeking Lord English, who killed him, and Vriska, who mind-controlled him and spurned his advances, by taking away their relevance at the end. Instead, our heroes' completion of their quest, winning SBurb, is most important to the story, not either of them. He refuses to give them a proper conclusion or any closer by cutting away just before the end. You could argue that the kids did not get much more in the way of conclusions and closer, and, while they did get more in the way of the flash-forward, that is true, for now. But I bet four hundred and thirteen Cal Coins that the Epilogue will be focusing on them, and not Lord English. |
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Post by obsidalicious on Oct 13, 2016 2:41:12 GMT
But I bet four hundred and thirteen Cal Coins that the Epilogue will be focusing on them, and not Lord English. But since Lord English (and Vriska) have the power to influence the story directly as we've seen, why would the epilogue be safe from them? Vriska was able to literally cause a transition back to her situation in A6I5, why won't/couldn't she do that in the epilogue and thus put English also back into the scene? |
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Post by melonlord on Oct 13, 2016 2:44:06 GMT
So assuming for a moment that Hussie CAN just end the story, the whole idea behind ending the story to defeat Lord English is that he's trapped in Homestuck, right? He's limited to the narrative, so stopping the story just leaves him suspended there, his goals unfulfilled. But if that's the case, wouldn't the kids still be trapped as well? They're part of the story and limited to it as well, after all. Even if you buy into the "they left the comic through the white door" theory, they never actually went through the door on-screen. As the story stands, they're still on that platform when it ends; they're still in the same state of suspension Lord English is, trapped forever within the short, limited reality of Homestuck. No, no. The idea is that Hussie was acting to spite the attention-seeking Lord English, who killed him, and Vriska, who mind-controlled him and spurned his advances, by taking away their relevance at the end. Instead, our heroes' completion of their quest, winning SBurb, is most important to the story, not either of them. He refuses to give them a proper conclusion or any closer by cutting away just before the end. You could argue that the kids did not get much more in the way of conclusions and closer, and, while they did get more in the way of the flash-forward, that is true, for now. But I bet four hundred and thirteen Cal Coins that the Epilogue will be focusing on them, and not Lord English. Ah, alright, I misunderstood. More of a metaphorical victory then, deriving them of the spotlight at the climax of the Big Damn Battle of Ultimate Destiny, rather than literally defeating them. There's so many of these theories, I tend to blur them together sometimes. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 13, 2016 2:55:40 GMT
No, no. The idea is that Hussie was acting to spite the attention-seeking Lord English, who killed him, and Vriska, who mind-controlled him and spurned his advances, by taking away their relevance at the end. Instead, our heroes' completion of their quest, winning SBurb, is most important to the story, not either of them. He refuses to give them a proper conclusion or any closer by cutting away just before the end. You could argue that the kids did not get much more in the way of conclusions and closer, and, while they did get more in the way of the flash-forward, that is true, for now. But I bet four hundred and thirteen Cal Coins that the Epilogue will be focusing on them, and not Lord English. Ah, alright, I misunderstood. More of a metaphorical victory then, deriving them of the spotlight at the climax of the Big Damn Battle of Ultimate Destiny, rather than literally defeating them. There's so many of these theories, I tend to blur them together sometimes. Not really a victory at all, though it neither challenges nor supports the existence of a victory. Just (character) Hussie spiting his own characters. |
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Post by Blaperile on Oct 13, 2016 17:23:57 GMT
I like this theory. Personally, I think too many people put too much stock in the idea that (in-story) Hussie lost total control of the narrative to Caliborn. I think he lost a lot less control than people generally seem to assume. Exactly. Andrew's comment in the Act 6 Act 6 booklet even lampshades the fact that he's not really lost control over the story, he's just making Caliborn thinks he has. I think the only time Andrew didn't have it under control was when Doc Scratch took it over, Andrew needed to confront him and all to regain control over it. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 13, 2016 18:52:29 GMT
I like this theory. Personally, I think too many people put too much stock in the idea that (in-story) Hussie lost total control of the narrative to Caliborn. I think he lost a lot less control than people generally seem to assume. Exactly. Andrew's comment in the Act 6 Act 6 booklet even lampshades the fact that he's not really lost control over the story, he's just making Caliborn thinks he has. I think the only time Andrew didn't have it under control was when Doc Scratch took it over, Andrew needed to confront him and all to regain control over it. Even Hussie's death was not really an issue for him, as it got him to the Dreambubbles, where he could deliver the Ring of Life. And, if you subscribe to the notion that wearing said ring brings you back until it is removed and you are killed, he probably did not even stay dead. He was certainly in control. |
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Post by melonlord on Oct 19, 2016 17:01:52 GMT
Changing topics, has anyone had a chance to reread the comic since the ending? Does it seem better/worse/different when read as a whole?
I feel like a lot of act 6 and the finale was poorly paced when I was reading it, but I wonder if that was just the serial updates distorting things, and if it reads better as a complete piece.
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Post by Blaperile on Oct 19, 2016 17:59:08 GMT
Changing topics, has anyone had a chance to reread the comic since the ending? Does it seem better/worse/different when read as a whole? I feel like a lot of act 6 and the finale was poorly paced when I was reading it, but I wonder if that was just the serial updates distorting things, and if it reads better as a complete piece. I did reread Homestuck 4-5 months ago, yeah. I personally think Andrew's statement the comic reads better archivally than serially is the truth. I still think the experience of everything around it makes serial reading overall the superior experience, but purely in terms of the comic I think it's a lot better archivally. Some parts that to me felt like they went on for ages as I read them serially, went insanely quick on my reread. Like, I could honestly not believe how fast Act 6 Act 6 Intermission 5 was over during my reread, I thought it would have felt a lot longer. That was the biggest surprise to me during my most recent reread. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 19, 2016 18:11:08 GMT
Changing topics, has anyone had a chance to reread the comic since the ending? Does it seem better/worse/different when read as a whole? I feel like a lot of act 6 and the finale was poorly paced when I was reading it, but I wonder if that was just the serial updates distorting things, and if it reads better as a complete piece. I did reread Homestuck 4-5 months ago, yeah. I personally think Andrew's statement the comic reads better archivally than serially is the truth. I still think the experience of everything around it makes serial reading overall the superior experience, but purely in terms of the comic I think it's a lot better archivally. Some parts that to me felt like they went on for ages as I read them serially, went insanely quick on my reread. Like, I could honestly not believe how fast Act 6 Act 6 Intermission 5 was over during my reread, I thought it would have felt a lot longer. That was the biggest surprise to me during my most recent reread. But how did it affect the impact of the ending? |
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Post by Blaperile on Oct 20, 2016 10:40:05 GMT
I did reread Homestuck 4-5 months ago, yeah. I personally think Andrew's statement the comic reads better archivally than serially is the truth. I still think the experience of everything around it makes serial reading overall the superior experience, but purely in terms of the comic I think it's a lot better archivally. Some parts that to me felt like they went on for ages as I read them serially, went insanely quick on my reread. Like, I could honestly not believe how fast Act 6 Act 6 Intermission 5 was over during my reread, I thought it would have felt a lot longer. That was the biggest surprise to me during my most recent reread. But how did it affect the impact of the ending? To me, the impact of the ending itself didn't change much on my reread. I'm still as positive about it as I was before. |
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Post by TrickleJest on Oct 20, 2016 11:50:29 GMT
But how did it affect the impact of the ending? To me, the impact of the ending itself didn't change much on my reread. I'm still as positive about it as I was before. Erm... can you please explain what Archivally and Serially means here? |
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foodman
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Post by foodman on Oct 20, 2016 11:58:03 GMT
Serially is when you reda it while its being writen ( as updates are comeing out) Achrivalliy is when you read when its all or mostly already writen and you can re continuosly at you own pace.
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Post by Gab on Oct 21, 2016 20:52:20 GMT
www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004058For the life of me, I swear that line didn't used to be there. If I didn't think it was wildly implausible, I'd think that line was surreptitiously slipped in the comic after the fact, because in all the times I've read the comic and seen this panel, I have absolutely no memory of this line, and have never seen it referenced or mentioned anywhere, by anyone. Chalk that up to a particularly emphatic Obvious Thing I Missed, I guess.
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 21, 2016 21:46:37 GMT
www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004058For the life of me, I swear that line didn't used to be there. If I didn't think it was wildly implausible, I'd think that line was surreptitiously slipped in the comic after the fact, because in all the times I've read the comic and seen this panel, I have absolutely no memory of this line, and have never seen it referenced or mentioned anywhere, by anyone. Chalk that up to a particularly emphatic Obvious Thing I Missed, I guess. I remember it from my first read-through. |
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Post by TrickleJest on Oct 22, 2016 6:30:19 GMT
www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004058For the life of me, I swear that line didn't used to be there. If I didn't think it was wildly implausible, I'd think that line was surreptitiously slipped in the comic after the fact, because in all the times I've read the comic and seen this panel, I have absolutely no memory of this line, and have never seen it referenced or mentioned anywhere, by anyone. Chalk that up to a particularly emphatic Obvious Thing I Missed, I guess. I remember it from my first read-through. Whoa, I seriously haven't seen that either. Those words were really new to me. Guess we're all blind. |
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dldracorex
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Post by dldracorex on Oct 22, 2016 6:46:04 GMT
I remember it from my first read-through. Whoa, I seriously haven't seen that either. Those words were really new to me. Guess we're all blind. Why did you think Pounce was named after Juan Ponce de León? |
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Post by Blaperile on Oct 22, 2016 9:15:42 GMT
www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=004058For the life of me, I swear that line didn't used to be there. If I didn't think it was wildly implausible, I'd think that line was surreptitiously slipped in the comic after the fact, because in all the times I've read the comic and seen this panel, I have absolutely no memory of this line, and have never seen it referenced or mentioned anywhere, by anyone. Chalk that up to a particularly emphatic Obvious Thing I Missed, I guess. Yeah that was already there. If I'm not mistaken, the infamous Nepetaquest forum adventure even based itself partly on that line (it's been years since I last read it though, so I'm not sure anymore). |
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