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Post by PieTheDerptacular on Apr 14, 2016 3:15:52 GMT
The more I think about it, I'm slowly starting to like the ending more. Imglasses' post definitely helped. Either way, I've enjoyed all of Homestuck a lot. It's a masterpiece. I also want to point this out: Illuminati confirmed? Edit: Wow, I keep accidentally stealing the top of the page. Heh. Goodnight, everyone. Happy 4/13.
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Post by ephemeralApotheosis on Apr 14, 2016 3:41:54 GMT
Perhaps... the ending presently eluding us is only the latest sleight of hand in the repertoire of an unseen riddler, one to engender a sense not of mirth, but of lack. His coarse schemes are those less of a prankster than a common pickpocket. Guys, HE WAS PLANNING THIS FROM DAY ONE! We were never meant to get the closure we wanted.. You have a feeling it's going to be a long day rest of your life...
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Post by BookwyrmBOTPH on Apr 14, 2016 3:43:57 GMT
Finally got around to responding to this flash. It looked beautiful, and if it had been part of the finale instead of the whole thing, I would have absolutely NO problems with the flash itself. But I just feel... so empty. Hussie is such a master of twists and tying everything back that even if the open-endedness was on purpose, it still feels half assed. I'm pretty confident Hussie is going to psyche us out, because there's no way he could believe that the majority of the fans would be satisfied with the end. So I'm not totally distraught at the "ending" of Homestuck, but I couldn't resist putting together a really shitty video that pretty well sums up my feelings on the end of the comic. Even if it turns out to be a psyche moment, this is definitely how I feel about the ending as is. youtu.be/8t3QqK8L5Es
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 3:48:31 GMT
If it was a psyche, wouldn't that have happened by now though? I do agree that the whole 'Homestuck became the anime it's always meant to be' sounds kind of trolling, but at the same time I'm having doubts now.
Unless he's waiting until the end of 4/13. It's still the 13th in America isn't it?
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Post by therationaldove on Apr 14, 2016 3:51:30 GMT
Yes. It'll be 4/14 in ten minutes or so EST and I believe that that's the timezone Hussie is in.
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Post by BookwyrmBOTPH on Apr 14, 2016 3:53:20 GMT
Yeah, I'm still hopeful, but if he's gonna do it, it should be soon
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loading
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
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Post by loading on Apr 14, 2016 3:58:47 GMT
Hm. Maybe there's actually a good reason it played out the way it did? I'm liking it more with every watch.
SBURB is a game about growing up. The kids vbeat SBURB. They've grown up.
Lord English is on many levels a metaphor for death. The kids have JUST grown up. Why should they be fighting death at this point? Even if they won that fight, the implication it creates is not a note to end on. A nice ending is. They've earned what they have, even if it could have been cooler. And who's to say it won't end up cooler, anyway? For all we know, the epilogue could be a 30 minute flash of stuff that wasn't in Act 7. But even if it could have been better with some of the more interesting theories playing out, I don't think this ending was bad at all.
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Post by Captain Desdinova on Apr 14, 2016 4:04:49 GMT
There is an interesting post I saw earlier on Tumblr, it explains a few possibilities if anyone is interested. It's honestly pretty late to the party tonight though, it's probably been said in here already!
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 14, 2016 4:08:09 GMT
All these theories about sinking English to the Black Hole: What would that accomplish? As far as anyone is able to establish, English didn't lose his Immortality, so a Black Hole couldn't kill him. All it could do is either trap him or send him somewhere. Given the sheer power and determination that Lord English possesses, I can't imagine either possibility to actually be an effective, permanent solution. Since English is immortal, and time flows weirdly out there, you'd need to ensure his prison held for literally eternity. Could we all be absolutely certain that millions of relative years from now a sneaky Kurloz ghost won't get a hold of a teleporter and just beam him out of the event horizon or some other nonsense. Plus, if that really was the way Lord English was defeated, then what was the point of the JuJu? Were the four kids really the only force capable of pushing a dude into the Black Hole that literally right behind him? Keeping in mind that there were hundreds if not thousands of STRONG and/or Telekinetic Ghosts right there, also very capable of pushing. My theory for how Hussie plans to resolve all of this: Epilogue 1
Epilogue 2
Epilogue 3
Intermission 3
Epilogue 4
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 5 Epilogue 2
Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 1
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 2
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 3
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 4
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Intermission 5
Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6 Epilogue 6
Epilogue 7
You're missing a dozen or so recaps. Hm. Maybe there's actually a good reason it played out the way it did? I'm liking it more with every watch. SBURB is a game about growing up. The kids vbeat SBURB. They've grown up. Lord English is on many levels a metaphor for death. The kids have JUST grown up. Why should they be fighting death at this point? Even if they won that fight, the implication it creates is not a note to end on. A nice ending is. They've earned what they have, even if it could have been cooler. And who's to say it won't end up cooler, anyway? For all we know, the epilogue could be a 30 minute flash of stuff that wasn't in Act 7. But even if it could have been better with some of the more interesting theories playing out, I don't think this ending was bad at all. Have they actually beaten the game? We're told that the winners of a Sburb Session are supposed to not only Create a Universe, but also care for it. Can a Universe truly be cared for if its caretakers willingly leave such an omnicidal, corruptive monster like English out there? If the kids didn't feel they had the ability to stop English then that'd be fine, but with all the stupid ways these kids have been powered up 17 ways to kingdom come, they really should be able to take on English. At the very least, would it have been too much for them to at least just text Vriska and ask her how things are going?
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 14, 2016 4:39:56 GMT
Another weird thing is that Hussie's Trickster Mario speech almost seems to apply more to this ending than it does the Trickster arc. Which implies either that Hussie KNOWS this ending is bad, and will presumably supplement it with an ending that is more consistent with the moral, or that he forgot the moral of his own story? Or just changed his mind since then? But he had already started storyboarding this animation before he wrote that speech, sooo... What? I'm confused.
I can forgive an open ending, but I can't forgive an ending that flagrantly defies the moral that was espoused by the entire story up until that point. Hussie went out of his way to show us that the retcons had erased Vriska's personal development, I mean think about it. He knew that the story was gonna end this way, but instead of just turning Vriska into an actual Mary Sue and going back on his message completely, he went out of his way to write her as an asshole and an abusive prick who didn't learn from her mistakes, which is actually consistent with the moral. So... I just don't get it??? What???
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Post by Adept on Apr 14, 2016 4:40:30 GMT
Hm. Maybe there's actually a good reason it played out the way it did? I'm liking it more with every watch. SBURB is a game about growing up. The kids vbeat SBURB. They've grown up. Lord English is on many levels a metaphor for death. The kids have JUST grown up. Why should they be fighting death at this point? Even if they won that fight, the implication it creates is not a note to end on. A nice ending is. They've earned what they have, even if it could have been cooler. And who's to say it won't end up cooler, anyway? For all we know, the epilogue could be a 30 minute flash of stuff that wasn't in Act 7. But even if it could have been better with some of the more interesting theories playing out, I don't think this ending was bad at all. I actually really really like this! And yeah, I definitely don't think this was a bad ending either.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 4:54:57 GMT
Another weird thing is that Hussie's Trickster Mario speech almost seems to apply more to this ending than it does the Trickster arc. Which implies either that Hussie KNOWS this ending is bad, and will presumably supplement it with an ending that is more consistent with the moral, or that he forgot the moral of his own story? Or just changed his mind since then? But he had already started storyboarding this animation before he wrote that speech, sooo... What? I'm confused. I can forgive an open ending, but I can't forgive an ending that flagrantly defies the moral that was espoused by the entire story up until that point. Hussie went out of his way to show us that the retcons had erased Vriska's personal development, I mean think about it. He knew that the story was gonna end this way, but instead of just turning Vriska into an actual Mary Sue and going back on his message completely, he went out of his way to write her as an asshole and an abusive prick who didn't learn from her mistakes, which is actually consistent with the moral. So... I just don't get it??? What??? Well Hussie does like Vriska a lot, considering she's the only one out of the 'troll villains' to still be a main character and not get that much punishment for her mistakes. Although, I've always thought that Hussie is aware of the fact that Vriska's views need to be challenged. I mean look what he did to her when she wanted to fight Jack Noir. She got stabbed in the back and died, hence not being able to meet John. I thought a similar thing was going to happen with her fighting Lord English. Maybe he thought that Tavros getting the ghost army was enough? But Vriska and Meenah ended up taking that army and becoming the center of attention anyway.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 14, 2016 5:05:00 GMT
Although, I've always thought that Hussie is aware of the fact that Vriska's views need to be challenged. I mean look what he did to her when she wanted to fight Jack Noir. She got stabbed in the back and died, hence not being able to meet John. I thought a similar thing was going to happen with her fighting Lord English. Maybe he thought that Tavros getting the ghost army was enough? But Vriska and Meenah ended up taking that army and becoming the center of attention anyway. That's what gets me! That moment was so tragic and poetic, because it was the case of a girl genuinely trying to get better and move on from her past, being justly punished for her past mistakes in such a way that moving on was made impossible. But THIS ending was the case of a girl who didn't learn from her mistakes, getting rewarded for... NOT learning anything? What the fuck? This is genuinely a bad ending. Unless the implication is that she was killed, but then the execution is bad: We should have gotten to see her expression of horror as reality crumbles around her and she realizes that her foresight was not absolute, followed by the "Heroic" death that ironically serves as her Just reward. I could have lived with that, not how I would have done it, but it still would have made sense. The thing is, we didn't even get that. I suspect that the epilogue must have something to do with this conundrum, and Terezi specifically. But we'll see.
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Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 14, 2016 5:29:16 GMT
Although, I've always thought that Hussie is aware of the fact that Vriska's views need to be challenged. I mean look what he did to her when she wanted to fight Jack Noir. She got stabbed in the back and died, hence not being able to meet John. I thought a similar thing was going to happen with her fighting Lord English. Maybe he thought that Tavros getting the ghost army was enough? But Vriska and Meenah ended up taking that army and becoming the center of attention anyway. That's what gets me! That moment was so tragic and poetic, because it was the case of a girl genuinely trying to get better and move on from her past, being justly punished for her past mistakes in such a way that moving on was made impossible. But THIS ending was the case of a girl who didn't learn from her mistakes, getting rewarded for... NOT learning anything? What the fuck? This is genuinely a bad ending. Unless the implication is that she was killed, but then the execution is bad: We should have gotten to see her expression of horror as reality crumbles around her and she realizes that her foresight was not absolute, followed by the "Heroic" death that ironically serves as her Just reward. I could have lived with that, not how I would have done it, but it still would have made sense. The thing is, we didn't even get that. I suspect that the epilogue must have something to do with this conundrum, and Terezi specifically. But we'll see. I'm also annoyed at the fact that the Vriska who has actually had development and may have learned more in terms of morals ended up being treated terribly and possibly double dying, meanwhile the Vriska who never learned anything gets all the rewards and attention. I actually thought that Vriska getting distracted by Hussie in Collide was going to lead to something, like LE getting defeated without her being there, but apparently that was just filler?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2016 5:31:52 GMT
It's nice to see people talking about homestuck again. It's been years on my end!
I'm not sure what to feel about the Ending. It was a massive spectacle to be sure, and I felt happy knowing that a good portion of the characters I cared about got out alive and are going to rebuild. Maybe it was because It's been so long since I've read homestuck entirely and my memories are faded, but...I don't really care about any of the character arcs that went unrealized or that the game itself(SBURB) got horribly derailed. I feel like that was part of the charm, was that the comic never felt really...'clean' or 'neat.' Things happened, sometimes they were never explored, because the nature of the events means that they can't really be explained or fit into a neat and clean narrative where everything makes sense. Someone I read put the ending in a way that actually made everything feel..right, even if the characters never managed to get their final words in before action took over. Lord English took over the comic, both figuratively and pretty much literally. He is also incapable of 'moving on' because of his nature, he's pretty stuck in his ways and thoughts and even when he gets super beefy he never actually matures at all. However, the characters other than him DO mature. They're able to move on and close this 'Act' despite not getting the final climactic battle with LE, because that would at this point be essentially just be more spectacle and power-wanking..which is pretty much what LE thrives on. Being strong and never giving up. So in concert with Calliope, they defeat him by doing pretty much just that. Giving up and moving on, ending the story. LE doesn't give up, so he's still in the story, still stuck in that narrative(whether it's an actual force or a mental one, I'unno, it's like 1 am) and that conflict. So maybe it only made sense to me, but the idea that LE still is 'stuck' in the story while everyone else is outside of it is as much of a protection as any other. ...again, I didn't put too much stock into the individual character arcs. (..also off topic but I had a hankering for a dumb idea of mine that involves that 4th edition hack for Homestuck, Fire Emblem, and a BIT of a tweaking on the mechanics of SBURB for some dumb shenanigans)
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Post by pointycatears on Apr 14, 2016 5:34:18 GMT
I'm tired of seeing people say how bad the ending was. Yes, it did leave a lot of unanswered questions, but the animation was really good to watch. Besides, Hussie said there would be an epilogue, I have faith in him to answer most of our questions.
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Post by obsidalicious on Apr 14, 2016 5:45:43 GMT
I'm tired of seeing people say how bad the ending was. Yes, it did leave a lot of unanswered questions, but the animation was really good to watch. Besides, Hussie said there would be an epilogue, I have faith in him to answer most of our questions. No one has any beef with the art, it's all about the content. The epilogue would have to be one hell of a text dump, jumping all over the place to answer all the questions. Even if it is that, there are some things an Epilogue can't do, like justify all the various foreshadowings that were just dropped. Or make up for all the things earlier in the story that we tolerated under the assumption that they would be countered/undone/redone by the end but weren't.
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Post by sparkeletran on Apr 14, 2016 5:47:57 GMT
I'll admit I'd be somewhat disappointed if it turns out Vriska's totally fine and dandy after all - not enough to ruin the ending for me, but still somewhat. I definitely hope she ended up left behind in some manner, trapped in the broken Furthest Ring or something.
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Post by bzakbzakbzak on Apr 14, 2016 5:51:15 GMT
In terms of an epilogue, all I really require is a recap page labeled AH: Fondly regard creation.
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loading
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
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Post by loading on Apr 14, 2016 5:51:34 GMT
Hm. Going back to my point about growing up and death, what exactly does this say about Vriska? Is the reason that she's fighting Lord English that she's already grown up and is metaphorically ready to fight death? Or is it that she refuses to grow up and therefore has no alternative? Or is this whole line of thought just pretty stupid?
EDIT: 4 OUT OF 13 OF THE PEOPLE ON THE ENDGAME PLATFORM WERE FROM THE UNIVERSE IT ALL STARTED IN, B1. GODDAMMIT HUSSIE.
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thecrystalship
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 14, 2016 5:56:47 GMT
Hm. Going back to my point about growing up and death, what exactly does this say about Vriska? Is the reason that she's fighting Lord English that she's already grown up and is metaphorically ready to fight death? Or is it that she refuses to grow up and therefore has no alternative? Or is this whole line of thought just pretty stupid? It says that she belongs trapped in the world of the game with all of the ghosts and Lord English himself, a rabble of teens who are literally incapable of maturing. Because she's still playing the game, she's still acting out her fantasy as the shounen protagonist. Her and LE are more alike than they are different, they personify basically the same philosophy.
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loading
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Post by loading on Apr 14, 2016 6:00:04 GMT
That's a decent analysis on Vriska, but it's a stretch to claim it applies to Caliborn.
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Post by sparkeletran on Apr 14, 2016 6:02:44 GMT
That's a decent analysis on Vriska, but it's a stretch to claim it applies to Caliborn. I dunno, Caliborn being eternally stunted to some extent was something I think the story was shooting for. Maybe not in the same manner as Vriska in terms of being the shounen hero who never leaves the game, but him refusing to grow up is still valid imo.
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thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
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Post by thecrystalship on Apr 14, 2016 6:06:50 GMT
That's a decent analysis on Vriska, but it's a stretch to claim it applies to Caliborn. Caliborn is the same, he's just living out his fantasy as the villain instead of the hero. They're both power gamers who cheated their way to finish, and cheated themselves out of personal development. Although honestly, John and Terezi are also culpable, and it seems ridiculous to me that they apparently never learned this lesson? They just kept believing in Vriska? Why does Lord English end up alone, as he should, but Vriska retains the support of the protagonists? I don't get it, there are so many aspects of this ending that make John and the others look like sociopaths almost.
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Post by loading on Apr 14, 2016 6:11:07 GMT
That's a decent analysis on Vriska, but it's a stretch to claim it applies to Caliborn. Caliborn is the same, he's just living out his fantasy as the villain instead of the hero. They're both power gamers who cheated their way to finish, and cheated themselves out of personal development. Although honestly, John and Terezi are also culpable, and it seems ridiculous to me that they apparently never learned this lesson? They just kept believing in Vriska? Why does Lord English end up alone, as he should, but Vriska retains the support of the protagonists? I don't get it, there are so many aspects of this ending that make John and the others look like sociopaths almost. Well, they are. They DID kill off humanity, and they didn't actually seem too heavily affected. I think there was MAYBE 1 page where humanity dying was talked about as more than a background thing? But that aside, I do see your point now. But if they're opposites and Vriska is an antihero, is Caliborn an antivillain in that he acts like a good guy? Becuase I don't see that AT ALL.
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