cookiefonster
Dead
TAKE US THEIR FRESH JIMMY
Posts: 723
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by cookiefonster on Apr 16, 2016 23:33:07 GMT
Also, we already know the Matriorb restored the Troll race. We saw those Trolls that got killed by the Cherubs their father. Huh I forgot about that. Still, that probably should've been shown onscreen. |
|
|
|
Post by psychoticbark on Apr 16, 2016 23:49:26 GMT
I want to know where his story was going, but there's simply no way for us to know—unless his epilogue is fairly plot-heavy, even though epilogues are generally just about how the characters are doing. Yes, despite many taking it that way, I don't think the news post implies that the hypothetical epilogue will answer the big open questions of how those key elements danced together at the end of the story. If Hussie does an epilogue, I expect it would be a place to have fun with some of the other dangling refrances, and also to give us the last helpings of dialog many readers were hoping for. I guess in the course of that some "did X survive?" questions can get some answers. But the news post separately addresses the open nature of the ending: Quite a lot less definite, and all about commentary / notes rather than more story. |
|
|
|
Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 16, 2016 23:59:15 GMT
I want to know where his story was going, but there's simply no way for us to know—unless his epilogue is fairly plot-heavy, even though epilogues are generally just about how the characters are doing. Yes, despite many taking it that way, I don't think the news post implies that the hypothetical epilogue will answer the big open questions of how those key elements danced together at the end of the story. If Hussie does an epilogue, I expect it would be a place to have fun with some of the other dangling refrances, and also to give us the last helpings of dialog many readers were hoping for. I guess in the course of that some "did X survive?" questions can get some answers. But the news post separately addresses the open nature of the ending: Quite a lot less definite, and all about commentary / notes rather than more story. To be fair, if there was meant to be more story and that was meant to be a twist and/or surprise, he wouldn't say anything about it. And if this was made just to psyche people out, until it plays out he really can't say anything at all about why he came up with this the way he did. |
|
dldracorex
Jade Sylph
Posts: 1,343
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by dldracorex on Apr 17, 2016 1:52:03 GMT
So, predictions for the Epilogue?
Personally, I can not see it ending any way other than someone boggling vacantly at these shenanigans, some kid from a new species playing the game, and/or they cycle of stupidity being complete. I am hoping for Fedora Freak boggling and a Squiddle playing.
|
|
partymember57
Gadabout Pipsqueak
Best Fraymotif
Posts: 126
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by partymember57 on Apr 17, 2016 1:59:23 GMT
Hoping the MSPA reader shows up one last time. He can be like the fandom's collective polarization over the ending or something. He'll just sit there wondering what happened, then explode out of frustration.
|
|
|
|
Post by thezcmme on Apr 17, 2016 2:04:54 GMT
I was hoping for some plot holes to be filled in and maybe, the very last shot with Beta Kids: Pose as a team. The world is real.
|
|
dldracorex
Jade Sylph
Posts: 1,343
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by dldracorex on Apr 17, 2016 2:07:55 GMT
Hoping the MSPA reader shows up one last time. He can be like the fandom's collective polarization over the ending or something. He'll just sit there wondering what happened, then explode out of frustration. No, no, no, he'll walk up to the stump, pull out the gun, hold it up to his head, pull the trigger, and then... *click* *click* *click* ... He was out of bullets. That, or after getting the gun and holding it up, we'll cut to him busting into Hussie's apartment and opening fire. |
|
partymember57
Gadabout Pipsqueak
Best Fraymotif
Posts: 126
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by partymember57 on Apr 17, 2016 2:10:12 GMT
Hoping the MSPA reader shows up one last time. He can be like the fandom's collective polarization over the ending or something. He'll just sit there wondering what happened, then explode out of frustration. No, no, no, he'll walk up to the stump, pull out the gun, hold it up to his head, pull the trigger, and then... *click* *click* *click* ... He was out of bullets. That, or after getting the gun and holding it up, we'll cut to him busting into Hussie's apartment and opening fire. You know, Hussie was right there when LE dies. Maybe the black hole sucked him up and trapped him with LE for all eternity. It would explain why the ending is so abrupt-he got sucked in before he could finish writing it. |
|
dldracorex
Jade Sylph
Posts: 1,343
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by dldracorex on Apr 17, 2016 2:58:10 GMT
Maybe the Epilogue will be typed by that crappy Hussie that wrote that one recap? Lord English never destroyed it.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Paradoxical Insurgent on Apr 17, 2016 3:19:30 GMT
Maybe the Epilogue will be typed by that crappy Hussie that wrote that one recap? Lord English never destroyed it. You mean Felt!Hussie? He's the same one that was gunned down by LE |
|
dldracorex
Jade Sylph
Posts: 1,343
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by dldracorex on Apr 17, 2016 3:24:09 GMT
Maybe the Epilogue will be typed by that crappy Hussie that wrote that one recap? Lord English never destroyed it. You mean Felt!Hussie? He's the same one that was gunned down by LE No, that was just normal Hussie. I mean the extra shitty one seen here, which is evidently capable of typing a recap. Edit: I know they are pretty hard to tell apart, but if you look closely, one is slightly worse than the other. |
|
|
|
Post by Gab on Apr 17, 2016 4:08:31 GMT
I was actually pretty proud of my cue ball theorizing train of thought post and am slightly saddened nobody acknowledged it. But I'll shush and quit being so selfish ;F It's always fun when we get to infer the answers to questions in Homestuck. It was always a big mystery how Grandpa got into the Medium, and we were never told explicitly, but by mid-Act 6 we had enough information to figure it out ourselves. But with this ending, there's several theories that are equally valid. There's no way to truly figure out the answer, so we just have to make up an ending or go with one of many endings fans have come up with. That's really just bad story telling. Hussie should have been able to pull everything together himself, like he did at the end of Act 5. He's the one who intentionally created all of these plot elements, who placed many instances of foreshadowing, who knew what all of this was supposed to lead up to. He's the author, not me, not random people on Tumblr. I want to know where his story was going, but there's simply no way for us to know—unless his epilogue is fairly plot-heavy, even though epilogues are generally just about how the characters are doing. Here's the thing. Maybe it is bad storytelling. Maybe it was a poor idea, a mistake. Either way, I respect his gumption in pursuing nonstandard choices in his fiction crafting. I think he's proven he at least has the right to write the kind of story he wants, after the various other accomplishments he's... uh, accomplished. From what we've seen of Act 5, he surely COULD have chosen to wrap up the loose threads in Act 6, even leave things "uncertain" but easily decipherable with a little thought. But that isn't what he chose to do. And personally, I think there is something interesting in their being more challenge to it. I disagree with what you say, I think it IS possible to figure out a right answer, but it won't be easy. Either way, this IS the story Andrew wanted to tell, beginning to end, with maybe an epilogue to cap things off which I doubt is going to add much to the discussion. It was a lengthy improvisation act, with starting and ending parameters set even if the audience didn't know it at the time, and with plenty of interaction with the readership. The story started with the readers controlling the story live with reader commands; fitting that it should end with the readers helping shape the ending too. Speaking of the epilogue... So, predictions for the Epilogue? Personally, I can not see it ending any way other than someone boggling vacantly at these shenanigans, some kid from a new species playing the game, and/or they cycle of stupidity being complete. I am hoping for Fedora Freak boggling and a Squiddle playing. Hrrrmn, good question. I did think some kind of MSPA reader "colossal waste of time" would be pretty fitting and probable. I'm not expecting to be able to see into the "future", i.e. John and gang or anything. Possibly another glimpse into dreambubbles to see what their fate is, whether they get to keep living on or not. I guess I could bite the bullet and jump right to one of the LEAST likely possibilities, but it is hypothetically possible he'd make a walkaround ending. But I wouldn't count on it. |
|
loading
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
Posts: 435
|
Post by loading on Apr 17, 2016 4:39:07 GMT
I liked the cue ball thing, I just didn't have much to say about it. You covered every implication resulting from your theory, and it all made sense.
|
|
|
|
Post by butternutpumpkin on Apr 17, 2016 4:52:27 GMT
I was hoping for some plot holes to be filled in and maybe, the very last shot with Beta Kids: Pose as a team. The world is real. Yeah I was hoping something like that.  I've noticed recently that Dave and Jade seem to stay together, but John and Rose tend to stay separate and do their own thing, which is really shown in the future universe. Hopefully the epilogue will cover this. |
|
|
|
Post by Blaperile on Apr 17, 2016 8:45:42 GMT
Another point about this: what was the point of destroying the Green Sun? Why did Echidna apparently ask this of Muse!Calliope? There wasn't much reason for anybody to do it at this point in the story the way there was a reason for Dave and Rose to try to destroy it back when Bec Noir was still running around unchecked. You could've easily cut those parts out of Act 7 and we wouldn't have lost anything but some really cool visuals. The most popular theory is that the Black Hole would serve to pocket Lord English in. I think that makes a lot of sense, seeing as it was clearly Alternate Calliope's goal to stop Lord English. Whether it worked is a whole different matter obviously. I think the thing I don't like about how everyone's saying it's up to us to interpret the ending how we want to is Homestuck never worked like that up until the ending. We've definitely had some symbolism we could analyze (Homestuck as a growing up story, the gnostic themes, etc.) but it was never like one of those surreal movies or animes where you were never quite sure what was literally going on and what was just in someone's head. The closest we came were some trippy moments with the dreambubbles when they first became a thing but other than that...if it had always been like this, where it set up all these mysteries just to not address them, I could see it. But as it stands, it's really incongruent with the rest of the comic. Personally, I think the most important part is to consider the following: Homestuck has always been a story driven by its readers. The readers gave the first commands to get the adventure going and even named the characters. Then all of our ideas and theories influenced the story to certain degrees. And all throughout the story readers have been supplying art and music, and the last stretch of the comic eventually becomes completely drawn by readers. Now, I think it makes sense that the ending continues to follow this pattern: readers decide what the true ending is to the story, whether it's a happy ending or a bad ending. Homestuck's always provided enough possibilities for the readers to speculate, and now the ending just continues in that pattern. But like before, I think Andrew will probably "solve" most of these important issues anyway, by giving more clues in future stories. They help solve the issues around this, while at the same time providing us with new stories to speculate over. Oh, and I remembered another loose or semi-loose thread. The Skaian clouds. They've been a framing device since the retcon, but we haven't seen who was watching them. The most likely candidate is one of the Calliopes, but that wouldn't be a surprise....so why not show that? In fact, why even show the clouds at all if you're not going to do anything with them? I think that just like Terezi's remem8ering, the Ringless GO Kids, the Masterpiece, the Alternate John who met up with Typheus, and the ominous ending to Collide are simply meant to provide fuel to more speculation on how the puzzle fits together. Personally, I think nobody was actually watching those clouds and it simply served as a cool way to transition between scenes. Or, like soeroah suggested, some random Prospitians watched them. Remember that they all had prophecies about the Genesis Frog needing to be taken through broken glass to the B2 session? They need to have seen all of that in the clouds at some point. Also, I don't know if this is a loose end or a mistake but...how did Muse!Calliope get out of her bubble to destroy the Green Sun? Or did she not? What was the deal with that? I like to think that the cracks effected the bubbles so much that it became possible for ghosts to exit the bubbles through the cracks, into the Furthest Ring. I think the only other things in Homestuck that has been this polarizing were Vriska and the Retcon. And I hated both those things, but I made peace with them. Plus Davekat and A1 Trolls. Here's anew question I want to propse: Assuming that either the epilogue never comes or that it's really shitty, how do you feel about the comic? Do you hate it now? Love it despite these flaws? Moving forward, what do you think Homestuck will mean to you? For now, Homestuck is still the best story I've read in my life, and I imagine it will continue to be in the forseeable future. I've never seen characters, plot, and worlds that have been so engaging as Homestuck's. I've never seen a story that utilizes its presence on the internet so well to use so many different aspects that the Internet has to offer. I've never seen such a unique relationship between author and readers. I've never seen a story that is this meta. I've never seen a story that has played with my feelings so much, that has made me feel joy, sadness, surprise, and more. I've never seen a story that invites me so much to continue thinking about it every single day. -How, when and for which reason the Masterpiece happens?
JOHN: aside from fixing the time line, there's another benefit to my new power.
JOHN: once we all decide we're ready to fight him, i can just zap us all right to him.
JOHN: we could take him by surprise again.
JOHN: i really doubt he'd be able to handle us if we all clobbered him at once!-Why Red Door, leading to universe C, at the last moment was replaced by the White Door, that leads to (  ??)? White is red plus green plus blue, so it's probably to symbolize that this is the end of not just the B2 session (red), but also the true end for the B1 session (green) and the A2 session (blue). Created in A2 session, sent to Alternia and grew up there, entered the A2 session, went to the ectobiology meteor, got captured by Terezi, spent 3 years on that meteor, got trapped inside a fridge for what was left of the B2 session, entered the black hole and presumably ended up on Earth in the far future, broke out of the fridge, raised Calliope and Caliborn, entered Caliborn's session, presumably got sliced in half by Dirk, and got sucked into Lil Cal. |
|
cookiefonster
Dead
TAKE US THEIR FRESH JIMMY
Posts: 723
Pronouns: he/him/his
|
Post by cookiefonster on Apr 17, 2016 10:19:19 GMT
As for epilogue predictons, I have a whole card of predictions. It's largely about characters getting their own moments and various plot point resolutions. |
|
|
|
Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 17, 2016 11:19:40 GMT
I think he's proven he at least has the right to write the kind of story he wants, after the various other accomplishments he's... uh, accomplished. He absolutely has that right. Just as we have the right to criticize it, or be suspicious of it. The most popular theory is that the Black Hole would serve to pocket Lord English in. I think that makes a lot of sense, seeing as it was clearly Alternate Calliope's goal to stop Lord English. Whether it worked is a whole different matter obviously. Uh, what? How was it clearly Muse!Calliope's goal to stop Lord English? She didn't show the slightest interest in that. There isn't even a hint of that in any of her dialogue, and if the Green Sun didn't pocket Lord English (which would be kind of thematically weird, given 'English' is the spin put on the cue ball and not a ball to be pocketed) all it would do would be to possibly take away his First Guardian powers, which he didn't seem to need to use much at all anyway. Personally, I think the most important part is to consider the following: Homestuck has always been a story driven by its readers. The readers gave the first commands to get the adventure going and even named the characters. Then all of our ideas and theories influenced the story to certain degrees. And all throughout the story readers have been supplying art and music, and the last stretch of the comic eventually becomes completely drawn by readers. Now, I think it makes sense that the ending continues to follow this pattern: readers decide what the true ending is to the story, whether it's a happy ending or a bad ending. Homestuck's always provided enough possibilities for the readers to speculate, and now the ending just continues in that pattern. Yes it's provided possibilities, but it always gave us the objective answer to the questions it posed, at least until very, very recently. It gave us Jade's precognitive abilities and let us speculate about what the deal could be with those until it was revealed how she got her information. It gave us the trolls and let us speculate on what they're deal was until they were revealed to be former players, who were also aliens, who got their game seriously fucked up by something from the kids' session. We were left to speculate what that something could be, until it was revealed it was Vriska's interference and Bec Noir. We were left to speculate as to what the deal was with John's new blue pajamas until it was revealed that John got them by going God Tier. We were left to speculate as to who Jade's pen pal could be until the scratch was unveiled. We were left to speculate what the point of S***b even was until Aradia revealed it to us. We were left to speculate about Lord English for multiple chapters before the cherub race was introduced to us. Homestuck has never been open ended and never asked a question it didn't seek to answer, which is why it makes no sense that it should start with the ending. I think that just like Terezi's remem8ering, the Ringless GO Kids, the Masterpiece, the Alternate John who met up with Typheus, and the ominous ending to Collide are simply meant to provide fuel to more speculation on how the puzzle fits together. Personally, I think nobody was actually watching those clouds and it simply served as a cool way to transition between scenes. But there's no point to showing any of that then. Hussie knew he was going into the home stretch, so why open up all these possibilities right before the end? He himself said he had to rush to finish Collide. If he hadn't even bothered with things like Terezi's Remem8er or the Skaian clouds, he would've had more time to work on stuff that actually mattered. So what was the point? I like to think that the cracks effected the bubbles so much that it became possible for ghosts to exit the bubbles through the cracks, into the Furthest Ring. I like to think it had something to do with her being a God Tier Muse of Space myself, as those are apparently powerful enough to destroy the Green Fucking Sun. But it still kind of bugs me a little. Eh. Whatever the deal was, I just would've liked it to have been addressed, because as it is I'm just kind of confused as to what even happened and whether it was in a bubble or not. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 12:46:39 GMT
It still bugs me, but okay, fair enough. -Why Red Door, leading to universe C, at the last moment was replaced by the White Door, that leads to ( ??)? White is red plus green plus blue, so it's probably to symbolize that this is the end of not just the B2 session (red), but also the true end for the B1 session (green) and the A2 session (blue). Things have not only symbolic, but also practical meaning. This is a valid explanation, but there are others and they are as much valid as this one. Created in A2 session, sent to Alternia and grew up there, entered the A2 session, went to the ectobiology meteor, got captured by Terezi, spent 3 years on that meteor, got trapped inside a fridge for what was left of the B2 session, entered the black hole and presumably ended up on Earth in the far future, broke out of the fridge, raised Calliope and Caliborn, entered Caliborn's session, presumably got sliced in half by Dirk, and got sucked into Lil Cal. We can only guess what the deal with that black hole is, because it's so random and nonsensical it almost physically hurts. Also, pre-retcon, anyone? I think he's proven he at least has the right to write the kind of story he wants, after the various other accomplishments he's... uh, accomplished. He absolutely has that right. Just as we have the right to criticize it, or be suspicious of it. This. So much for this. |
|
|
|
Post by Strawhat Luffy on Apr 17, 2016 13:50:24 GMT
I have very low expectations for the epilogue.
I think it'll probably show what happened to some side characters after the end and/or provide extra dialogue between protagonists, which is what people want but won't fix the ending for me.
Problem Sleuth's ending didn't need to be fixed. This one does. If Hussie pulls a PS epilogue, it won't be.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2016 13:54:11 GMT
You know, Caliborn practically deserves to be the protagonist of the story.
He really does. Both sets of kids used the jujus they came across to skip over their personal growth and undo their mistakes. Caliborn, at most, used the crowbar to shut Andrew up and break his clock at the end. He's really the only character to get through Sburb and claim his reward honestly. He also had to work the hardest to get it. You can hate him for being a jerkass, but you can't deny that he keeps his shit together better than the main cast.
Villain is better at heroes' job than heroes themselves, how fucked up is that?
|
|
|
|
Post by alleywaycreeper on Apr 17, 2016 14:18:48 GMT
I have very low expectations for the epilogue. I think it'll probably show what happened to some side characters after the end and/or provide extra dialogue between protagonists, which is what people want but won't fix the ending for me. Problem Sleuth's ending didn't need to be fixed. This one does. If Hussie pulls a PS epilogue, it won't be. The thing that gives me hope is that the lead up to the ending was so counterintuitive. If you know you're ending the story when you haven't cleared up enough stuff, you don't draw attention to said stuff, and you don't add more stuff to clear up. Hussie's not perfect, but he's smart enough to know that, so why spend the last sub-act not tying anything up and in fact introducing more things to tie up? I think one big mistake I made in trying to figure out what was going to happen before Act 7 is I vastly underestimated Hussie's ability and tendency to draw things the fuck out. I should've known better. |
|
|
|
Post by melonlord on Apr 17, 2016 15:53:58 GMT
That's...not a reason though. That's a plot hook, which Hussie could have used later, but didn't. The whole reason behind going back to fight caliborn would have been to defeat him before he becomes powerful and invincible, right? But now they've already defeated (?) his powerful and invincible form, and are seemingly about to go claim their reward. What possible reason do they have to go back now? Aside from maybe John's weird "sense". |
|
loading
Raise of the Conductor's Baton
Posts: 435
|
Post by loading on Apr 17, 2016 16:50:59 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by therationaldove on Apr 17, 2016 17:30:38 GMT
Couldn't the kids that got trapped just have been doomed versions of the kids? like, why did they have to be Alpha Timeline?
|
|
thecrystalship
Mr. Snoozyprince Mcsleepypants
sushi guro
Posts: 174
Pronouns: she/her/hers
|
Post by thecrystalship on Apr 17, 2016 17:49:41 GMT
Couldn't the kids that got trapped just have been doomed versions of the kids? like, why did they have to be Alpha Timeline? Because not many versions of John have the retcon power. The reasonable possibilities are that it was this one or this one. The latter may be more reasonable than the former, as he wouldn't have to go through the trouble of reviving everyone via retcons, like the alpha John did, although he would still have to find a way to free Jade and Jane from their hypnosis. And it might be a bit contrived to punish any of these losers for alpha John's mistakes, but I guess it would still be his fault, he just wouldn't know it. |
|
